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Experience point system in the beta and onwards

Your thoughts on the xp system in the beta  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of xp system to do you want to see after having played the beta?

    • Quest xp only
      30
    • Quest xp and objectives that are large in scope
      52
    • Objective xp that are per dungeon or per map (minus bosses), including exploration and quest xp
      78
    • Objective xp per encounter (including "trash mobs"), per picked lock, per sneak, etc., plus quest xp
      53
    • Kill xp plus quest xp
      76


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Even if every backer voted for "something other than quest only XP" it still wouldn't change anything, because Sawyer thinks this system is perfect.

 

<_< How about you cite your sources on that? :p Both on Sawyer thinking its perfect and that being cause of why it will never be changed?...

 

Does it even matter?

 

There will never be an official vote and Sawyer will never change the xp system either. I hope you enjoyed my hyperbole though.

  • Like 1

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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Even if every backer voted for "something other than quest only XP" it still wouldn't change anything, because Sawyer thinks this system is perfect.

 

<_< How about you cite your sources on that? :p Both on Sawyer thinking its perfect and that being cause of why it will never be changed?...

 

Does it even matter?

 

There will never be an official vote and Sawyer will never change the xp system either. I hope you enjoyed my hyperbole though.

 

 

I would be very surprised if he will. There is a reason, after all, why some people are now calling PoE Josh's Dream RPG. There are too many things 'out of place' (for a lack of better term) in this game to be called 'a spiritual successor to the IE games'.

 

I will reaffirm this concept again: the lack of combat XP alone doesn't make or break this game... but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

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Even if every backer voted for "something other than quest only XP" it still wouldn't change anything, because Sawyer thinks this system is perfect.

<_< How about you cite your sources on that? :p Both on Sawyer thinking its perfect and that being cause of why it will never be changed?...

 

Does it even matter?

 

There will never be an official vote and Sawyer will never change the xp system either. I hope you enjoyed my hyperbole though.

 

 

I would be very surprised if he will. There is a reason, after all, why some people are now calling PoE Josh's Dream RPG. There are too many things 'out of place' (for a lack of better term) in this game to be called 'a spiritual successor to the IE games'.

 

I will reaffirm this concept again: the lack of combat XP alone doesn't make or break this game... but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Yeah, I noticed. The RPG codex was especially harsh.

 

It seems to be true though.


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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Even if every backer voted for "something other than quest only XP" it still wouldn't change anything, because Sawyer thinks this system is perfect.

<_< How about you cite your sources on that? :p Both on Sawyer thinking its perfect and that being cause of why it will never be changed?...

 

Does it even matter?

 

There will never be an official vote and Sawyer will never change the xp system either. I hope you enjoyed my hyperbole though.

 

 

I would be very surprised if he will. There is a reason, after all, why some people are now calling PoE Josh's Dream RPG. There are too many things 'out of place' (for a lack of better term) in this game to be called 'a spiritual successor to the IE games'.

 

I will reaffirm this concept again: the lack of combat XP alone doesn't make or break this game... but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Yeah, I noticed. The RPG codex was especially harsh.

 

It seems to be true though.

 

 

 

That's like saying the sun was especially hot.. It's the codex.. lmao.

Edited by Immortalis

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Thinking ahead, since we will have to return to the quest hub over and over to collect our quest XP, maybe they can add some kind of fast travel that automatically brings you back to the hub when it comes time to turn in.

 

Another thing Im wondering, we know the game is balanced for the crit path, right? We also know we can only level up by turning in quests back at the quest hubs. So what happens if you've done the crit path stuff and now you head out into the wilderness? Since some non crit path encounters will be well over your current level, how do you ever level up enough to tackle the higher level non crit path quests? Furthermore, how do I level up to tackle the Endless Paths which are specifically designed to out level the party? Am I only going to be able to handle the 15th level at the end of the game when Ive finally turned in that last quest and leveled up?

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Thinking ahead, since we will have to return to the quest hub over and over to collect our quest XP, maybe they can add some kind of fast travel that automatically brings you back to the hub when it comes time to turn in.

