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Immortalis

Combat XP - What Just Happened..?

What Just Happened  

280 members have voted

  1. 1. What Sources of Xp Do you think are justified?

    • Combat
      152
    • Quests
      264
    • 'Objectives' (Finishing Part of a Quest)
      233
    • Lock Picking / Trap Disabling
      118
    • Exploration
      207
    • Specific Combat Scenarios - Bosses or Special Encounters
      197
    • Bestiary Unlocking (With Limited XP To Be Gained)
      158


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Just because they are trying to make combat more tactical doesn't necessarily mean combat is the primary focus of the game it only suggests they want the combat portion of the game to work well.

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Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

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Just because they are trying to make combat more tactical doesn't necessarily mean combat is the primary focus of the game it only suggests they want the combat portion of the game to work well.

They're putting way too much work into it for it not to be a combat focused game. If combat weren't the focus then combat wouldn't have been a big priority for Obsidian. They would have just built something that is simple and fast to save development time for more important things.

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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Combat is the primary resolution mechanic in the game. Many quests will have non-combat options, but there's still a lot of fighting to be done. Dunno what reviews people have been reading but I recall Josh saying that if you don't like combat, then maybe PE isn't for you.

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I clicked on all options. I want as many sources of XP as possible :D

Does that make me that special snowflake?

Well, there are only 128 kinds of snowflakes in this poll's world anyway ;)

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Just because they are trying to make combat more tactical doesn't necessarily mean combat is the primary focus of the game it only suggests they want the combat portion of the game to work well.

They're putting way too much work into it for it not to be a combat focused game. If combat weren't the focus then combat wouldn't have been a big priority for Obsidian. They would have just built something that is simple and fast to save development time for more important things.

 

 

Maybe we just have different ideas of what "combat focused game" means - I never said combat wasn't an important part of the game - of course it is - but it's not the ONLY part nor necessarily the most important part depending on your playstyle.


Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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Just because they are trying to make combat more tactical doesn't necessarily mean combat is the primary focus of the game it only suggests they want the combat portion of the game to work well.

They're putting way too much work into it for it not to be a combat focused game. If combat weren't the focus then combat wouldn't have been a big priority for Obsidian. They would have just built something that is simple and fast to save development time for more important things.

 

 

Diablo has a way more simplistic combat system then PoE and that is a combat focused game.

 

Seems to me that you think that if a game has combat, that means it's a combat focused game. I don't think that how the majority of gamers categorize a "combat focused" game.

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Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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I didn't get that from what he was saying, not sure how you did. Pretty sure he meant that they wouldn't have put as much effort into the combat systems if combat wasn't the main focus. Not sure that's done them much good though, some of the new systems just don't seem to be working - good ideas but bad implementations so far. Still, they have about 5-6 months to improve them.

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Seems to me that you think that if a game has combat, that means it's a combat focused game. I don't think that how the majority of gamers categorize a "combat focused" game.

 

Then you have mistaken my sentiment. I have listed my reasons; none of them were "combat exists". If a game has:

 

A) Many mandatory fights.

 

B) A class system in which how they relate to combat being the primary distinguishing features.

 

C) A development where a great deal more effort was put into combat than needed.

 

D) Dungeons that are teeming with enemies. One of the game's selling points is a mega dungeon filled with enemies.

 

E) The story not relating much to gameplay. Example- OE doesn't care about how the lore relates to the attribute system. Their primary concern is the combat.

 

F) A lead developer who says that he doesn't want players to avoid combat and is altering the game to make combat more appealing.

 

I think it's safe to say said game is combat focused.

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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Diablo has a way more simplistic combat system then PoE and that is a combat focused game.

 

Seems to me that you think that if a game has combat, that means it's a combat focused game. I don't think that how the majority of gamers categorize a "combat focused" game.

 

 

 

You are kidding, right? Diablo is a single char game. And each char has more active skills than any one char in POE. 

Edited by Captain Shrek

"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."

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I didn't get that from what he was saying, not sure how you did. Pretty sure he meant that they wouldn't have put as much effort into the combat systems if combat wasn't the main focus. Not sure that's done them much good though, some of the new systems just don't seem to be working - good ideas but bad implementations so far. Still, they have about 5-6 months to improve them.

This is the primary reason, but the sheer magnitude and necessity of combat also suggest it is very combat focused. It's not that it exists; it's that combat is everywhere.


