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So DA:I will have stronghold and crafting too

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Again, what really bugs me about BioWare isn't even so much the streamlined/simplified/twitchy/dumbed-down mechanics -- I can enjoy those perfectly well, if they're well executed, and BioWare's by and large are. What bugs me is that it would be so. simple. to make BioWare's games playing, like, before they hit the bargain bin -- all they'd need is tighter, more coherent, and more creative writing, and coherent, logical, and diverse worldbuilding. Neither of these would affect production costs one bit; they'd still need the same amount of writing and same amount of modeling and animation. It seems like such a colossal waste to put all that loving effort to bring to life a world that's fundamentally boring and lacking in consistency.

 

And when I really want to cry myself to sleep, I remind myself that BioWare is generally considered to be good when it comes to writing for games.

 

 

Bioware was releasing close to one game every 6 months between DA:O and ME3. The cost difference between good and bad writing may be a drop compared to the rest of their game's budgets, but good writing - and good anything, in fact - takes time. Those games were pretty much doomed to failure.

 

If there's one reason to be (cautiously) optimistic about DA:I, it's that Bioware is actually taking the time they need to make this game. And inversely, if it turns out like the previous ones, there'd be no more excuses: it'd mean Bioware really can't do better anymore.

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I wonder though, if the extended development time probably has more to do with the fact that they decided, midway through production, to offer more than 1 playable race. I also wonder if maybe the switch to a new engine has also taken up some extra time.

Edited by Stun

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Well, at least the fade tears make more sense than the we-must-kill-all-organic-life-to-save-organic-life Reapers.

Not just kill... brutally harvest and assimilate. For their own good, :)

 

An umpteen-billion-year-old entity couldn't come up with, say, a way to just kill people in their sleep and copy their brains or something. Nope.

 

Honestly, for a long while there, I highly suspected the plan was "give them a common enemy, until you know they won't destroy themselves." Which would've at least made sense. *shrug*...

 

I digress...

 

I wonder though, if the extended development time probably has more to do with the fact that they decided, midway through production, to offer more than 1 playable race. I also wonder if maybe the switch to a new engine has also taken up some extra time.

Hmm... either way, you would think the pre-production/writing crews and such wouldn't take as much of a hit from all that. The hardcore, really-hard-to-change engine work comes a bit later in the cycle, so the writing/design people at least have more time to work on stuff, either way. Not all the stuff, mind you, but the not-yet-processed-for-coding ideas, at least.

Edited by Lephys

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Bioware was releasing close to one game every 6 months between DA:O and ME3. The cost difference between good and bad writing may be a drop compared to the rest of their game's budgets, but good writing - and good anything, in fact - takes time. Those games were pretty much doomed to failure.

 

I disagree. Yes, good writing does take time, but if you have some decent writers on the payroll, it doesn't cost much -- and laying out the groundwork is not tied to production at all. 

 

I.e. if BioWare really cared about writing, they would have a bunch of high-level concept writers working all the time. Triage the ideas every once in a while, pick the promising ones, and have them lay out the groundwork in world building and main story arcs. If they had, say, three people like that, they could easily come up with three solid, interesting, well thought-out, and original settings and stories per year. That'll build a backlog of them to draw from. When the time comes to actually make a game, pick the most promising one from the stack and ramp it up. You wouldn't have to, like, start making a trilogy without having any clue about the main antagonist's motivation, or have plot holes big enough to drive a dreadnought through. Once a franchise picks up, assign one of those writers to developing it.

 

So yeah, that. I guess it just bugs me that BioWare are so often praised for their writing, when their writing is rubbish. There's just more of it there than in most other games. From where I'm at, two buckets of turds are not better than one bucket of turds, unless you're a gardener.

Edited by PrimeJunta
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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Bioware is kinda alone on the market pc since they're the only one to make a rpg with a team+romance.

No wonder, they're liked.

Even Divinity Original, which has a geat gameplay and cool writing but it doesn't bring any deph to relationships or good RP elements.

 

Unless Wasteland come in an give a good kick to Bioware writers saying : "look, you can do so much better if you do like me" or we will have to wait for POE to do it.

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 You wouldn't have to, like, start making a trilogy without having any clue about the main antagonist's motivation, or have plot holes big enough to drive a dreadnought through.

 

 

Oh dear God.  I remember when I played ME 1 I was kind of like 'wow these Reaper guys are pretty amazing opponents I hope they have their motivations and how to beat them carefully thought out or this awesome premise could go wrong.  Paying off villains like this would be tough.'  But they had not even thought of it yet?  That is amazing.  You think that would have been one of the first steps not something just to improvise later.  That does explain the bizarre nature of Mass Effect 2 though.

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Bioware has morphed into a hollywood studio or is the hollywood game studio now a days. Shallow stuff that looks fancy and their writing only seems to be deep but realy interesting conflicts within a story is not longer what they can do. It´s like transformer deepness mixed with some titanic drama. Maniac mansion is deeper then anything they wrote after after yes... choose your game.

 

Take COLONELS BEQUEST and show todays bioware writers what writing an interesting story with thrills is!

 

About strongholds...well i think it´s cool from Obsidian that we can get one as an ambience feature for romantic "adventures" ...not romantic romancers. EAware... i dont care. If people would have compared DA2 to the Witcher 2 DA2 would have got a rating of 0.5 out of 10!

 

And that is not a question of taste, but of quality in everything.

 

I´m so happy that Obsidian is NOT dependant on any "marcet" sniper sitting in an office with only money in his mind this time so every comparison goes like this.

 

AAA title that is hollywood style but sucks so or so (mass appeal) vs a hand crafted game done by an independant developer atm!

