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Combat XP - What Just Happened..?


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Poll: What Just Happened (280 member(s) have cast votes)

What Sources of Xp Do you think are justified?

  1. Combat (152 votes [11.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.44%

  2. Quests (264 votes [19.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.86%

  3. 'Objectives' (Finishing Part of a Quest) (233 votes [17.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.53%

  4. Lock Picking / Trap Disabling (118 votes [8.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.88%

  5. Exploration (207 votes [15.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.58%

  6. Specific Combat Scenarios - Bosses or Special Encounters (197 votes [14.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.82%

  7. Bestiary Unlocking (With Limited XP To Be Gained) (158 votes [11.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.89%

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#381
Stun

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* Except it was broken...

It was NOT. If something so fundamental to gameplay as the leveling system was broken, none of the IE games would have seen the light of day, let alone become celebrated, genre-defining, all-time classics whose very name mentions can generate wildly successful kickstarters 15 years later.

Feel free to put a lid on the gross hyperbole now.

Edited by Stun, 27 October 2014 - 07:04 AM.

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#382
Stun

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And for people saying "but there are no problems like that in BG2 or IWD since they added massive XP to quests to work around the XP-kill problem"... exactly; they already used went in this direction. Having to add such patches, workarounds. Wouldn't it be better than having to patch up a broken system, being bugprone and being overall a stitched together whole to have a system dedicated from the start to allow this gameplay.

What patches? What are you talking about?

Every single IE game shipped, on day one, with quest XP and kill XP in equal measure. Never were the two concepts ever separated, or ignored, or added later, or overly weighted to one side or the other.

Edited by Stun, 27 October 2014 - 07:05 AM.

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#383
Immortalis

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And for people saying "but there are no problems like that in BG2 or IWD since they added massive XP to quests to work around the XP-kill problem"... exactly; they already used went in this direction. Having to add such patches, workarounds. Wouldn't it be better than having to patch up a broken system, being bugprone and being overall a stitched together whole to have a system dedicated from the start to allow this gameplay.

What patches? What are you talking about?

Every single IE game shipped, on day one, with quest XP and kill XP in equal measure. Never were the two concepts ever separated, or ignored, or added later, or overly weighted to one side or the other.

 

 

Stun nails it on the head.

 

I Re-iterate my point.. do most non-combat xp supporters even know or have even played IE games? If not, then PoE wasn't made for you. Thanks for your support to make PoE happen but this is an IE inspired game.


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#384
Shevek

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Best XP system I have ever played with has to be Underrail's Oddity system. It rewards quests, exploration, combat, skill use and so on but it does so indirectly for the most part (quest xp being the smallest part of the xp pie by far). Read up on it - its fantastic. The best part of Underrail's system is that players can choose a standard xp system if they dont like the Oddity one.

If a small studio like Underrail's (for a while, it was a studio of one) can offer TWO xp systems (both awesome) why does PoE have trouble getting one right?

#385
Captain Shrek

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The Best Xp system is still inferior to the best system which is skill gain per-use disregarding grinding use (jumping up and down to increase atheletics). 



#386
wanderon

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Best XP system has probably not been made yet.....;)


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#387
Namutree

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The Best Xp system is still inferior to the best system which is skill gain per-use disregarding grinding use (jumping up and down to increase atheletics). 

Which game does that? The only one I can think of is elder scrolls, but jumping increases acrobatics; not athletics. 



#388
Captain Shrek

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The Best Xp system is still inferior to the best system which is skill gain per-use disregarding grinding use (jumping up and down to increase atheletics). 

Which game does that? The only one I can think of is elder scrolls, but jumping increases acrobatics; not athletics. 

 

 

Unfortunately, no game does it right :p. And yeah, that was a barb at Morrowind. I just forgot that it was acrobatics. Age of Decadence has a mechanism in place where killing someone (which is a big thing in that game) nets you one combat skill point. Same for civic encounters. That is the best one out there by my judgement. 


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#389
Caladian

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Immortalis, you aren't making a point.  You are stating your perception.  All of the IE games had lots of combat but it was also story driven.  Don't like the trapxp, but whatevs.  Joshua has clearly said that your style of combat xp was degenerate, and is NOT in PoE.  With every patch, things get better and better, knowing that with tweaks, they will be great in the end.



#390
Namutree

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 With every patch, things get better and better, knowing that with tweaks, they will be great in the end.

With each patch it gets closer and closer to combat xp. If the current trend continues; combat xp will be in the game.



#391
Sir Newbie

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 With every patch, things get better and better, knowing that with tweaks, they will be great in the end.

With each patch it gets closer and closer to combat xp. If the current trend continues; combat xp will be in the game.

 

;( ouch... Let's hope they will not take away the engagement mechanics and not drift away from their original intentions, i don't want a clone of DnD system.



#392
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 With every patch, things get better and better, knowing that with tweaks, they will be great in the end.

