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Ragg

The skill system is a mess

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What's the point of tying skill bonuses to classes and then giving you a bunch of skill points on level up. I highly doubt that people are going to put points into skills that they didn't get a bonus to, and also the ones that start with 3 bonuses are worse because if you pump 3 skills you won't be able to reliably unlock skill options. Furthermore the whole skill points on level up thing is stupid because nobody is going to suddenly change what skill they've been leveling, for the same reason. If I'm in the part of the game where you need an average of 10 to unlock options, why would I start leveling a new skill? It just doesn't seem very well thought out at all.

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Assigning points might seem stupid if you are playing a balanced party. But let's say you want to go crazy and make a party of 6 paladins. Assigning points lets you have 6 paladins with different skills. It of course also lets you make a completely useless party skill wise. I'd personally rather have the freedom to screw up, but also make wacky parties.

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What's the point of tying skill bonuses to classes and then giving you a bunch of skill points on level up. I highly doubt that people are going to put points into skills that they didn't get a bonus to, and also the ones that start with 3 bonuses are worse because if you pump 3 skills you won't be able to reliably unlock skill options. Furthermore the whole skill points on level up thing is stupid because nobody is going to suddenly change what skill they've been leveling, for the same reason. If I'm in the part of the game where you need an average of 10 to unlock options, why would I start leveling a new skill? It just doesn't seem very well thought out at all.

 

Hmm, I totally disagree.  Skills are tied to several things.  There are those random events that pop up, the combat options, and stuff like unlocking doors and chests.  If it's balanced correctly, it makes sense to have a little knowledge in everything, but to only really focus on one or two things.  It also makes sense, that skills would take less effort to get adept, but much more to master.

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6 Characters:

Character 1: Athletics Focus

Character 2: Lore Focus

Character 3: Mechanics Focus

Character 4: Survival Focus

Character 5/6: Whatever you want.

 

Right now you only need 1 point in stealth to get pretty close to things. So unless you want an uber stealth party, why would anyone not do the listed setup? Everything is covered with room to spare. 

Edited by Bazy

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*cough* So *cough* Wasteland 2 similar Skill System?

Think about it.

- When you leveled up in the Infinity Engine games you got points to distribute, on lots of things. In Baldur's Gate less, in Icewind Dale more. I personally prefer the former. Can Weapon Talents and some Passive Abilities be added in as well into the Skill System? (I.E: allocating points on "Knight" so it becomes "Level 3" instead of on, say, "Survival") This would make the skill system much more diverse, varified and interesting. Add more skills to this list is my suggestion.

I like the interface, button-clicking, aesthetics, but it looks... empty. 4 skills?

 

The question is: Is it an easily implementable idea, or maybe it is what Obsidian is already planning?

The 4 skills themselves are well presented and interesting, but it feels as if (from a UI perspective and Player management of the Character Sheet) that it'd be better to group some "Abilities" into "Skills" instead. For administrative purposes, macro-management (checking equipment, skills, experience to level, stats, leveling up).

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6 Characters:

Character 1: Athletics Focus

Character 2: Lore Focus

Character 3: Mechanics Focus

Character 4: Survival Focus

Character 5/6: Whatever you want.

 

Right now you only need 1 point in stealth to get pretty close to things. So unless you want an uber stealth party, why would anyone not do the listed setup? Everything is covered with room to spare. 

There are a couple downsides to this, for example you have to cross a chasm with a grappling hook and everyone with low athletics becomes critically fatigued (huge accuracy penalties), also conversation skill checks can only be unlocked by your PC.

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Assigning points might seem stupid if you are playing a balanced party. But let's say you want to go crazy and make a party of 6 paladins. Assigning points lets you have 6 paladins with different skills. It of course also lets you make a completely useless party skill wise. I'd personally rather have the freedom to screw up, but also make wacky parties.

True. I kinda wish they'd just remove the skill bonuses from the classes entirely. An interesting option, in my mind, would be to tie it to your starting background.

Edited by Ragg
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6 Characters:

Character 1: Athletics Focus

Character 2: Lore Focus

Character 3: Mechanics Focus

Character 4: Survival Focus

Character 5/6: Whatever you want.

