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Poll. Should the 'Invisible Combat Round' of IE Games Return ?

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Poll: Should PoE remain round-free or should it have 'hidden rounds' where everyone's actions are limited, like in the old IE games ? (78 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you want the 'inv. combat round' of IE Games to return ?

  1. Yes. I want Combat in PoE designed based on inv. combat rounds that determine everyone's actions. (25 votes [32.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.05%

  2. No. I prefer the new system, re-balanced & tweaked until it can be made to work. (53 votes [67.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.95%

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#61
prodigydancer

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Nah I don't like that, I'd prefer a bar underneath them like this

Indeed. It's essentially a progress bar and horizontal progress bars are more convenient.



#62
Karkarov

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Nah I don't like that, I'd prefer a bar underneath them like this

Indeed. It's essentially a progress bar and horizontal progress bars are more convenient.

Don't concur, with this type of bar you want it to be longer, because the longer it is the more accurate it can be tracking progress.  That said if you had to do it Horizontal I would put it on top as that requires less UI mucking about, you just have to move buff icons up like 10 pixels.

 

Like so!

 

ibd6FPXAhcZaxy.png


Edited by Karkarov, 02 November 2014 - 06:59 AM.


#63
Sensuki

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On the top? :/  What kind of design sensibility is that? In pretty much all games that have character portraits, bars like that are always at the side or bottom of portraits. 



#64
Karkarov

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On the top? :/  What kind of design sensibility is that? In pretty much all games that have character portraits, bars like that are always at the side or bottom of portraits. 

Not necessarily, it also it requires less "looking away" if they are on top.  It additionally remains consistent with the current action bar which is "on top" of your character.  Most games that are seriously about action bars and timers these days either have the action meters completely detached from portraits or oriented based on the party portrait locations.  If at the top of the screen on bottom, if at bottom on top.



#65
Sensuki

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Those things are more of a peripheral vision thing tbh and I definitely think they'd be better at the bottom - but that's not surprising because we seem to have the opposite opinions on many of those Main HUD things.

#66
constantine

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Whether top or bottom, let s hope they include it somewhere there as it would be much, much more helpful !
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#67
Mr. Magniloquent

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Personally I think putting the action meter on the portrait would help as it would allow it to be easier to read and more accurate due to it's increased size and removal from the middle of all the combat insanity.  Would it fix the "speed", no, but it sure would be a nice change.

 

This is something I too have wanted for some time. Moving the action bar onto portraits (or just beneath), then enlarging those portraits and moving them to the side. I truly cannot understand why they have gone with a bottom oriented UI.



#68
Karkarov

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Personally I think putting the action meter on the portrait would help as it would allow it to be easier to read and more accurate due to it's increased size and removal from the middle of all the combat insanity.  Would it fix the "speed", no, but it sure would be a nice change.

 

This is something I too have wanted for some time. Moving the action bar onto portraits (or just beneath), then enlarging those portraits and moving them to the side. I truly cannot understand why they have gone with a bottom oriented UI.

That's what most games do these days, ether bottom or top oriented UI, most of them go bottom these days.  There is more room to go from right to left and vice versa than bottom to top as well which is why most large UI elements are horizontally layed out.  It is just easier to fit your UI in there.



#69
wanderon

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Personally I think putting the action meter on the portrait would help as it would allow it to be easier to read and more accurate due to it's increased size and removal from the middle of all the combat insanity.  Would it fix the "speed", no, but it sure would be a nice change.

 

This is something I too have wanted for some time. Moving the action bar onto portraits (or just beneath), then enlarging those portraits and moving them to the side. I truly cannot understand why they have gone with a bottom oriented UI.

That's what most games do these days, ether bottom or top oriented UI, most of them go bottom these days.  There is more room to go from right to left and vice versa than bottom to top as well which is why most large UI elements are horizontally layed out.  It is just easier to fit your UI in there.

 

 

It's all about you wide screens see what you've made us do! ;)



#70
Karkarov

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It's all about you wide screens see what you've made us do! ;)

In fact only game I know of coming out soon with a "down the side" UI element that starts at the top is everyone on this forums favorite... Dragon Age: Inquisition.  Even it puts "most" of it's UI on the bottom edge of the screen though.  The only part on the "side" is the party health meters.



#71
Sensuki

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Serpent in the Staglands.