 

Another thing Im wondering, we know the game is balanced for the crit path, right? We also know we can only level up by turning in quests back at the quest hubs. So what happens if you've done the crit path stuff and now you head out into the wilderness? Since some non crit path encounters will be well over your current level, how do you ever level up enough to tackle the higher level non crit path quests? Furthermore, how do I level up to tackle the Endless Paths which are specifically designed to out level the party? Am I only going to be able to handle the 15th level at the end of the game when Ive finally turned in that last quest and leveled up?

Are you talking about how you'd tackle this if you've hit the level cap or not?

 

I'm assuming not because if after it'd be no different than tackling the IE games at level cap. I'd suspect the question comes down to whether there will be objectives (and thus objective XP) tied to specific types of exploration (like whether advancing to the next level of Od Nua will lead to extra XP).

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I think it is quite representative. Eve if it's only ~250 persons who voted out of the 71000 backers, the sampled population is composed of persons who care enough about this game to follow the forums and that probably also pledged quite a hefty amount of money to access, among other things, the beta.

 

The general opinion outside this forum about Pillars of Eternity it's either: "Pillars of what?!?" or "it will be like BG2 in a different setting".

 

 

I specificially said the problem isn't just the sample size. The poll is most likely biased, but we can only guess about that part. It doesn't represent the 71k backers because the highly invested ones are overrepresented, not despite that.

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I think it is quite representative. Eve if it's only ~250 persons who voted out of the 71000 backers, the sampled population is composed of persons who care enough about this game to follow the forums and that probably also pledged quite a hefty amount of money to access, among other things, the beta.

 

The general opinion outside this forum about Pillars of Eternity it's either: "Pillars of what?!?" or "it will be like BG2 in a different setting".

 

 

I specificially said the problem isn't just the sample size. The poll is most likely biased, but we can only guess about that part. It doesn't represent the 71k backers because the highly invested ones are overrepresented, not despite that.

 

 

I don't think the poll is biased.. the loudest voices will always be the ones heard.. we can't possibly send this poll to every backer via email but I don't think the poll's design was biased in favor of any choice.. it represents in broad strokes all the rough mechanics people want

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From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Thinking ahead, since we will have to return to the quest hub over and over to collect our quest XP, maybe they can add some kind of fast travel that automatically brings you back to the hub when it comes time to turn in.

 

Another thing Im wondering, we know the game is balanced for the crit path, right? We also know we can only level up by turning in quests back at the quest hubs. So what happens if you've done the crit path stuff and now you head out into the wilderness? Since some non crit path encounters will be well over your current level, how do you ever level up enough to tackle the higher level non crit path quests? Furthermore, how do I level up to tackle the Endless Paths which are specifically designed to out level the party? Am I only going to be able to handle the 15th level at the end of the game when Ive finally turned in that last quest and leveled up?

Side-quests give xp too - so if you never do any side-quests, you'll be slightly behind the curve.  But the crit-path gives enough xp to reach  level 10-11 (last I heard, sorry, no quote), so you won't be too far behind.  But if you do some side-quests in the areas you visit, you'll level up slightly faster.

 

The Endless Paths contains xp - just not enough on each floor to level you for the next floor.  Depending on how good you are and how well-balanced your team is, you may be able to get slightly further in it before having to bug-out.  The final floor will probably need a level-12 team playing well to beat (I hope so at least).

 

^The above is based on old info ... back when I thought it was objective-xp .... but should still hold true under quest-xp.

Just not sure what 'quests' we'll be given in the Endless Paths - either subterranean sentient beings need the rats clearing or an upside feller gives you the quest 'bring me what you find down there' *shrug*

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_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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I think it is quite representative. Eve if it's only ~250 persons who voted out of the 71000 backers, the sampled population is composed of persons who care enough about this game to follow the forums and that probably also pledged quite a hefty amount of money to access, among other things, the beta.

