Jump to content

  

171 members have voted

  1. 1. When and where should you be able to level up?

    • Whenever I want to - even in middle of combat
      41
    • Anywhere outside of combat
      88
    • While resting
      23
    • Whenever I'm in a "safe" area (town, stronghold)
      13
    • Only in specific locations like inns or player house, resting possibly required
      2
    • You're a fool and should be eaten, none of these describe how I feel!
      4


Recommended Posts

You see the cross appear on your portrait, you hear that sweet sound... it's time to level up!

 

However, in some games it's not that simple - you might only be able to level up while resting, for example. While that idea is a remnant from tabletop games where it makes a lot of sense, there are some arguments to why it could be a good thing in CRPGs as well. So what do you think, should there be some limits to how, when and where you're able to level up you characters?

 

Personally I'm voting for while resting, but honestly I'm a bit torn between most of the latter options.

Edited by Caerdon
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm torn between While Resting and In a Safe Area.

 

Now, it's not that big a deal, in my opinion, but it just feels more right if character growth requires some rest and contemplation. You don't work out real hard just before you go sportsing, so it just feels a little weird to be able to level up out in the field.

  • Like 2

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Level-up in the field while resting, otherwise in 'safe' areas. Yes, this means that if you don't manage your resources well, and thus, run out of supplies while out in the field, you won't be able to level-up until supplies are found or you're in a 'safe' area (towns, inns, stronghold, etc.).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty much, out of combat. That's what I'm used to in cRPGs. In P&P we usually waited until we rested and were at full hitpoints, but honestly I find that a bit onerous. If I'm more experienced in the middle of a dungeon, than I see no reason I can't level up at any point. I exclude combat, because combat should be focused on... combat.

Edited by Marceror

"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ideally, I'd prefer resting in safe areas. Infact, 'low levels' should have to find a trainer. That said, in a game like this? Anywhere, as long as you don't  get max health /spells/abilities back on level up like certain games. That's lame.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[ - - ] as long as you don't  get max health /spells/abilities back on level up like certain games. That's lame.

 

I agree. It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really dislike healing when levelling up, feels so phoney for some reason. However, if level up requires resting anyway.. more birds per stone.


This statement is false.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the free heal that comes with lvl-up does feel... weird. I mean, I've never had an insight which healed the itching mosquito bite...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like leveling up is much like a perspective shift, and as knowledge is gained, then you should immediately reap the benefits of it. If I'm trying to learn to ride a bike, I may fall off my bike a dozen times, but I shouldn't have to go home and sleep on it to learn how to do it. However, sometimes I do feel like certain tasks require an incubation time from the time you learn it and when you can activate that knowledge. Someone who has to meet a tight deadline, and it doesn't matter how it get's done, it must get done. So your brain somehow get's creative, and then you suddenly get the idea for how to solve the problem. In those types of instances, I think it's cool to "level up" when you're using a group to work together to accomplish a task. A coup de grace is an example of how it could be utilized in this game. Maybe in certain situations, the group learns a new tactic that's more effective for felling a giant beast for example.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason."

 

No more common than older games. For some reason. :rollseyes:


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like leveling up is much like a perspective shift, and as knowledge is gained, then you should immediately reap the benefits of it. If I'm trying to learn to ride a bike, I may fall off my bike a dozen times, but I shouldn't have to go home and sleep on it to learn how to do it. However, sometimes I do feel like certain tasks require an incubation time from the time you learn it and when you can activate that knowledge. Someone who has to meet a tight deadline, and it doesn't matter how it get's done, it must get done. So your brain somehow get's creative, and then you suddenly get the idea for how to solve the problem. In those types of instances, I think it's cool to "level up" when you're using a group to work together to accomplish a task. A coup de grace is an example of how it could be utilized in this game. Maybe in certain situations, the group learns a new tactic that's more effective for felling a giant beast for example.

I would say that leveling up is the growth of understanding as a whole; understanding being the coming together of intelligence and intellect, where intelligence is both the mind and the organism. We may gather lots of knowledge, but it's not until there is an understanding of that process that there is growth - which is when you level up. Albeit, I realize that this could actually happen in the field, so you would have to rest for the organism to 'level-up,' but for understanding, all that is needed is 'doing,' and you do that everywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My vote is for "While resting" but I would put that only for difficulties above normal. For normal and below I would rather have "Outside of combat".  No need to make life miserable for people new to IE style of games. Us IE veterans will be playing on harder difficulties anyways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason."

 

No more common than older games. For some reason. :rollseyes:

 

I guess it's just the games that I've played, then. I honestly can't remember any old-school game aside from Diablo where this happens. Maybe you can educate me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My vote is for "While resting" but I would put that only for difficulties above normal. For normal and below I would rather have "Outside of combat".  No need to make life miserable for people new to IE style of games. Us IE veterans will be playing on harder difficulties anyways. 

