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Was the backer beta a good idea?

bugs negativity fatigue

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#21
mutonizer

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Well I agree that any team considering beta testers as anything but free disposable QA testers is going at it the wrong way, but just like with QA testers, if some of them come back to you with constructive, detailed feedback on some issues, ignoring them because they are are not your "release target demographic" is a mistake.

 


That said the game will be better for our participation, and I want this IP to succeed, I want this style of RPG to come back and I want sequels, so IMO it's worth it for me

+10000.


Edited by mutonizer, 06 September 2014 - 06:58 AM.

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#22
Ink Blot

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Pretty much what Sensuki said, although I'll add that for me I doubt it's going to affect my enjoyment. It's not like I wouldn't see any flaws/bugs that make into the final release anyway, and getting a grasp on the game system and the world right now is probably only going to enhance my enjoyment of the game later on.


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#23
Tartantyco

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Well I agree that any team considering beta testers as anything but free disposable QA testers is going at it the wrong way, but just like with QA testers, if some of them come back to you with constructive, detailed feedback on some issues, ignoring them because they are are not your "release target demographic" is a mistake.

 

I think the false assumption you're making here is that the developers do not generate this same feedback internally, discuss it in a reasonable manner, and resolved the issue. The reason why they ignore a lot of feedback may just be because they've dealt with that discussion already.

 

Take the combat XP discussion, for instance. They've had those discussions, they've done those tests, they have already resolved that issue. Something would have to come completely out of left field for them to even re-consider the issue. The "discussions" and "feedback" this forum has generated on the subject is rarely of more value than recording small children crying, but even those few reasonable pro-Kill-XP points that have come up in these threads have more than likely been raised in internal discussions already.


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#24
mutonizer

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Maybe, probably, hopefully.

 

Something that might help would be simple official list on couple core issues topic, like:

- XP for combat: This has been discussed, will never change.

- Health / Stamina: This has been discussed, will never change, just balanced at best.

- etc...

 

At least we'd know what's final, what's still being discussed, then can focus on balancing, rather than arguing.


Edited by mutonizer, 06 September 2014 - 07:01 AM.

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#25
Monte Carlo

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You don't often see green names on this forum.


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#26
Sensuki

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Take the combat XP discussion, for instance.


Not the best example because the Lead Designer was set on that from the beginning. Other members of the development team were not. The CEO of their own company prefers combat XP.

You're continued attitude of "the developers are better than you" is tiresome.
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#27
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Take the combat XP discussion, for instance.


Not the best example because the Lead Designer was set on that from the beginning. Other members of the development team were not. The CEO of their own company prefers combat XP.

You're continued attitude of "the developers are better than you" is tiresome.

 

Straw man detected. I'm saying that you're arguing from a position of ignorance, but with the attitude of someone who's omniscient.

 

(Also, are you saying that a situation in which developers would be more likely to discuss the XP system would somehow make it less likely that they would discuss the XP system?)


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#28
C2B

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Take the combat XP discussion, for instance.

Not the best example because the Lead Designer was set on that from the beginning. Other members of the development team were not. The CEO of their own company prefers combat XP.You're continued attitude of "the developers are better than you" is tiresome.

Careful here. I very much doubt quest xp is in because Sawyer set himself over everyone. (Despite what Volourn thinks) Like everything else this was most likely discussed internally with the majority being for Quest/Objective XP in the end.
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#29
Sarex

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Careful here. I very much doubt quest xp is in because Sawyer set himself over everyone. (Despite what Volourn thinks) Like everything else this was most likely discussed internally with the majority being for Quest/Objective XP in the end.

 

He is the project lead though.


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#30
Sensuki

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Straw man detected. I'm saying that you're arguing from a position of ignorance, but with the attitude of someone who's omniscient.
 
(Also, are you saying that a situation in which developers would be more likely to discuss the XP system would somehow make it less likely that they would discuss the XP system?)


I don't see how that is ignorant, I was informing you that Combat XP was literally never up for discussion.

You are correct in that the discussions on combat XP in this forum serve no purpose other than to vent, as it will quite literally never be reversed.
 

Careful here. I very much doubt quest xp is in because Sawyer set himself over everyone. (Despite what Volourn thinks) Like everything else this was most likely discussed internally with the majority being for Quest/Objective XP in the end.


