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Trees and grass

trees grass animation pillars eternity

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#21
Quadrone

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They should if they want the game to have strong sales. Reviews will notice this and it will push away some of the less IE enthusiast crowd. 

 

Are you actually serious?

Do you mean to tell me that animated vegetation is some huge sales factor?



#22
constantine

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The trees in that video are still better than nothing.



I agree, but it seems they re not coming back. Too bad.

#23
Gairnulf

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This thing about the strong sales reminded me of an argument I saw in, *ahem*, another forum, that if a certain game doesn't make it "obvious enough" from its box art that you can play with a female PC, "many women may not know and may not even consider buying it", although in that instance it was phrased almost as a threat :lol:

Seriously though, when I watched the tech demonstration video, the animations did look very cool, yet if they are too short it would actually make the game look less realistic. Adding realism to visuals in a game is kind of a slippery slope - you have to pay roughly equal amounts of attention to the realism of visuals of every part of the game, which means adding a proportional amount of detail to one aspect increases the amount of work needed exponentially, otherwise you risk having very detailed trees but people asking "why doesn't the wind force and direction ever change?", "why doesn't the wind get stronger during rain". Or you can have detailed and varied faces but instead of appreciacion you have people asking "why so few hairs", or "why no facial animations", etc. Or you add domestic animals in villages, and someone comes up with the question "we have such details as varied wind force and direction, but the horses only have one idle animation of beating with their hoof on the ground, why are they so overlooked, and the dogs have only two animations of barking...". :) So I can understand part of the reasons they removed those animations has to be that they saved themselves a big amount of other work they would otherwise have had on the visuals, which indirectly follows from the foilage animations but would have been needed to keep the visual style consistent, instead of looking like they paid a great amount of attention to one thing and neglected visual detail in other areas.

Btw, I really like the small animations in the water, the dandelions' seeds flying through the air in Dyrwood crossing, or the fireflies seen in the twitch video. I think that's just enough environment animation to make the environments feel alive.

Edited by Gairnulf, 15 November 2014 - 11:40 PM.

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#24
Rumsteak

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Yeah you're right, if developers start adding bells and whistles for some specific visuals, there will be a snowball effect and people are going to expect more and more for all other visuals. This could make the game relatively low budget explode.

I think the game is graphically good enough, I'm very happy with what has been done given the constraints. Won't mind some improvements if they have some free time of course!


Edited by Rumsteak, 15 November 2014 - 11:53 PM.


#25
archangel979

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They should if they want the game to have strong sales. Reviews will notice this and it will push away some of the less IE enthusiast crowd. 

 

Are you actually serious?

Do you mean to tell me that animated vegetation is some huge sales factor?

 

Yes, because out of all the animations this has been most asked about feature. 



#26
Skipperro

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In the first video presentation of PoE Josh said, that there will be animated background like trees and grass, and we've even saw it working. I was surprised too, that in BB backgrounds are static. I don't mind if it will be static or not, it's a minor feature, but if it was already confirmed, that they will be animated - I expect to have them.



#27
Quadrone

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They should if they want the game to have strong sales. Reviews will notice this and it will push away some of the less IE enthusiast crowd. 

 

Are you actually serious?

Do you mean to tell me that animated vegetation is some huge sales factor?

 

Yes, because out of all the animations this has been most asked about feature. 

 

 

Okay but that still only makes it somewhat popular eyecandy.

Considering the target audience for PoE, who goes "Wow, I love party based, isometric RtwP RPGs! What? No animated trees and grass? NO sale!"

Missing background animations won't stop anyone who really considered buying PoE from doing so. Bugs, bad combat mechanics, a boring story, etc ... might.


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#28
Doppelschwert

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I think the most asked visual feature has actually been toning down the over-the-top spells effects and having more attack animations. People will look at the combat for way longer than at the grass and repetitive/obstructing combat animations will certainly attract more negative attention in the gaming press as well.


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#29
Quantics

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I think the most asked visual feature has actually been toning down the over-the-top spells effects and having more attack animations. People will look at the combat for way longer than at the grass and repetitive/obstructing combat animations will certainly attract more negative attention in the gaming press as well.

 

Indeed, but also don't forget adding contrast to the character models. At the moment they blend with the environment too much. I think it also really contributes to making combat illegible.


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#30
Lephys

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They should if they want the game to have strong sales. Reviews will notice this and it will push away some of the less IE enthusiast crowd.


