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Combat XP Poll - Let's See What We Think Now

Combat XP Poll  

291 members have voted

  1. 1. Now that you have had a taste of it, what do you think of no kill xp?

    • I love this system and I am glad the game went in this direction.
      89
    • I slightly prefer this system.
      45
    • I think it makes little difference.
      23
    • I dislike this system somewhat.
      59
    • I hate this system and think it makes combat less rewarding.
      75


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I will ask again, because I'm somehow ignored the first time when I try to bring up relevant points to a discussion... <_<

 

What happens when you don't get the quest about the ogre from the farmer but instead just go to the ogre on your own?

Nothing happens. You can kill the Ogre and he drops his head and some blood. If you're role playing a sicko packrat, you will have a valid RP reason for collecting that ogre head and placing it in your pack (you're a sicko pack rat!). If not, well, good luck finding a justification for your Meta-gaming/ESP. And that's it. You can then go meet the farmer for the first time, listen to his plight, and what he wants you to do, Then in that same dialogue you can show him the ogre's head. If you're lucky, you get XP for that. Welcome to fetch-quests 101.

 

But make no mistake about this: If you go to that wilderness map before talking to anyone in the village, EVERYTHING you do there is unrewarded. No XP for exploration. No XP for clearing that giant cult dungeon. No XP for using your Might skill to force open the dungeon's entrance. No XP for slaughtering all the beetles and spiders that "block your path" to the ogre cave. No XP for entering that cave. No XP for dealing with the enemy party up north (even if you do it peacefully, which is an option). No XP for successfully Athletic-ing the Dragon Egg down from the ledge. NADA.

 

Is this supposed to be anyone's idea of proper RPG design?

 

 

"I am absolutely sure this is not a bug or unfinished content in a beta, and that the final game will work in the exact same way. Hear me roar!"

 

"Experience is awarded only through quest progression. At certain points during quests a "Quest Update" scroll pops up in the top left and any experience gained is shown in the Combat Log.

 

 

You may have just missed it :bow:"

link

  • Like 1

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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Most RPGs give out XP for kills, and yes it is grinding when the benefit of being a higher level, which means you will be more powerful, which means that you will stay alive longer and easier, means that it rewards you to mindlessly chop on schleps to get better.  One of the Final Fantasy's (I think 13) capped your level per area so that you wouldn't feel the need to grind on mobs forever just to gain the highest level, so that your encounters almost become trivial.  Now am I saying this game should adopt that system, heck no, it won't work.  FF is linear, this is generally not.

 

Having a system that rewards you for doing the quests, achieve something, discover something, kill something awesome, now that is more fun.  I don't want to grind on beetles forever, just to overlevel so that I can run through everything else in the area easily.  They should just be roadblocks, as they are now.

 

In BG there was other options to grind, then again if you went to any specific location to do something that required combat, you cleared the zone before continuing.  Not that you needed to clear the zone, you just did to maximize your xp for the area.  I do hope that fighting specific mobs and discovering things gives you xp in the future, right now the current system isn't enough for those that wish to just wander.

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In BG there was other options to grind, then again if you went to any specific location to do something that required combat, you cleared the zone before continuing.  Not that you needed to clear the zone, you just did to maximize your xp for the area. 

Glad to realize that you can magically know how everybody played the game. Perhaps you should use "I" instead of "you" since you are referring to your own experience. I get that you are kinda OCD and feel the need to squeeze every bit of xp out of the game, but that shouldn't be used as justification to remove a feature since that is kind of your issue and not anyone else's.

Edited by Namutree
  • Like 2

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Here's another problem I have with the quest-based XP setup. The game is supposed to be fairly expansive and encourage exploration, right? There will most likely be a whole lot of quests and quest-givers. Even if quest-givers reward you for already 'completed' quests if you talk to them after the fact, what happens if you never run across them? I feel like there's far too much riding on the quest turn in. I'm fine with a smaller "micro-objective" system rather than kill-XP, but even with finished games, questlines can break.

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I don't see the point of limiting my RP options, to be honest.

 

I want to explore and roam? Give me exploration XP.

I want to fight? Give me combat XP. Combat is A HUUUUUGE part of RPG games.

I want to quest? Give me quest XP.

 

I mean, Dragon Age: Origins, for example, did it right...

Again, no need to reinvent the wheel here.

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"Experience is awarded only through quest progression. At certain points during quests a "Quest Update" scroll pops up in the top left and any experience gained is shown in the Combat Log.

 

You may have just missed it :bow:"

 

link

 

He MAY just be referring to the beta. I hope...


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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"Experience is awarded only through quest progression. At certain points during quests a "Quest Update" scroll pops up in the top left and any experience gained is shown in the Combat Log.

 

You may have just missed it :bow:"

 

link

He MAY just be referring to the beta. I hope...

