nipsen Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I play role-playing games. On paper. And on computers. I read fiction, I read history, I read philosophy - I read practically everything except Ayn Rand and James Clerk Maxwell (because it's just boring). So Obsidian has always made games that appeal to me. Their games always have a script worthy of a sometimes very good novel. And on top of that Obsidian, unlike most other game-developers of RPG-games, have always had care with integrating the mechanics of the game into the narrative. Making the playable character fit in the game-world is important in any game to suspend disbelief, but in role-playing games and with role-playing mechanics it takes a bit of talent to do it. Simply put, Obsidian stands out as a company that actually understands what the mechanics in a role-playing game are supposed to do, namely be a helper to immerse people in the game-world. (As opposed to generate bigger and bigger numbers). It has however been my impression that any system more complex than Dungeon Siege 3's "Press X to Roleplay" system has been difficult for Obsidian to pitch to a publisher. So when the kick-starter for Pillars of Eternity was announced, I was happy to sponsor it. Because I wanted to see Obsidian, along with Chris Avellone and other Black Isle folks make a game that they wanted to make. It seemed too good to be true, of course, and it usually is. But the lore of the game was sketched out - it wasn't a nominal human/elf fantasy setting with magic and dragons. It had a twist. The attribute system was presented. And it is deep and keenly aware of having the advantage of a computer to do the calculations in the background. And the combination of the attribute system and the game's setting was interesting. The way the characters could be built in various abstract ways with strengths and weaknesses, and have those strengths and weaknesses actually reflected in the game world - was even more interesting. Here's a system that doesn't just allow you to make a mage weak on intelligence, for example. Or a priest low on discipline and wisdom. A fighter without high strength. A rogue without incredible intelligence, but still with nimble fingers. But the characters (as long as you fill up the attribute points) inevitably also have different strengths, and the game would allow you to play the character as the character would be set up. Without necessarily more or less difficulty than before if you simply played into the character's strengths and was aware of it's weaknesses. It seemed to good to be true, and it usually is. And yet, with the backer beta, it turns out Obsidian had actually done it. Implemented a system that has more depth than the fairly rudimentary d&d system, taking advantage of the game being done on a computer rather than on paper. With small adjustments (as in small simplifications) it would probably be easy to convert the system to a paper role-playing game as well - which I thought the game and the system practically begged for. So this was Obsidian without the publisher restraint, without the "press X to roleplay" requirement. And the result is brilliant! It still seems too good to be true - and it turns out it is. Josh Sawyer, the lead designer, posts this on the forum: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68526-how-to-fix-the-attribute-design-in-pillars-of-eternity/?p=1508219 Essentially establishing that Obsidian has listened carefully to "fans" on the internet, and deliberated themselves to choosing a system that has a more one-sided, one-dimensional quality, similar to the D&D system. Where the game's mechanics are completely disconnected from the attribute system, and the attributes are dictated slavishly once you determine your class. And as is made obvious in that post, Obsidian does this to please it's fans. I don't participate on 5 different forums and spam Obsidian with messages stating - endlessly - that the character and attribute system is broken. I don't spam Obsidian with doom and gloom because "perception is a trap build recipe". I don't insist that the game "clearly" has this, and "clearly" intends that. I don't spam my royal interpretations of "Obsidian's True Meaning With This Oblique Statement". And because I don't do that, I am apparently not a fan of Obsidian's role-playing games, or at least doesn't count as one. So when random changes are made to the game in the last backer beta that I suppose might make sense in forum-land, but which does not make sense on Orlan -- then we have a problem. The problem is this: I did not pay to fund "Matt514" or "Sensuki"'s attribute system implementation. I did not fund Obsidian during the kickstarter to have Obsidian make design sacrifices to appease internet fans. I did not fund Obsidian during the kickstarter to have someone else make design decisions. It seems that this is what Obsidian has decided, however. So I'll have to respect that. The changes as well are "clearly" not up for rational discussion - the mere weight of demands to change the system is what has motivated the changes, not a real explanation with a good reason. And since pledge money from Kickstarter is gone and cannot be reclaimed, no matter how much the developer squanders the money - I'll make the following proposal to you: 1. Cancel my box-copy order of the game. 2. Pledge the same amount to the nearest Aspergers-foundation, in honor of your actual target audience: people who can be genuinely entertained by simply watching unrelated numbers with no meaning scroll down a list. 3. Post the receipt. Here are my order details: Pledge Order: 4F0M60T5FKBLG nipsen@toothandmail.com March 4, 2014 5:59 AM Confirmed $45.00 Pledge Order: 9P6ISH2SA8MFA nipsen@toothandmail.com September 4, 2014 10:05 AM Confirmed $25.00 Here are links to several Aspergers charities, www.asperger.asn.au/ www.aspergerfoundation.org.uk/ www.usautism.org/ ----- So simply remove my pledge and remove the order for the boxed copy. Then complete the transaction with the sum from my order with any of the charities, and post the receipt. I have noticed that you have done stranger things for fans lately. So I'm expecting Obsidian to also do this. Alternatively, as long as Obsidian wipes my pledge and removes the order - and someone else posts a receipt with a donation to their Aspergers foundation of choice -- I expect more than one of you to have a favorite -- I'll also be happy with the result. The goal is simply that I want proof that my money is not going to fund "committee-designed" games that aim for the lowest common denominator. Or alternatively, the loudest and most obstinate posts on a forum. I just don't accept that I've paid money to Obsidian for that purpose. If that was what you set out to do, then you could have signed with a publisher. 