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IndiraLightfoot

List of Prios to Fix until the Early 2015 Release

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No it isn't because mathematically a negative percentage gives a higher deficit than a positive percentage does.

 

Also lulz @ this

 

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Edited by Sensuki

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But you were saying it was a cosmetic thing, when it's not just cosmetic. That's why I corrected you. Sure, the balance isn't right - everyone can probably agree on that.

 

I'm saying it's cosmetic because the only thing they have to do to get the exact same numbers output is tweak the balance. They don't have to rewrite the algorithm in the background or rename anything.


Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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Tweaking the balance wouldn't be the same because they would have to increase the amount of stuff you get per point, that's a big deal as you progress through the game because items and buffs will raise your stats quite a bit (even though there is suppression).

 

The formulas are also different in the code (but it's a quick copy paste to revert them back).

 

Nothing about it is cosmetic.

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Why effect in the game is not good enough? Because effect isn't as massive as it is in AD&D.

Yes, that is why we complain about attributes being not influential enough in PoE lol

And I would point out that when you calculate average damage increase caused by might in combat compared to AD&D you should also take account factor that character's in PoE do damage with their attacks more regularly than character's in AD&D, because default hit change is higher in PoE.

That is another pair of boots (which I also don't support as it makes the game too much like MMOs where randomness of hits in combat is replaced just with randomness of damage and combinations of cooldown abilities). It does not excuse the weak effect of attributes on the game. And the weak effect of attributes are here because OE wanted no trap builds and balanced stats, not because of Graze system. So they removed system mastery which was one of the fun parts of IE games (and NWN games) by making attribute effects small. Edited by archangel979

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No it isn't because mathematically a negative percentage gives a higher deficit than a positive percentage does.

 

Also lulz @ this

 

 

yup, you are correct if goal is to get same actual change instead of just setting 30% relative difference between attribute values and then adjusting base values according to that. For such goal they should use formula like "damage/healing base value * (1.2 + might bonus)" which would give out exact same numbers than previous version.

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I have personally never told people not to give opinions and post about the game. I've always encouraged folks to advocate for what they want. I was just saying that I don't think that soliciting our input means that they will or even should take it. Personally, Hiro, you never know what idea you have might have an effect. It"s like cooking. You might not like onions, but that spaghetti sauce sure tastes good. It's about the flavors combining into something wonderful. So you may never know when your input led to something good. They may never know. That's why Indira convinced me I was wrong about the devs prioritizing input for us.

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Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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EVERYTHING that is combat-related.

 

 

 

Since this game looks up to its predecessors, getting to make combat *enjoyable*, *thrilling*, *dynamic* but first and foremost *to work* is top priority and pretty much, half of the fun of the game- the other half being role-playing/customization/exploration.


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Didn't say that at any point. At the end of the day, this is a game that could forge Obsidian a great cash cow of a franchise and thusly they're not gonna take forum posts as gospel over their own ideas/experience, so you don't have to worry about this being some forum users' game.

 

Judge them by the game, regardless of who's thought figured out which mechanic.

 

 

Make your mind up. I'd like to see dev's come onto the forum and interact with the backers. You seem to have an issue with that. And I never said they should take forums posts as gospel over their design decisions. Stop making crap up. And I'm not worried about this being some forum users' game. Why would I be? I never said it should be a forum users' game.

 

And judge them by the game? I'm sure a LOT of people will be judging them by the game including reviewers regardless of who's thought figured out which mechanic. What a stupid comment.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II
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Lets see some dev's come on the forums and interact with the backers. All I'm seeing is a lot of corporate speak, even from Brandon

 

I'm glad they've got their heads down, if the developers answered every open challenge to them they'd never be out of this damn forum.

 

 

If they actually had their head downs and focused, then I doubt there would have been ANOTHER delay. 

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Major things we are working on right now:

 

* Restructuring class advancement to allow more options, both within the selection of core class Abilities and through the (many) Talents that we implemented based on backer feedback.

 

* Modifying some class features to be more transparent or just fundamentally work better.  Monk wounds (and many of their abilities) were very confusing previously.  We've revised them to make what's happening much clearer and easier to use.

 

* Save/load and other persistence issues.  This has been more troublesome than we initially expected and it has caused problems over a much longer period of time than we expected.  Save/load issues can be infuriating, so we really need to spend the necessary time on it.

 

* Memory overhead.  Dan Spitzley has already made good progress on this by looking at audio memory issues and inefficient texture use/atlasing.

 

* Adding in minor bestiary, exploration, lock, and trap XP rewards to increase the regularity of XP rewards across the game.