 

The general opinion outside this forum about Pillars of Eternity it's either: "Pillars of what?!?" or "it will be like BG2 in a different setting".

 

 

I specificially said the problem isn't just the sample size. The poll is most likely biased, but we can only guess about that part. It doesn't represent the 71k backers because the highly invested ones are overrepresented, not despite that.

 

 

I don't think the poll is biased.. the loudest voices will always be the ones heard.. we can't possibly send this poll to every backer via email but I don't think the poll's design was biased in favor of any choice.. it represents in broad strokes all the rough mechanics people want

It's biased because people voting for change are more likely to bother voting than people who are happy or just don't care.

If the participants were selected at random from among the backers (via e-mail or whatever) and then they all returned a vote, it would be less biased.

It's not about the choices in the poll, it's about statistical bias.

 

But the poll's only for our benefit anyway to give us an idea of what we're all thinking.  It needn't be foolproof.

  • Like 3

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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"So it makes me wonder why they did not found that out earlier, reading the blog, interviews and watching videos would have made it clear in which direction the developer want to go."

 

It's not just about knowing or not knowing. It's also about being told to STFU and not make any judgements until we see things in actions. We've seen things in action. Not too impressed. Now, we're told it's just a beta (p.s. i don't mind the bugs as its a beta of course there's bugs i don't complain about those except in a haha way). When the game comes out we'll be told to shut it sicne we can't judge until we play the game 7 times. Then we'll be told no judgements allowed until we see the 'changes' in the expansion. AFTER THAT, we'll be told well.. if it's so awful why did you play the game so much? :p

 

 

p.s. Ultimately, the lame xp system won't  make me hate or like the game as other things are MORE important but that still doesn't chaneg the fact that 9thus far) PE's xp system sucks and si 1000x worse than SRR's xp system.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Just not sure what 'quests' we'll be given in the Endless Paths - either subterranean sentient beings need the rats clearing or an upside feller gives you the quest 'bring me what you find down there' *shrug*

 

This sounds horrible.. I expect so much better from Obsidian..

 

 

 

 

 

I think it is quite representative. Eve if it's only ~250 persons who voted out of the 71000 backers, the sampled population is composed of persons who care enough about this game to follow the forums and that probably also pledged quite a hefty amount of money to access, among other things, the beta.

 

The general opinion outside this forum about Pillars of Eternity it's either: "Pillars of what?!?" or "it will be like BG2 in a different setting".

 

 

I specificially said the problem isn't just the sample size. The poll is most likely biased, but we can only guess about that part. It doesn't represent the 71k backers because the highly invested ones are overrepresented, not despite that.

 

 

I don't think the poll is biased.. the loudest voices will always be the ones heard.. we can't possibly send this poll to every backer via email but I don't think the poll's design was biased in favor of any choice.. it represents in broad strokes all the rough mechanics people want

It's biased because people voting for change are more likely to bother voting than people who are happy or just don't care.

If the participants were selected at random from among the backers (via e-mail or whatever) and then they all returned a vote, it would be less biased.
It's not about the choices in the poll, it's about statistical bias.

 

But the poll's only for our benefit anyway to give us an idea of what we're all thinking.  It needn't be foolproof.

 

 

I disagree with your premise.. we have 200+ votes and about 1/10th that many people posting in this thread.. the poll has been available to people who don't actively discuss / debate / argue anything in this thread.. the only assumption you can make about the voters is.. they are people went to this forum and saw the topic and voted..

 

You can't say.. oh its only people who want change..

Edited by Immortalis

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Just not sure what 'quests' we'll be given in the Endless Paths - either subterranean sentient beings need the rats clearing or an upside feller gives you the quest 'bring me what you find down there' *shrug*

 

This sounds horrible.. I expect so much better from Obsidian.

 

Yes - I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about the 'quest-only-xp' system.  I'm sure the writing will be better than that

 

I disagree with your premise.. we have 200+ votes and about 1/10th that many people posting in this thread.. the poll has been available to people who don't actively discuss / debate / argue anything in this thread.. the only assumption you can make about the voters is.. they are people went to this forum and saw the topic and voted..