 

:no:

 

That is the currently implemented quest system. Doesn't mean it can't be changed though.


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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I will ask again, because I'm somehow ignored the first time when I try to bring up relevant points to a discussion... <_<

 

What happens when you don't get the quest about the ogre from the farmer but instead just go to the ogre on your own?

Nothing happens. You can kill the Ogre and he drops his head and some blood. If you're role playing a sicko packrat, you will have a valid RP reason for collecting that ogre head and placing it in your pack (you're a sicko pack rat!). If not, well, good luck finding a justification for your Meta-gaming/ESP. And that's it. You can then go meet the farmer for the first time, listen to his plight, and what he wants you to do, Then in that same dialogue you can show him the ogre's head. If you're lucky, you get XP for that. Welcome to fetch-quests 101.

 

But make no mistake about this: If you go to that wilderness map before talking to anyone in the village, EVERYTHING you do there is unrewarded. No XP for exploration. No XP for clearing that giant cult dungeon. No XP for using your Might skill to force open the dungeon's entrance. No XP for slaughtering all the beetles and spiders that "block your path" to the ogre cave. No XP for entering that cave. No XP for dealing with the enemy party up north (even if you do it peacefully, which is an option). No XP for successfully Athletic-ing the Dragon Egg down from the ledge. NADA.

 

Is this supposed to be anyone's idea of proper RPG design?

 

 

I totally agree, this is flat out terrible design which openly discourages the player from bothering with exploring an area, creating a very linear sense of progression.

There's one, and only one "right", "correct" way to play the game - focus on the main quest (occasionally, a few optional ones) and ignore everything else, because you do not get rewarded for it, in fact, by forcing you to fight anything, game designers are blatantly wasting your time.

 

Sure, don't give us XP for every monster slain, but at least give us some experience points for that group (emphasis on: entire group!) of super-tough enemies hiding in a cave or those packs(!) of beetles roaming the map. Killing a pack of foes should be considered an "objective" worth rewarding the player for, otherwise, every single combat encounter is utterly pointless and serves no other purpose but to artificially make the game last longer.

Edited by Phinelete
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He MAY just be referring to the beta. I hope...

 

:no:

 

That is the currently implemented quest system. Doesn't mean it can't be changed though.

 

Please, Obsidian; let me explore like in BG. That's all I want. To have that epic exploration again...


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Namutree, it isn't just me.  One of the things that turns off people from games like BG because you want to be the most powerful possible, but to do that you must grind.  You might have had a different experience, but you are in the minority.

 

As I said though, this system is better than the majority of the other systems.  Could it be better?  Hell yeah. I agree there should be xp for exploration. There should be xp for defeating tough monsters. There should be non-quest related xp gaining, that isn't killing a beetle.

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Namutree, it isn't just me.  One of the things that turns off people from games like BG because you want to be the most powerful possible, but to do that you must grind.  You might have had a different experience, but you are in the minority.

 

Now see that is just a wild guess you are peddling as facts.

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I'm giving Obsidian a week to at least mention that in the future xp won't be quest f**kin' exclusive. After that; I'm done following poe's development. If things don't change I won't even get my digital copy; it'll be a waste of memory.

Edited by Namutree

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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I'm giving Obsidian a week to at least mention that in the future xp won't be quest f**kin' exclusive. After that; I'm done following poe's development. If things don't change I won't even get my digital copy; it'll be a waste of memory.

 

You'll be back.


Curious about the subraces in Pillars of Eternity? Check out 

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It is for the better this way. XP on kills encourages player to take optimal paths in rpg games which hurts the whole choose your path portion in the rpg. Dumb making a game that gives the player options and reputations but have everyone follow the same route because "X" route gives more xp gains. I think in witcher 2? People went this one route in the story not because of whats going on in the story and what they prefer but because of xp gain which is really dumb.

So what will powerplayers do? They will complete every possible sidequest, fed'exing stuff around the world and always being a good boyscout, no matter if it goes against their party ethics or such.

That is just bad quest design which has nothing to do with xp system.

it has, since you can't progress otherwise.

 

People will always aim for the highest reward; gimping a game to force one way of playing doesn't solve the proble at the heart.

 

Nah now you got those players who decide to go full retard psychopath route in fallout games and end up at pathetic level of 13 where someone being a goody two shoes would be level 18 or higher. Be at the same level now.

 

The problem is you guys too hooked on combat kill xp in rpgs. There plenty of fun rpgs that are not about being a crack whore that needs to fill a xp bar. The Last Remant a cool rpg where there isn't much grinding involved. Crafting new weapons and obtaining new weapons for your party members is way more useful to your progress in power then killing everything you see. Vagrant story old playstation dungeon crawler rpg where for a dungeon crawler you don't actually have to kill much at all but rather craft gear and itemize efficiently well help you considerably. 

Edited by Failion

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