IndiraLightfoot Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Alignment has always been a weird thing. Systems like that in F:NV are much better IMO. Still, if you compare those two, regardless of which one's in place, it actually affects gameplay very little compared to a combat xp system vs quest-xp only. The rhythm of the abstract character progression and the incitement/reward mechanics (both core elements in a CRPG) become very much slower (or should I say stretched out?) and linear, just to name two things. Edited August 29, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Personally what I got from the devs from Kickstarter to present was not that Eternity was going to be a clone of the best of the IE games - it was that it was going to be an isometric view RPG with numerous classes & companions featuring tactical group combat with an engaging story that reacts to your decisions/actions. Nothing I have seen thus far indicates to me that this is not what we are getting. 5 Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order Not all those that wander are lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayama Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Alignment has always been a weird thing. Systems like that in F:NV are much better IMO. Still, if you compare those two, regardless of which one's in place, it actually affects gameplay very little compared to a combat xp system vs quest-xp only. The rhythm of the abstract character progression and the incitement/reward mechanics (both core elements in a CRPG) become very much slower (or should I say stretched out?) and linear, just to name two things. Well in baldurs gate it decided which characters you could in a party together, or which party members stayed depending on your decisions. You couldnt do the bodhi quest with the paladin for example etc. it also influences how the story progresses, bodhi/bandit etc.. imo baldurs gate without alignment system would play way more different than baldurs gate without kill xp. Planescape on the other hand wouldnt work without alignments. Edit: That said I agree that the alignment system in D&D is the most anoying thing ever. Edited August 29, 2014 by Mayama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) That's the female paladin, right? The Paladin with a vagina - aka. Pallegina. How clever. It's got that beat-you-over-the-head-till-you-get-it quality to it. I love subtleness. I approve! Edited August 29, 2014 by Stun 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortalis Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin was worse.. but I not only expect that.. but demand that from a Larian studios game.. From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigydancer Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 People are very selective about what is a "pillar of the IE" games, PoE has no alignment system which is a part of icewind dale very important in baldurs gate and a core principle in planescape torment. Alignments are a D&D feature. My impression so far is that Obsidian isn't going to re-invent D&D. The ruleset they are developing for PoE is quite different so it's hardly a surprise some familiar mechanics from IE games are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayama Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Imo THE important thing about that pic is that it shows a godlike from one of the gods that you cant choose in the beta. Edited August 29, 2014 by Mayama 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Blot Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Alignments are a D&D feature. My impression so far is that Obsidian isn't going to re-invent D&D. The ruleset they are developing for PoE is quite different so it's hardly a surprise some familiar mechanics from IE games are missing. Have you read the D&D 4th Edition rule set? If not, I encourage you to do so and then see how you feel about this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigydancer Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Divinity: Original Sin was worse.. but I not only expect that.. but demand that from a Larian studios game.. D:OS is annoying like any game that gives you powerful tools only to render them useless further down the road. After level 15 half of the enemies you encounter are invulnerable until you figure out how to weaken them. This doesn't enhance gameplay or make things more challenging because abusing invisibility isn't really hard. Cyseal area is pretty solid though. Edited August 29, 2014 by prodigydancer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigydancer Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Have you read the D&D 4th Edition rule set? If not, I encourage you to do so and then see how you feel about this statement. I think I'll pass. My D&D days are over and reading a huge manual for no reason isn't my idea of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Blot Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think I'll pass. My D&D days are over and reading a huge manual for no reason isn't my idea of fun. Sorry, that was kind of tongue-in-cheek. I love reading game manuals and rule sets (even bought the Numenera core rule book because I backed Tides of Numenera) Anyway, apparently Josh is a big fan of 4th Edition, and the game mechanics of PoE are very, very similar to that rule set with respect to the use of 'powers' (talents and feats) in combat, their cooldowns/uses per day/encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkarov Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 He sounds like generic forum goer X so his opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's. I agree with most sentiments except the turn based stuff and combat exp. Just make combat a little slower with more feedback and everyone will be fine. 90% of everyones problem right now is just the bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Alignments are a D&D feature. My impression so far is that Obsidian isn't going to re-invent D&D. The ruleset they are developing for PoE is quite different so it's hardly a surprise some familiar mechanics from IE games are missing. Have you read the D&D 4th Edition rule set? If not, I encourage you to do so and then see how you feel about this statement. d&d 4th and PoE is not as similar as you might suggest. most PoE classes does have a handful of per encounter abilities, but that hardly makes PoE feel like 4th edition. Wizards and Priests in PoE, for example, feel far closer to 3e or even 5e iterations o' D&D as 'posed to the 4e variations. PoE skill choices and spread is complete different in PoE v. 4e. saves, defelction, health, stamina is all different and all integral to the PoE system. you are overstating for effect, perhaps? we will observe that sawyer seems to have taken elements from all d&d editions to build what he believes is a better mousetrap... a better crpg mousetrap. am not sure he succeeded, and we would like to