 

* Revising how time/turns in the Stronghold work.  The turn system (which elapses based on quest progress) solved some problems with time-based stronghold systems in other games (including ones we've made) but it causes some confusion. We're separating "turn"-based resource generation from the random event system, which will be based on the passage of world time.

 

* Pathfinding.  If we could have simply salvaged our previous system, we would have, but that did not appear possible, so we had to fundamentally rebuild it.  There are still problems with log-jams between characters attempting to move through the same space.

 

* Writing/narrative review.  On most projects, it's rare to never that we get time to actually review our own writing and consider how major plot moments and information are conveyed in the story.  This is also includes Karma Police reviews, where we ensure that the various choices players make have consistent feedback throughout the game.

 

* Animation feedback and general aesthetics.  We just added blended flinches for all hits (ones that don't Interrupt, that is -- Interrupts already have their own animation), which was something we weren't able to do at the beginning of the project.  They can be played while a character is in the middle of a reload, attack, spellcast, or even while prone, which helps a lot with feedback.

 

* Character model/texture quality.  It's difficult to balance the needs of a distant camera with the camera views you have in character creation, level up, and inventory, but Dimitri is making his way through the more glaring issues.

 

This list that Josh just provided is simply brilliant. If you compare it with my OP and many of the issues that I and others have had with the game (even including small-increment xp!), Josh & Co is intent on fixing it all and giving us just that.

I told you so! OE does listen, and this definitely and unsurprisingly includes Josh.

There have been plenty of people flaming people criticising the points that Josh now will make sure PoE includes. If stubborn fans like Sensuki (the epitome of what I mean by this) and plenty of others here hadn't pointed these issues and shortcomings out over and over, often systematically, and sometimes bluntly, we would perhaps not even have gotten this necessary delay and all of the fixes.

So, give it up for all of those who dared to complain, criticize and whine while at the same time coming up with potential fixes and alternatives.

These are not nostalgic grognards, but experienced and diligent peeps who have been voicing valid concerns. If so-called OE yes-men had their way, if I put it drastically, then we would have gotten a premature release and a potentially great game getting butchered, and then OE's hard work would've been all in vain.

 

That list right above feels like sweet, sweet victory to me and several others who have been posting a lot in these forums for one reason only: helping OE make the best game they can possibly make. We are fans that care about the heritage and the future of these games, and especially of OE's fantastic works and contributions in this genre. This is not design by committee, nor is there any reason for envy of any of us forum contributors because we got in a point or two, or for a dismissal of us as loudspeakers that drown a plethora of unheard shy voices. We're giving all of this feedback, often and loudly, because we want OE to succeed with this game. Everybody is free to do the same. I am for one is proud when I see Josh's list above, and once again, to all who have been delivering good and honest feedback on the PoE BB - you know who you are - great work, gratz on a job very well done!!

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Lock XP is actually a bad idea unless you also reward other actions like finding an alternate route, and only reward one of them - otherwise picking the lock will always be the best action, and that's a bad thing.

Edited by Sensuki
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-Make each and every class so fun and viable in combat and all that we get a hard time choosing one whenever we start a new game. Balance them, yes, but not at the cost of making them hum-drum and similar

-Take the time and add more talents and possibly feats for each class. Have stuff happening at every level-up

-In general, let us shape various versions of each class, at least combat-wise, which are clearly different from one another, through the char creation and char development

-Make attributes matter more, please

 

 

 

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It's not cosmetic because they haven't adjusted the base values. That's all there is to it. The balance of the attribute system has objectively changed.

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Lock XP is actually a bad idea unless you also reward other actions like finding an alternate route, and only reward one of them - otherwise picking the lock will always be the best action, and that's a bad thing.

Also this. Please no for lock XP. Please no. :/

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Lock picking XP will become a huge backdoor argument for kill XP and will be the source of renewed and unending angst for players who were clamoring for kill XP if it ends up not being in the game.  Have a few quests or sub-quest line that rewards people for using their leet lock picking skills.  Have a lockiary that ends up doling some XP if it makes folks happy.  Don't put in XP contrary to the rest of the entire XP system *just for one activity!*

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Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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I like bestiary XP though. Getting XP for learning things makes intuitive sense and if properly balanced™ with the number of critters in the game won't turn you into a murderhobo.

 

But yeah, no to lock/trap XP.

 

(At this point I'm kinda past caring about the XP system; the endless arguments about it have worn me out. A little burned out on the BB too, truth be told.)

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Heh! I'm a bit burnt out on the BB 301 at least. I need a juicy update to get going again, I reckon.