I believe it is. There would no doubt have been others that agree with him, but it's something he's wanted to do for a while. Ask Roguey. He would probably be able to pull a quote for you about it.

Edited by Sensuki, 06 September 2014 - 07:40 AM.

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#31
C2B

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Careful here. I very much doubt quest xp is in because Sawyer set himself over everyone. (Despite what Volourn thinks) Like everything else this was most likely discussed internally with the majority being for Quest/Objective XP in the end.

 
He is the project lead though.

Final decision. Yes. (Of course any of the owners could overrule him) But I really doubt Sawyer would have done it if a visible majority was set against it.

#32
Hiro Protagonist II

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I very much doubt there was a vote.


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#33
Sensuki

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But I really doubt Sawyer would have done it if a visible majority was set against it.


I do.

#34
C2B

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Careful here. I very much doubt quest xp is in because Sawyer set himself over everyone. (Despite what Volourn thinks) Like everything else this was most likely discussed internally with the majority being for Quest/Objective XP in the end.

I believe it is. There would no doubt have been others that agree with him, but it's something he's wanted to do for a while. Ask Roguey. He would probably be able to pull a quote for you about it.
Yeah, I definitly don't need selective Roguey quoting (I have read enough posts from people who actually know/knew Sawyer to have an impression of him. )And I don't doubt Sawyer wanted to do it.

What I'm arguing against is the picture of Sawyer as some dictactor that forced it in.

Edited by C2B, 06 September 2014 - 07:44 AM.


#35
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Chain of command.

#36
Hiro Protagonist II

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There may have been many concerns and reservations about some of the design choices and not just combat xp from the other developers. I could see Josh putting his case forward and convincing them that his design would be good.

 

What I'm wondering is if the dev's have been testing this for months, why hasn't any of them including Q&A mentioned their concerns with things like rest spamming. This was one of the degenerate things Josh criticised in the IE games. Even in the latest video, Rose rests twice before she gets to the Ogre and she took the optimal path avoiding a lot of trash mobs. This never happened in the IE games with a simple FedEx quest. Surely some of the dev's would be thinking, 'geez, I'm resting a lot before I even try and finish a simple quest'. These sort of things should have been picked up and something done about it.


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#37
Freshock

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I think financially it was a good idea to have a public beta, it's something that sounds good when pitching the idea. And don't think they would have reached the same amount of funding if it wasn't for having beta on the tier list. It should also be good for a game in development to have "more eyes" so they can get rid of most bugs. But on the other hand it seems like people somehow get confused by the beta concept, and think it's more like a demo of the game. It may be that these people will have a harder time looking past the negatives when the full game releases. I hope not though.



#38
IndiraLightfoot

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Maybe, probably, hopefully.

 

Something that might help would be simple official list on couple core issues topic, like:

- XP for combat: This has been discussed, will never change.

- Health / Stamina: This has been discussed, will never change, just balanced at best.

- etc...

 

At least we'd know what's final, what's still being discussed, then can focus on balancing, rather than arguing.

This is but a bare minimum!

For this beta to be constructive for them, and fair for those of us (we're fans of OE, and really want this IP to succeed), we need a pretty detailed account of those core issues, and the leeway for change for each of them.

I'm missing that Swen Vincke of Larian Games-approach a bit, or closer to the devs beta, where feedback got updated quicker, and whole systems could go out the window, even with ideals if needs be, only to make the game better and more attractive for the backers. Swen even dropped a few KS promises, just to make sure that stuff that got in were pampered correctly.


Edited by IndiraLightfoot, 06 September 2014 - 08:06 AM.


#39
Uomoz

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Wow this insider posts from people that really know what's going on inside Obsidian! Impressive! Sawyer sure is a dictator... /sarcasm


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#40
Sarex

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Yeah, I definitly don't need selective Roguey quoting (I have read enough posts from people who actually know/knew Sawyer to have an impression of him. )And I don't doubt Sawyer wanted to do it.

What I'm arguing against is the picture of Sawyer as some dictactor that forced it in.

 

An error in your hypothesis is that you are pretty sure that other devs would have done anything more them offer mild objections, which Josh would have needed to squash. I imagine that even though there were disagreements, there was very little opposition.


Edited by Sarex, 06 September 2014 - 08:16 AM.






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