have seen more skills, but there is much about PoE that complete diverts from 4e as there is that is reminiscent. HA! Good Fun! Edited August 29, 2014 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyFox Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I didn't say it was flawless, did I? It is very, very good though. ToEE was pretty forgettable to me, actually the crappy radial menu is all I really remember from it. I think it's the one that had that crazy bar that determined how much of your turn you used up....yea....no thanks. It did play in a similar way to a PnP module(no duh right) which was pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Personally what I got from the devs from Kickstarter to present was not that Eternity was going to be a clone of the best of the IE games - it was that it was going to be an isometric view RPG with numerous classes & companions featuring tactical group combat with an engaging story that reacts to your decisions/actions. Nothing I have seen thus far indicates to me that this is not what we are getting. Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good. We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! Edited August 30, 2014 by Helm Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeEdge Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Personally what I got from the devs from Kickstarter to present was not that Eternity was going to be a clone of the best of the IE games - it was that it was going to be an isometric view RPG with numerous classes & companions featuring tactical group combat with an engaging story that reacts to your decisions/actions. Nothing I have seen thus far indicates to me that this is not what we are getting. Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good. We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! That's not what he said at all. Why is it that almost every advocate for combat xp is an irritating zealot on the issue? You're not more of an IE game fan for preferring a certain XP reward system so stop trying to monopolise the right to define what is and what isn't a spritual succesor to the Infinity Engine games. And you're still not getting combat xp lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderon Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Personally what I got from the devs from Kickstarter to present was not that Eternity was going to be a clone of the best of the IE games - it was that it was going to be an isometric view RPG with numerous classes & companions featuring tactical group combat with an engaging story that reacts to your decisions/actions. Nothing I have seen thus far indicates to me that this is not what we are getting. Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good. We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! Really? You mean other than the isometric view, the companions, the tactical group combat and engaging storyline that reacts to your decisions/actions? Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order Not all those that wander are lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good. We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! Why is it that almost every advocate for combat xp is an irritating zealot on the issue? You're not more of an IE game fan for preferring a certain XP reward system so stop trying to monopolise the right to define what is and what isn't a spritual succesor to the Infinity Engine games. PoE isn't a spiritual successor because the core mechanics of the games that we loved are not there. That is something that happens when the lead designer hates the game he is supposed to be making a spiritual successor to. Obsidian promised us an Infinity Engine experience (Baldur's Gate to be specific) and what we got was an RPG with a casualized character system, always-on super stealth mode, quest only XP where you must do the bidding of villagers to get XP, pointless and unrewarding combat, lack of choice (all choices matter equally), lackluster music, no exploration, the itemization appears to be lame, HP bloat and so on. It probably wouldn't be so bad if it was actually good, but it isn't. But at least the writing is good. lol BTW we are advocating for ways to get XP other than by doing the bidding of villagers, for example by exploring or engaging in combat. You know, like in the IE games. Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good. We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! Really? You mean other than the isometric view, the companions, the tactical group combat and engaging storyline that reacts to your decisions/actions? Which game are you talking about? Arcanum? Darklands? Fallout? You have to be more specific and describe the core mechanics of the game. Edited August 30, 2014 by Helm 2 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uomoz Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The amount of butthurtness in this thread is reaching critical mass! Eject! Eject! On a serious note, this game is the only one that looks and feel like BG in the last 10 years, please stop complaining already. Consider us fortunate! PS: You may want to try the full game before jumping to conclusions about the new mechanics, if you start that hostile about them. Most of the criticism about the xp system is blatantly unconstructive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 It looks like BG, it has good writing like in BG, but it doesn't feel like BG. At all. I probably wouldn't complain if we were actually given what we were promised. 1 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The amount of butthurtness in this thread is reaching critical mass! Eject! Eject! Its like the promancers were reincarnated. 1 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManifestedISO Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Reanimated, you mean. 1 All Stop. On Screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Reanimated, you mean. No, new body so its reincarnation. The corpse of romance would probably get reanimated as a soulless beast if the South African spent enough time in the thread though. "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManifestedISO Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Same body, alternate purpose, even less chance at life, ergo undead. All Stop. On Screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen Rohk Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 On the Guild Wars 2 forums, people complain that it's not enough like Guild Wars 1. The reaction: "So go play Guild Wars 1" Read between the lines, kthx. Despite the bugs in beta, I continue to think it's ridiculous the way some are dug into the ground expecting a copy of Baldur's Gate. As someone above said, we're getting a brand new IE-style game. Not another IE game. You read my post. You have been eaten by a grue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.jpg.ce846aae50e732dc4985eb712252381f.jpg)
Recommended Posts