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Im gonna say first off, finally a decent poll.

i voted quests, quest section, exploration, and special boss/scenarios.

im still iffy about exploration and i may delete it because i really cant thinknof a reason for it to be there of u are gonna be rewarded with special boss/scenario and/or loot so i think i will delete that.

traps/lockpicking...no. as much as i am enjoying no combat exp in this game, i think trap/lock exp would be totally worse. Because then u feel "cheated" if u unlock/disabled it instead of using it against ya or feel compelled to have someone specced in that for the sole reason of that extra exp. Basically same boat if not worse than combat exp imho.

i voted the same thing. for exploration it would be to go to places where the lore skill would be useful.

say you explore a cave and there is nothing in it except for a faded mural. with the apropriate level of lore skill you may be able to spot and decipher a code hidden in the mural on how to access a hidden chamber. as soon as you enter the chamber you get exploration xp

xp for boss encounters is self explainatory, as long as it is a strictly combat encounter and not part of quest with multiple solutions

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Diablo has a way more simplistic combat system then PoE and that is a combat focused game.

 

Seems to me that you think that if a game has combat, that means it's a combat focused game. I don't think that how the majority of gamers categorize a "combat focused" game.

 

 

 

You are kidding, right? Diablo is a single char game. And each char has more active skills than any one char in POE. 

 

 

Regardless of the number of active skills Diablo has, it's combat system is not complex.


Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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So how do you define complex, pray?


"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."

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Diablo has a way more simplistic combat system then PoE and that is a combat focused game.

 

Seems to me that you think that if a game has combat, that means it's a combat focused game. I don't think that how the majority of gamers categorize a "combat focused" game.

 

 

 

You are kidding, right? Diablo is a single char game. And each char has more active skills than any one char in POE. 

 

 

I disagree.. sorry.. If PoE only allowed you to control one character then you may be on to something.

 

The fact that you control an entire party with different skills and attributes that bring different functionality to a fight and that most difficult encounters will require strategy and patience to win..

 

Diablo 1 / 2 / 3 are all about quantity over quality of enemies.. The amount of abilities do not make it more difficult to play or add more depth to it.

Edited by Immortalis

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Diablo has a way more simplistic combat system then PoE and that is a combat focused game.

 

Seems to me that you think that if a game has combat, that means it's a combat focused game. I don't think that how the majority of gamers categorize a "combat focused" game.

 

 

 

You are kidding, right? Diablo is a single char game. And each char has more active skills than any one char in POE. 

 

 

I disagree.. sorry.. If PoE only allowed you to control one character then you may be on to something.

 

The fact that you control an entire party with different skills and attributes that bring different functionality to a fight and that most difficult encounters will require strategy and patience to win..

 

Diablo 1 / 2 / 3 are all about quantity over quality of enemies.. The amount of abilities do not make it more difficult to play or add more depth to it.

 

At least Diablo has a fair amount of strategy to it. Got to make sure you raise the right attributes & wear the right armor. I don't like anything past Diablo 1, but it's not as simplistic as some people suggest.


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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I quite enjoyed Diablo 1 and 2.  I didn't much care for World of Diablo, however.

 

I don't know if the game will be 'combat centric' or not.  I agree that it won't forgo everything else for the sake of combat, but Sawyer has always seemed more interested in systems more than storytelling to me.  I thought New Vegas did a great job of accomplishing both great combat and great storytelling, so it's not like I'm complaining.  Combat will be a huge part of PoE even if it's not the main thrust.  ...And of course there will be storytelling and character progression and the like.

 

I don't think a game must have kill XP because it's combat centric, but that's a different discussion.


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Personally, I don't mind new and different xp systems, it just makes random combat much less interesting. Especially the random encounters with wild animals who don't even have a reason to attack a group of humanoids.


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Combat xp is surprisingly low. Right now it's barely beating lock-picking/ trap-disabling.

 

I guess it just help to illustrate where the forum is coming from, which looks like oldschool pnp players. the BG games games had combat xp, and I don't see how it detracted from it at all. Hell, combat xp is pretty much a staple mechanic in video game rpg's, regardless if it's story-based or hack-n-slash, DnD based or not.

 

I saw a few people base their votes off of how they roll their pnp games. That's fine and all, but the expression, "it looks good on paper" kinda comes to mind. PnP games ave their own elements and aspects, and rulesets that work well in that environment, video games are a different beast. Considering that PoE isn't even based off of a PnP game, makes it even more bizarre people are using that mindset to guide their decisions.


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"Maybe they can make a loot item called "combat." Then, you could collect it, and turn it in to someone for an XP reward."

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First, could it just be that the people who didn't vote for it is tired of mindless grinding?  If I want that, I'll play diablo.  grindxp is not a staple in rpgs, and many of them have moved away from it (bethesda games for example).  Second, it appears that Joshua is focused on limiting degenerate gameplay.  grindxp is definitely part of that.  Third, why are rpgs not allowed to evolve?

 

What I can't understand is people who actually like to mindlessly grind.  It requires as much depth as a slot machine.

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First, could it just be that the people who didn't vote for it is tired of mindless grinding? 

 

Again.. A Gross over exaggeration of those games.. "Grind XP" never entered peoples vocabulary until MMO's became popular. You never had to grind anything in any IE game unless you wanted to.. which IMO was stupid/pointless.