#72
Seari

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Action meter on portraits is a beyond horrible idea.


Edited by Seari, 02 November 2014 - 10:37 PM.


#73
Sedrefilos

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I replayed BG 2 earlyer this year and it felt almost as great as the 1st time I played it. And it was annoying at the exact points it was back then: combat and rest. When I first played it I didn't know there were rounds. I was clicking for the character to drink the potion and they'll be swinging swords just to miss for the 100th time or just stand there staring at the monsters until the magical 6 seconds would pass. I was pushing it and pushing it again until something else happened (like character died) and the frustration went up!

Wether one prefers the round based system or true real time is matter of oppinion. But seeing that not a single game has ever used this system again, especially Bioware games, shows it is not that popular. And thankfully most people don't like it. And thanakfully there is no chance they'll go with this system in PoE.



#74
Sensuki

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But seeing that not a single game has ever used this system again, especially Bioware games, shows it is not that popular.

 

All games that used a D&D system used a 'per-unit' round. Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 both used them. You will be clicking and clicking just like you were in the IE games to drink a potion, except it might even possibly take a very long time to drink a potion if you're wearing heavy armor.

 

The length of time between actions will in many cases be even longer in Pillars of Eternity, the only difference is that actions are not determined by an apr/6 second time division, instead they are measured in direct seconds. It baffles me how people don't seem to understand this.


Edited by Sensuki, 03 November 2014 - 01:49 AM.


#75
Sedrefilos

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If a character acts in that many seconds depending of their armor, ability etc and another acts differently during that time because of their armor, abilities etc, this is true real time not turn based.

 

And starting posts about how the game would be better with the IE combat style isn't even constructive because the game won't take that direction whatever several people in these forums say.


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#76
Sensuki

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The IE games were real time. The only difference is that amount of actions units could perform were determined by a different method. 

If your second statement is aimed at me then you obviously didn't read my first post in this thread, go check page one.



#77
Lephys

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Because the lack of synchronized action makes it chaotic. The best UI in the known universe can't fix that.


Asynchronous action does not inherently equal chaos. Everyone in The Hunger Games started at the same distance from the Cornucopia, and all got to start performing actions at the same time, so obviously what occurred at the start of every Hunger Games was the opposite of chaos.

Nope. 8P

I went first (because of asynchronization), and knocked you to the ground before you got to attack. Looks to me like that's less chaotic than both of us scrambling to attack one another at the exact same time and wondering who's technically going to land an attack first.

I'm sorry, but round-based "real-time movement + non-real-time combat" is just the worst part of turn-based combat tossed into a blender along with the worst part of real-time combat. "Oh, it's nice that you didn't really ever have to worry about pausing but about once every 6 seconds" is the only real benefit it provided, as compared to other options.

That said, that doesn't mean that a fully real-time, asynchronous system is somehow immune to chaos, and it doesn't mean that PoE's current system doesn't have some chaos going on, or that we should have to pause every millisecond. It's just not the fault of everything (but movement, for some reason) not being married to a metronome.
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#78
constantine

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And starting posts about how the game would be better with the IE combat style isn't even constructive because the game won't take that direction whatever several people in these forums say.


I don t care if it's not constructive, it's a complain. A loud one that is.

They built their game on the foundation of good old IE games, they are a ton influenced by D&D system & classes-spells-creatures, but on the key points they realise they want to differ & improve.

Well kind Sirs, your idea of improvement wields only mediocre results & will keep PoE from being a grand game. You ve shown arrogance where you should show respect.

Good luck fixing your mess now.
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#79
Mr. Magniloquent

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Well kind Sirs, your idea of improvement wields only mediocre results & will keep PoE from being a grand game. You ve shown arrogance where you should show respect.

Good luck fixing your mess now.

 

This system is far from being a total mess, and more near to functioning ideally than not. A simple standardization of all the activation and recovery times incurred by abilities and all of this is resolved. You choose your upper limits and your lower limits, then align everything in between those two points in relation to each other. That's not as much work as it sounds. I get a strong sense that many abilities were designed ad hoc--in strong contrast to the meticulous and unified design of weapons and armor. That's an annoying problem to have to go back and revisit, but not a difficult one to solve. If I'm wrong about the root of this problem, I will most certainly eat crow, but I don't feel that I'm incorrect on this.


Edited by Mr. Magniloquent, 04 November 2014 - 08:41 PM.

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