I'm sorry, but if the thing that makes someone not buy the game (or, on the other hand, TO buy the game) is whether or not it has moving immaculately-hand-crafted backgrounds or just static ones, I don't think they should be playing this game. That's kind of like saying "If the football players on the field all wear neon green jerseys, that'll get rid of a lot of people who don't like neon green."

No one's gonna say "Wait, they put environment animations in? Well, I wasn't interested in that game at all, but NOW I'M STOKED! 8D!"

#31
Gairnulf

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They should if they want the game to have strong sales. Reviews will notice this and it will push away some of the less IE enthusiast crowd.

I'm sorry, but if the thing that makes someone not buy the game (or, on the other hand, TO buy the game) is whether or not it has moving immaculately-hand-crafted backgrounds or just static ones, I don't think they should be playing this game. That's kind of like saying "If the football players on the field all wear neon green jerseys, that'll get rid of a lot of people who don't like neon green."No one's gonna say "Wait, they put environment animations in? Well, I wasn't interested in that game at all, but NOW I'M STOKED! 8D!"

Yeah, the argument's logic reminds me of "If I can't play poly-quasi-demi-backflip-sexual firedwarf, then I won't buy this game because I wouldn't be able to identify with my character".

#32
archangel979

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They should if they want the game to have strong sales. Reviews will notice this and it will push away some of the less IE enthusiast crowd.


I'm sorry, but if the thing that makes someone not buy the game (or, on the other hand, TO buy the game) is whether or not it has moving immaculately-hand-crafted backgrounds or just static ones, I don't think they should be playing this game. That's kind of like saying "If the football players on the field all wear neon green jerseys, that'll get rid of a lot of people who don't like neon green."

No one's gonna say "Wait, they put environment animations in? Well, I wasn't interested in that game at all, but NOW I'M STOKED! 8D!"

Maybe not, but it might push them over the ledge.
Also with your argument we can remove or add any one feature and claim nobody is going to buy or not buy due to just that one feature. Where is the limit?

#33
J.E. Sawyer

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Hi, kloperius.  We did early experiments with trees and grass and they were... okay.  We believe it does really help areas feel more alive, but we weren't happy with how they looked given the amount of time we put into them.  It's something we would like to revisit for future projects, but we didn't have time to keep experimenting once we entered full area production.  



#34
Lephys

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Maybe not, but it might push them over the ledge.
Also with your argument we can remove or add any one feature and claim nobody is going to buy or not buy due to just that one feature. Where is the limit?


It might, but again, if that, specifically, is what pushes them over the ledge, then how significant is all the other stuff in the game to that person, truly?

I'm not judging what people like and don't like. But, if you don't like 90% of a game enough to want that game even if something as insignificant (to actual gameplay/game design) as some environment aesthetics is removed, then how badly do you really want that game in the first place?

If a given person would be pushed over the ledge from that, then fine. But, I don't think that should really be high on the list of worries for the design team. "Oh crap... how can we keep those people that are hardly enthusiastic about much in our game but moving environments?!"

That's what I'm getting at.

I dunno how many things you could remove, because it depends on what they are. Certain things have measurably different significance in game design. They don't need animated environments to fulfill the "like the IE games!" premise, nor do they need it to enhance any given player's capability to play the game. So, that just leaves people who happen to not be able to stand non-animated environments, which, honestly, is probably a pretty small group.

#35
archangel979

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It does not matter now. The Overlord has spoken and told us it is not going to be in PoE but they still want it for future games. So lets leave it at that.

#36
IRMA

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In the first video presentation of PoE Josh said, that there will be animated background like trees and grass, and we've even saw it working. I was surprised too, that in BB backgrounds are static. I don't mind if it will be static or not, it's a minor feature, but if it was already confirmed, that they will be animated - I expect to have them.

exactly, i pointed it out few times before beta, but never got any reaction. I still hope they will do it somewhere near the end of production once all areas are done, and it is one of the most important tools to create realistic environment

#37
Lephys

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It does not matter now. The Overlord has spoken and told us it is not going to be in PoE but they still want it for future games. So lets leave it at that.


It matters exactly as much now as it did before, however much that was. If "Oh no, won't that drive people away?" was a legitimate concern of yours, then I don't see why you're suddenly no longer worried whether it will or won't be a big deal to sales numbers and game popularity, simply because the design isn't going to be changed at this point. It's not as if the results of that decision have ceased to be.

But, if you'd simply no longer care to discuss it, that's fine, and we'll do that. No worries.

#38
lolaldanee

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a slight animation would be nice, like in the early video







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