2 The injustice must end! Sign the petition and Free the Krug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It might be best to contact Support. Go to Backer Portal > My Account > Support Clicking on the Support Button and then New Request states: If you have any questions or concerns about your pledges or account, please enter them below. Try to include as much information as possible to help us with your donation/purchase. Please note: This service is only intended for customer support issues relating to your pledges, purchases, and fulfilment. That would be the best route to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) It seems that this is what Obsidian has decided, however. So I'll have to respect that. Nipson, bro. I love ya, but no. Obsidian doesn't just adapt every critique without seeing it as a good option themselves. It seems to me you don't trust Obsidian to handle fan critique correctly more than anything else. Edited October 1, 2014 by C2B 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grone Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It might be best to contact Support. Go to Backer Portal > My Account > Support Clicking on the Support Button and then New Request states: If you have any questions or concerns about your pledges or account, please enter them below. Try to include as much information as possible to help us with your donation/purchase. Please note: This service is only intended for customer support issues relating to your pledges, purchases, and fulfilment. That would be the best route to take. He clearly isn't here to actually make a support request but to air his butthurt in public. 9 Extensive Pillars Review & IE-retrospective | GURPS: The Witcher | Let's Play: Way of the Wicked | Where Journalism Goes to Write Itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Regardless. It would be better to go through support so there's an official request and ticket on file with Obsidian. Proper channels and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensuki Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Obsidian didn't actually implement anything unique to our paper, and I don't really agree with the removal of Interrupt from the attribute system. Still offering a v278 Attribute system mod for anyone that wants it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 www.butthurt.asn.au/ www.butthurtfoundation.org.uk/ www.usbutthurt.org/ 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Looks at people responding in thread. hmmm.. Goes over to the Codex. I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Wow, that was epic. Unfortunately Kickstarters are non-refundable, as you know, but post a YouTube video of yourself doing something like this only featuring the best bits of the post that started this thread, and I will personally gift you the IE game of your choice from GoG. But only if it's properly emoted, truly from the heart. No cheating! I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipsen Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 It seems that this is what Obsidian has decided, however. So I'll have to respect that. Nipson, bro. I love ya, but no. Obsidian doesn't just adapt every critique without seeing it as a good option themselves. It seems to me you don't trust Obsidian to handle fan critique correctly more than anything else. I thought I could. I laughed off the trillion bs posts on the forums. But Obsidian seem very obviously to have decided to make the system more mechanical and straightforward in response to complaints from... people who lack imagination. Taking them to be representative for all their kickstarter backers. So I don't want to support Obsidian in any way. And to achieve that I will make an outrageous fan request, in public, of the kind that Obsidian seems so fond of responding to lately. But generally, if they want to make derivative mush, then go to a publisher. I specifically wanted the opposite of that when I pledged money to the kickstarter. And I know some of you did as well. The injustice must end! Sign the petition and Free the Krug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk47 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Contact Ryan Morrison. If there's anyone who can help you, it's him. ryan@ryanmorrisonlaw.com 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I've been following Cleve's thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensuki Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 You sure you haven't come to a foregone conclusion nipsen? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seari Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 what the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipsen Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) ...It's not too complicated, is it - Obsidian cancels my order. They can do that. And if they're not content to take my money for nothing in return, they'll do as I say and pledge the money to help people with Asperbergers. In a real way that actually helps them. Edited October 1, 2014 by nipsen The injustice must end! Sign the petition and Free the Krug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitron Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Holy crap. nipsen, I can tell you in all honesty that Sensuki does not have any special privileges with Josh. On Something Awful, Josh almost makes it a point to ignore him - and god knows there's lots to ignore (no offense, Sensuki!) Edited October 1, 2014 by Infinitron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensuki Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) I don't know if I'd be making videos on youtube if I had asperger's syndrome, sure you're donating to the right charity?I recommend donating to save animals instead Edited October 1, 2014 by Sensuki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illathid Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 "Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic." -Josh Sawyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Pretty insulting to people with Aspergers too I'd imagine.#FirstWorldDilemmas Nipsen, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensuki Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 On Something Awful, Josh almost makes it a point to ignore him - and god knows there's lots to ignore (no offense, Sensuki!) I should get Matt516 to say everything for me instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Asperbergers? I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorfean Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 So, basically, you're butthurt about some changes they made to the attribute system based on beta feedback, and you know it's impossible to get a refund on your pledge because that's not how Kickstarter works, so now you're trying to guilt them into kind of giving you a refund anyway by being oh so self-sacrificial and working the just-give-my-money-to-the-sick-people angle... Ugh. Congratulations, you win today's "Internet Douchebag of the Day" award. Take a bow. 8 Shadow Thief of the Obsidian Order My Backloggery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 5 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 nipsen has gotten his message out. Further requests should be sent to support. Thread closed. 2 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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