 

And the xp system debate was horribly exhausting. I still honestly think that tiny xp rewards for encounters would have been the best. Scrap the WL2 mini-rewards for skill uses (which I would be totally fine if PoE had, actually. I wouldn't mind. But all the time, before the xp system debate/debacle, I was under the impression that Josh & Co aimed at the following simple and pretty cool solution:

-Each encounter has a value in xp.

-If you sneak by the enemies in that encounter once (it should require skill and a bit of good rolls), you get that xp reward

-If you kill the enemies in that encounter, you get the same xp reward

-On top of this, we would see quest xp and sub-quest xp

 

If OE would implement this I'd jump up and down in a sofa harder than Tom Cruise did.

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I just feel like the beta doesn't really give me enough information to have a decent opinion on almost all of game mechanics.
-I'm still not convinced about the attributes in general. (and might still doesn't quite jive with me)
- I like the idea of objective based xp but we haven't really seen it. Quest based is far too sparse as it is.
- not enough gear to have a good idea of balance. Not sure why they didn't start the party off with an 'average' load out of items, but it's damned hard to estimate how the game will play without appropriate level 5 equipment.   Seems like they are adding in additional items already, so it's not a great concern.
- the very limited amount of skills. This concerns me more than most issues. I know one of their primary goals was to have separate pools for combat and noncombat skills, but the way it looks now really concerns me to be honest. I'll be the first one to admit that I have a certain play-style that I always seem to prefer; the smooth talking thief/rogue.  I really like the idea of the "no-win-button" with attributes/skills/(possibly factions?) dialog, but the way the skills are set up as of now doesn't feel to me like it let's you be "SKILLED" in any particular thing. You pour a lot of points into a very broad skill category, but you never specialize anything. Even if skills let you go one level deeper, it would seem more satisfying to me.
BUT...
...as I said in the beginning, I don't feel that the beta really provides a broad enough view of the game in which I can really judge what's going on. I'm still very excited about PoE. I get the '"no bad builds" and "equally viable combat-noncombat options" but it seems to me that in a party based rpg, a big part of that dynamic is to play off each party member's strengths and weaknesses.

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FIX BUGS make the game playable,

 

I want to play as either a Druid or Ranger and they seem to the the most bugged classes in the game,

 

Ranger is still missing health, and cant fully heal, and the whole share the health thing im not so keen on,

Druids shapeshifting is just a bit pointless at the moment, I get stuck in human form with a random ability where the shapshifted ability should be not able to equip any items etc, why no summon spells?

 

and from previous comments movement speed is fine, maybe paladin buffs makes it a little quick but in general any slower and it would be boring, also spell effects are definitely not way to flashy as most look very similar, or just don't have one at the moment.

 

Extra time should not be to add things it should be to make the game playable, everytime I try the backer beta I come across a game breaking bug, ive given up now until a new build comes out.

 

Way more portraits needed, double or maybe even more, and let both males and females share all hairs, at least it would give us more options.

 

Agree with most the beta we have doesn't give us no where near a decent impression of most things in the game.

Edited by axan22

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and from previous comments movement speed is fine,

 

For the party members that may be true, but certainly not for the baddies. There, combat needs to be revisited and adjusted. As things are now, even oozing green blobs would outrun a cheetah, and all this is because the game won't to deter kiting - whether via ranged weapons or "cheap" long-range spells.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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and from previous comments movement speed is fine,

 

For the party members that may be true, but certainly not for the baddies. There, combat needs to be revisited and adjusted. As things are now, even oozing green blobs would outrun a cheetah, and all this is because the game won't to deter kiting - whether via ranged weapons or "cheap" long-range spells.

 

 

My guess is that the movement speed of all enemies at the moment has a set movement speed since I think atleast they all seem to move at about the same speed. I am not sure how the movement speed is set up but it might take a while if they are going to adjust every single enemy in the game to have their own speed. Like a slime being extra slow or a spider being extra fast perhaps. But there are spells/skills that root/slow right? They can be used to kite. Also if it was real life it would be really hard to kite with a bow. Seeing as the more you run the more you'd be out of breath meaning the harder it would be for you to hit. You would also need to stop turn around, pick up an arrow put the arrow on correctly and pull the bow string, aim and then let loose. A skilled archer could probably do this within 5-10 seconds if standing still and not being out of breath.

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Nah they all have values in their creature script in the prefab file that overrides the default speed in the source code. I have figured out how to open the creature files in Unity, but not how to get the modified versions back into the game.

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Being able to hotkey the action bar would be good, I think you could do that in IWD2.

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