Why not make it adjustable? Or rather, have the option to customize the difficulty, including when you want to be able to level up? That seems like a win-win situation to me, as it allows you to really tailor a large part of the experience without removing the experience the developers intend. Albeit, that requires that you know what each setting does, of course. So, in normal difficulty and under you can level up anywhere, and above only while resting. But if that doesn't satisfy you, then why not just customize it so that it floats your boat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too will point out that I'd be okay really with any of the options around this. If Obsidian wants to make it so that leveling up is an event that requires a level of focus, and must be done in a safe place like an inn, I can certainly roll with that.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the free heal that comes with lvl-up does feel... weird. I mean, I've never had an insight which healed the itching mosquito bite...

I would prefer it both ways.

 

Resting at level up restores your health, but outside does not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah, the free heal that comes with lvl-up does feel... weird. I mean, I've never had an insight which healed the itching mosquito bite...

I would prefer it both ways.

 

Resting at level up restores your health, but outside does not.

 

Ah, of course, I agree. Leveling up without resting does not heal, but resting at level up does. That seems logical. But when you level up without resting and you are somehow healed by it, then that may be a severe case of a self-compelled and quite radical morphogenetic transformation (I mean, what the hell does that even mean!?). Wounds that might take say, eight hours to heal, simply vanish mysteriously in a moments notice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I voted any time outside combat but I'd also be happy with 'while resting'

 

And as Volourn and others have said: no free heals and spells back on level-up - keep it like IE games.

  • Like 1

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever I want. "Leveling up" is an abstraction that only makes sense from a meta perspective. In any world you don't become better at anything in discrete chunks; all improvement is gradual. Therefore, because it is an abstraction, I should be able to do it whenever I want, just like pausing the game, saving the game, loading the game, starting the game, or anything else that is not explicitly an action within the game world.

  • Like 2

"Of all the kids in The Breakfast Club, Ally Sheedy would be the first one to sense Cthulhu's coming." -Patton Oswalt 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever I want. "Leveling up" is an abstraction that only makes sense from a meta perspective. In any world you don't become better at anything in discrete chunks; all improvement is gradual. Therefore, because it is an abstraction, I should be able to do it whenever I want, just like pausing the game, saving the game, loading the game, starting the game, or anything else that is not explicitly an action within the game world.

 

That's not entirely true. Becoming better at something often requires a mental breakthrough or revelation, and that often happens through reflection.

 

For example, in my martial arts training I've often found that some new technique or skill eludes me the entire training session, but after having a good night's sleep and some time to go through it in my head I can immediately do it the very next day. Furthermore, if that breakthrough happens with some fundamental skill, it can affect everything you do, so that discrete chunk can sometimes be a rather big one.

 

Granted, that can also happen in middle of a sparring session, but that, to me, seems less common.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like cheese, so level up anytime + free heal. (whew saved me a couple times and you still have to rest for new spells etc.)

 

And of course, if you don't want to level up during combat, one can choose not to do so.

 

I thought both NWN 1-2 and Baldur's Gate allowed leveling during combat...though my memory is more fuzzy on the latter.

Edited by Sondai
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Whenever I want. "Leveling up" is an abstraction that only makes sense from a meta perspective. In any world you don't become better at anything in discrete chunks; all improvement is gradual. Therefore, because it is an abstraction, I should be able to do it whenever I want, just like pausing the game, saving the game, loading the game, starting the game, or anything else that is not explicitly an action within the game world.

 

That's not entirely true. Becoming better at something often requires a mental breakthrough or revelation, and that often happens through reflection.

 

For example, in my martial arts training I've often found that some new technique or skill eludes me the entire training session, but after having a good night's sleep and some time to go through it in my head I can immediately do it the very next day. Furthermore, if that breakthrough happens with some fundamental skill, it can affect everything you do, so that discrete chunk can sometimes be a rather big one.

 

Granted, that can also happen in middle of a sparring session, but that, to me, seems less common.

 

So, "often happens through reflection", not "always happens through reflection".

I feel this would be better be shown with a mechanic that gives you extra xp when resting, to whichever activities you did during the day.

 

I like cheese, so level up anytime + free heal. (whew saved me a couple times and you still have to rest for new spells etc.)

 

And of course, if you don't want to level up during combat, one can choose not to do so.

 

I thought both NWN 1-2 and Baldur's Gate allowed leveling during combat...though my memory is more fuzzy on the latter.

I like that too when it happens, but I dislike having the thought in my head that I should save my level ups to use them as heals during fights.

 

I think you should be able to level up without level up heal during fights though, makes the boss fights that much more epic when you level up on one of the adds and gets a new skill to kill the boss during the fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...