With each patch it gets closer and closer to combat xp. If the current trend continues; combat xp will be in the game.

 

;( ouch... Let's hope they will not take away the engagement mechanics and not drift away from their original intentions, i don't want a clone of DnD system.

 

Heh; if you'd have played the beta you might have a different opinion. Right now the engagement mechanics are causing trouble and very well may need to be removed as they are very flawed.



#393
AussieNick

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I haven't played the Beta so not sure about Bestiary xp. I voted yes just in case.

 

I sure as hell don't want Lockpicking/Trap xp though. I mean, getting decent treasure or not dying is already a pretty big benefit isn't it? 

 

I voted against combat xp because I like the idea of not being forced to murder people because of a game mechanic, but yes to major bosses and extra-tough encounters (I think the xp reward should be the same if you managed to talk/bluff/trick your way out of those encounters though)

 

Thanks for reading.



#394
Cantousent

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If they do, indeed, renege on their kickstarter assertions regarding XP, I certainly hope that Sawyer grows a set of hairy balls and comes into the forum to tell us personally.  The assumption has been that combat XP folks are the only bomb throwers in the crowd, and I would personally like to put that to the test.

 

While I don't tend to speak for people other than myself, I do note what other folks post and take them at their word.  There are those of us who don't mind combat receiving XP.  Have *never* minded combat receiving XP and have *always* expected that it should.  I just don't want incidental activities to yield XP.  I won't get into yet another rehash of arguments that have become more threadbare than my daddy's overstuffed armchair.  There's probably a place that will accommodate a broad middle, but that will never be granting incidental kill XP for me.  If that makes me fringe, then I'm going to park my ass in the fringe section and make myself at home.

 

Really, all I want is to know how they're going to approach this so I can start stocking up on ****tails of the burning and exploding variety.



#395
Namutree

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Really, all I want is to know how they're going to approach this so I can start stocking up on ****tails of the burning and exploding variety.

Well, even they don't know as much of poe's design has been poorly thought out. We aren't gonna learn how xp is gonna work until about a month before release. It might not have kill-xp at release, but at the moment there is good reason to think it will. 



#396
Stun

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I certainly hope that Sawyer grows a set of hairy balls

I won't get into yet another rehash of arguments that have become more threadbare than my daddy's overstuffed armchair.

I'm going to park my ass in the fringe section and make myself at home.

Not that I agree or disagree with...whatever you're saying here, but I'd just like to point out that there's a fine line between creative writing, and talking like a shopper at a Wall Mart in Alabama. You've crossed it. lol

But on a serious note:
 

Really, all I want is to know how they're going to approach this so I can start stocking up on ****tails of the burning and exploding variety.

I suspect you'll have to scream extra loud to register anything on the e-Richter scale. We of the Pro-combat-XP crowd were always the loudest, and if you'll notice, we're being slowly and subtly appeased. Eventually we'll be mollified to silence and when that happens, there'll be no more 'explosions', because most RPGs reward XP for 'incidental stuff" as you call it. It's what people are used to. Also, Update 7 (the only kickstarter update that discusses the XP issue), is just vague enough to leave the door open for it. Tim Cain said we'll be rewarded for our accomplishments. Well? Disarming traps, opening locks, exploring areas and filling out the bestiary cyclopaedia all fall under the Accomplishment banner. Any gamer who's ever played an RPG knows that.

Edited by Stun, 28 October 2014 - 12:22 AM.

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#397
Namutree

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I suspect you'll have to scream extra loud to register anything on the e-Richter scale. We of the Pro-combat-XP crowd were always the loudest, and if you'll notice, we're being slowly and subtly appeased.

 

Exactly. OE is just wasting time fooling around with the xp system. We know where this is headed. Why they don't just stop beating around the bush and just put combat-xp in is beyond me.



#398
Caladian

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 With every patch, things get better and better, knowing that with tweaks, they will be great in the end.

With each patch it gets closer and closer to combat xp. If the current trend continues; combat xp will be in the game.

 

Changing to combat xp is a major overhaul NOT a tweak.  Just remove the trap/lock xp and I'm fine with it.



#399
Namutree

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 With every patch, things get better and better, knowing that with tweaks, they will be great in the end.

With each patch it gets closer and closer to combat xp. If the current trend continues; combat xp will be in the game.

 

Changing to combat xp is a major overhaul NOT a tweak. 

 

True, but I suspect it will come.



#400
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Changing to combat xp is a major overhaul NOT a tweak.

A change in design philosophy, in fact. But unlike Namutree, I don't believe Obsidian can take it all the way. Not by release time at least. There's far more involved in making a total switch to combat XP than simply assigning XP values to all the enemies. There's also the matter of balancing the entire game from beginning to end to account for the switch, unless they think it's no big deal if players end up hitting the level cap halfway through the game. due to the thousands upon thousands of additional experience points they gained from every enemy kill.




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