 

Right now you only need 1 point in stealth to get pretty close to things. So unless you want an uber stealth party, why would anyone not do the listed setup? Everything is covered with room to spare. 

There are a couple downsides to this, for example you have to cross a chasm with a grappling hook and everyone with low athletics becomes critically fatigued (huge accuracy penalties), also conversation skill checks can only be unlocked by your PC.

 

Fatigue? Is that an actual mechanic? I didn't experience anything like that.

 

Regarding the PC then he can be one of the toons that do whatever he wants for the convo skill checks. That still leaves 5 other toons for 4 other skills. Even if "fatigue" exists I'm guessing being able to "pass" every single scripted event in the game would be worth the trade off. 

Edited by Bazy

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Yeah fatigue is an actual mechanic. I've seen characters get light fatigue for no particular reason. I guess maybe from fighting a lot? And then the characters with low Athletics got critical fatigue from crossing the chasm.

 

I do agree that the optimal thing is to make sure each party member has a high enough skill to beat the scripted interactions. Probably pumping Lore on my PC since it seems to come up a lot in convos.

Edited by Ragg

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Yeah fatigue is an actual mechanic. I've seen characters get light fatigue for no particular reason. I guess maybe from fighting a lot? And then the characters with low Athletics got critical fatigue from crossing the chasm.

 

I do agree that the optimal thing is to make sure each party member has a high enough skill to beat the scripted interactions. Probably pumping Lore on my PC since it seems to come up a lot in convos.

Yah just found a food that removes fatigue... hopefully you can't just eat your way out of it. 

 

Also kind of sucks that only PC skills go to convos. Like you're saying it's pushing you towards lore simply because that's what the convo's require the most. Not for any other reason. 

Edited by Bazy
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Yeah fatigue is an actual mechanic. I've seen characters get light fatigue for no particular reason. I guess maybe from fighting a lot? And then the characters with low Athletics got critical fatigue from crossing the chasm.

 

I do agree that the optimal thing is to make sure each party member has a high enough skill to beat the scripted interactions. Probably pumping Lore on my PC since it seems to come up a lot in convos.

Yah just found a food that removes fatigue... hopefully you can't just eat your way out of it. 

 

Also kind of sucks that only PC skills go to convos. Like you're saying it's pushing you towards lore simply because that's what the convo's require the most. Not for any other reason. 

 

I can deal with the food much more than I can live with having to push my PC towards lore just to keep up in convos.

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I think it makes sense that there's a point in which you must "give up" on certain low-level skills and pick a few you commit too. You have a party, you don't need EVERYONE to have high mechanics, just the resident mechanic guy. That way everyone in your party has a specific use. It makes little sense for the mage to suddenly branch out into athletics mid way through the adventure.

Of curse, this could pose a problem with things like "Lore" playing a large part in conversation, because only the PC's Lore rating in used, but as long as they give just as much content to the other skills in conversation and out of it you won't feel cheat out of any content for not going with Lore for the PC.

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What's the point of tying skill bonuses to classes and then giving you a bunch of skill points on level up. I highly doubt that people are going to put points into skills that they didn't get a bonus to, and also the ones that start with 3 bonuses are worse because if you pump 3 skills you won't be able to reliably unlock skill options. Furthermore the whole skill points on level up thing is stupid because nobody is going to suddenly change what skill they've been leveling, for the same reason. If I'm in the part of the game where you need an average of 10 to unlock options, why would I start leveling a new skill? It just doesn't seem very well thought out at all.

Solution... See BG2 - Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V.

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I tend to agree with Ragg. Skill systems like those in DnD Next or SW Saga which let you pick proficient skills at creation tend to seem better to me for a party/class based game.

 

Edit: I would let the player pick a skill to be proficient in from a list of available class skills and then let choose one additional proficiency from the entire pool of skills based on the background they choose. Skills should increase with character level and get a bonus if the character is proficient in the skill, has an appropriate skill bonus talent and/or has a stat high enough to give a stat bonus to the skill.

Edited by Shevek

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