Edited by Immortalis
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From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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First, could it just be that the people who didn't vote for it is tired of mindless grinding?

 

Perhaps, but since PoE is following in the footsteps of the IE games, and the IE games didn't present combat as a"grindy" experience, it's kind of a moot point...

 

grindxp is not a staple in rpgs, and many of them have moved away from it (bethesda games for example). Second, it appears that Joshua is focused on limiting degenerate gameplay.  grindxp is definitely part of that.

Again, a moot point since IE games didn't have it to begin with.

 

Third, why are rpgs not allowed to evolve?

 

Well then you'd have to argue that a non-xp combat system is actually evolving.

 

Edited by H0RSE
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artastrophe's custom BG2 portraits   --   preview

 

"Maybe they can make a loot item called "combat." Then, you could collect it, and turn it in to someone for an XP reward."

- Lephys

 

 

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First, could it just be that the people who didn't vote for it is tired of mindless grinding?

 

Perhaps, but since PoE is following in the footsteps of the IE games, and the IE games didn't present combat as a"grindy" experience, it's kind of a moot point...

 

grindxp is not a staple in rpgs, and many of them have moved away from it (bethesda games for example). Second, it appears that Joshua is focused on limiting degenerate gameplay.  grindxp is definitely part of that.

Again, a moot point since IE games didn't have it to begin with.

 

Third, why are rpgs not allowed to evolve?

 

Well then you'd have to argue that a non-xp combat system is actually evolving.

 

 

I have to wonder why combat is being singled out as being grind-xp? 


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Namutree, no... I am not saying combat in of itself is grindxp.  What I am saying is that getting xp for every mob is grindxp.  Having a system where killing everything on the map is grinding.

 

Horse, yes grindxp has been a staple of IE games since the beginning.  You did your best to commit genocide to the map, to get the most out of the xp as possible as levels meant more power.  I know you could do it w/o it but you either did it w/o it or went in whole hog.  PoE isn't necessarily following in the steps, it is taking in what they considered the best parts of the game and focus on that.  Third, moving away from grindxp is a game evolution, evolution also includes losing things.  What it moves to or focuses on is irrelevant.

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Horse, yes grindxp has been a staple of IE games since the beginning.  You did your best to commit genocide to the map, to get the most out of the xp as possible as levels meant more power.  I know you could do it w/o it but you either did it w/o it or went in whole hog.  PoE isn't necessarily following in the steps, it is taking in what they considered the best parts of the game and focus on that. 

 

I'm gonna have to disagree with you. I've never grinded xp from combat in IE games, even when fully exploring areas. If I encountered enemies, I fought them, but I never actively went out with the purpose of killing enemies for xp, which is what grinding is, which is why I don't see the combat xp in IE games as "grinding," at least not in the popular usage of the term.

 

What I am saying is that getting xp for every mob is grindxp.  Having a system where killing everything on the map is grinding.

 

That isn't what grinding is... Grinding involves purpose and intent. Simply getting xp for kills is not grinding. Killing with the intent of getting xp (or loot, or mats, etc.) is. Also, grinding tends to exist where other mechanics favor it, like games with lots of mobs, or respawning enemies. It's also typically done solo, which is why the term "grinding" is so synonymous with MMO's, because it works really well in that environment. Where does this happen in IE games? 

 

Third, moving away from grindxp is a game evolution, evolution also includes losing things.  What it moves to or focuses on is irrelevant.

 

 

it's a subjective topic. You nor no one else can factually prove that it is an evolutionary step in rpg gaming, just as other's can't prove that it isn't. Mind you, I am using "evolution" as in "improvement" not as in "changing" or "adapting." Besides, I wasn't talking about "grindxp," I was talking about getting xp for combat in general, which is really what the poll was asking. The "grinding" moniker was added later by opponents of the mechanic.

 

If your argument is that moving away from any sort of xp for combat is a game evolution, you better have one hell of a compelling argument, because that mechanic has been staple for rpg video games for so long, and for so many different games, it's practically a rule.

 

 

 

Edited by H0RSE
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artastrophe's custom BG2 portraits   --   preview

 

"Maybe they can make a loot item called "combat." Then, you could collect it, and turn it in to someone for an XP reward."

- Lephys

 

 

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What I am saying is that getting xp for every mob is grindxp. 

This is what I was asking about. Why is getting xp for every mob grind-xp exclusively? If I get xp for quests I might be inclined to go and look for every quest in an area just to get xp. Isn't that grinding? If I scour a dungeon looking for every trap to disarm isn't that grinding?

 

 

EDIT: I too feel that since kill-xp is being replaced with something rather than simply being axed that the system is evolving; although there are no assurances it will evolve into something better.

Edited by Namutree
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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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