 

You can't say.. oh its only people who want change..

 

It's not my premise - I was merely explaining the difference between statistical bias and poll-Q bias.

In statistics, if the participants in a poll are self-selected, it's considered biased.  Since it's statistically more likely that certain types of voter will vote.  Or something.

(You mentioned the choices in the poll as being unbiased so I thought I'd try to clarify what was meant by others when they said it was biased)

We've no way of knowing if the participants in this poll are representative - but like I said, it's enough for discussion purposes.  If Obsidian were going to pay attention to a poll, they'd need to do one themselves.

:dragon:

Edited by Silent Winter

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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George Ziets' impressions of the Beta:

 

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

 

 

:grin: 
 

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I guess the core activity of the game is just questing, that is why you don't get XP for anything else <shrug>

 

Maybe they should rename the game to Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests

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Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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I guess the core activity of the game is just questing, that is why you don't get XP for anything else <shrug>

 

Maybe they should rename the game to Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests

 

I guess the core activity of the game is just questing, that is why you don't get XP for anything else <shrug>

 

Maybe they should rename the game to Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests

 

Baldurs Gate: Throne of Sawyer  <- Mine

SuckMyDick : Josh Sawyers Game  <- Joshes Game Title on the SA forums

 

ect.. ect... I like yours the best :lol:

 

 

EDITTING FOR CONTEXT

 

http://forums.someth...40&pagenumber=2

 

"That's genuinely cool, but we didn't Kickstart a game called gently caress You: Suck My ****: Josh Sawyer's Personal Dream RPG Experience where I do whatever I personally think is sound and neat and good. For better or worse, this was pitched as an IE-like game. It's great that you view the experiences as more abstract than the nuts and bolts, but no, people clearly do not trust me/us to make a good game that is significantly mechanically different. And I know from experience that sort of attitude can poison a player's entire reception of the game.

 

I have had the pleasure to work on a project where I just got to do whatever I wanted and that was pretty cool. I don't know how many people would have played that weird-rear end game, but the publisher wasn't really concerned, so I went wild. Very few projects are like that. This project is not like that and I feel like we have never pitched it as though it were." - Josh Sawyer

Edited by Immortalis
  • Like 2

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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So another question for anyone with a working Beta. Since XP is quest based only, what if anything were you awarded for the cultist dungeon. For me, I walked up on the statue, successfully pushed it to the side, then went into the dungeon and cleared it. Since nobody told me to do that, did I earn any XP? (I honestly cant tell if I did or not because everything is broken in my games).

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Well, after progressing as far as I can in the beta, each member of my party is up to level 6 and has 17350 XP. I regrettably didn't pay enough attention to tell you when each bit of XP dropped. My party leveled up after confronting the nobleman in the inn (after resolving the situation with the cultists), so at least some of it was earned there. I may or may not go back through the beta before they push an update, if I do I'll keep track of where all the XP drops and report it here.


"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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"That's genuinely cool, but we didn't Kickstart a game called gently caress You: Suck My ****: Josh Sawyer's Personal Dream RPG Experience where I do whatever I personally think is sound and neat and good. 

 

Ahh, so that is where that quote came from. lol  :woot:


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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"That's genuinely cool, but we didn't Kickstart a game called gently caress You: Suck My ****: Josh Sawyer's Personal Dream RPG Experience where I do whatever I personally think is sound and neat and good. 

 

Ahh, so that is where that quote came from. lol  :woot:

 

 

 

For people who don't know.. SA censors words into more playful nice versions.. gently carress means F*CK .. incase the wording seemed weird. The name is being ironic.. JE is saying that isn't the game he set out to make.. so I don't wanna misrepresent him or whatever..

 

But those of us who have been in that thread.. this is the reference we have been making.. :woot:


From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Fukk You: Suck My Dikk: Josh Sawyer's Dream RPG Experience

 

It fits real good actually. They should rename the game. lol


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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