Edited by NWN_babaYaga

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Bioware is kinda alone on the market pc since they're the only one to make a rpg with a team+romance.

No wonder, they're liked.

Even Divinity Original, which has a geat gameplay and cool writing but it doesn't bring any deph to relationships or good RP elements.

 

Unless Wasteland come in an give a good kick to Bioware writers saying : "look, you can do so much better if you do like me" or we will have to wait for POE to do it.

 

I can't agree more. The fact that DA:I will have Romance is one of the  main reasons I am really excited about this game....roll on DA:I :dancing:  :dancing:


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I can't agree more. The fact that DA:I will have Romance is one of the  main reasons I am really excited about this game....roll on DA:I :dancing:  :dancing:

 

 

I look forward to your very detailed breakdown and review of every romance in the game. 

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I can't agree more. The fact that DA:I will have Romance is one of the  main reasons I am really excited about this game....roll on DA:I :dancing:  :dancing:

 

 

I look forward to your very detailed breakdown and review of every romance in the game. 

 

 

I am more than happy to provide you with my Romance antics when DA:I is released but I'm sure you will be busy indulging in your own Romance escapades once the game is released?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I am more than happy to provide you with my Romance antics when DA:I is released but I'm sure you will be busy indulging in your own Romance escapades once the game is released?

 

 

I am unlikely to own this game unless EA decides to put it on Steam or Gog unfortunately.

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I am more than happy to provide you with my Romance antics when DA:I is released but I'm sure you will be busy indulging in your own Romance escapades once the game is released?

 

 

I am unlikely to own this game unless EA decides to put it on Steam or Gog unfortunately.

 

 

Really? You dislike the Origin download system that much?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Really? You dislike the Origin download system that much?

 

 

EA made me angry when my computer crashed and they refused to let me re-download the digital orders I had made.  Gog and Steam are always there and I have pretty much gotten used to playing all my games with them.  I might come around someday but frankly the constant mistrust and hostility vibe I always got from EA wore on me.  I don't have much time for gaming much anymore anyway, it is not like I need to play their games.

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After Dragon Age 2's limited modability and somewhat annoying gameplay (multiple character's being required for combos and bosses effectively immune to one or more of your character's attacks on nightmare, small class system) I'm probably going to avoid Inquisition unless they announce the release of an editor or a hear a lot of good word of mouth.

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Yeah, unless all my friends tells me that DA:I is the best game ever, I'm going to avoid it with a vengeance.

 

After the terrible mess that was DA 2 and ME 3, with abysmal plotholes and writing so stupid that it insults my intelligence, combined with "romance" that seems to be taken right out of Twilight or a similar emo-teenage show, I can't see myself throwing money after another Bioware RPG, period.

 

EA has utterly ruined Bioware.

Edited by TMZuk
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I don't know what's with all the hate.  I will be happy to play Dragon Age: Inquisition and I am willing to bet it turns out to be a fun game.  I also really liked Mass Effect (so sue me).  I am known among friends for bitching at people for deriding a movie too hard by saying "Every movie doesn't have to be the Shawshank Redemption or Schindler's List".  Well every RPG doesn't have to be BG2.

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"I don't know what's with all the hate."

 

It\s the internet.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I'm really hoping that Bioware can redeem themselves after DA2 but I don't know, their release campaign is giving me DA2 vibes again. I'm definately not pre-ordering or making a day 1 purchase. I'm going to wait and see after the initial reviews and gloss has worn off and will base my purchase on what gamers are saying about it then.

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DAI has promise, from what I've seen, I'm interested in it even though the past BioWare games for the past five years have ranged from mediocre to really bad.

If it's good, I'll be happy, because there'd be at least a hope that the old BioWare is still there (though, in retrospect, you could see how they've gotten where they are now with some of the stuff in their older games.)

 

And the Mass Effect trilogy got worse and worse to the point where I don't even like ME1 anymore.

Like; in the ME2 marketing they liked to compare it to the Original Trilogy for Star Wars.

But really it was more like the prequel trilogy, with ME1 being Sith; a good game that is a little lack luster but still quality, ME2 being the Phantom Menace; a stupid as hell, utterly pointless to the main plot game, but enjoyable if you turn your brain off, and with ME3 being Attack of the Clones; bad and insultingly stupid (and I'm not talking about the ending, that entire game was AotC level stupid all the way through).

Edited by drake heath
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"And the Mass Effect trilogy got worse and worse to the point where I don't even like ME1 anymore."

 

That doesn't even make sense.

 

That's like me saying I hate FO1 and FO2 now when I used to like them because I loathe FO3.

 

Illogic, thy home is the internet.

 

Or people hating on Super Mario Brothers 1 because they didn't like Super Brothers 2.

 

Does. not. compute.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"And the Mass Effect trilogy got worse and worse to the point where I don't even like ME1 anymore."

 

That doesn't even make sense.

 

That's like me saying I hate FO1 and FO2 now when I used to like them because I loathe FO3.

 

Illogic, thy home is the internet.

 

Or people hating on Super Mario Brothers 1 because they didn't like Super Brothers 2.

 

Does. not. compute.

Ur comparing a game thats chapter 1 and not a full story with games that are stands alone themselves.

Fo1 (vault dweller), FO2 (chosen one), super mario 1&2 all tell a story and finishes that story in the same game. FO3 isnt a part 2 of the vault dweller and his adventures, but a stand alone adventure of the lone wanderer.

mass effect 1 is not a stand alone game and is basically part 1 (incomplete story and continues thru 2 and finishes with 3...maybe until the gravey train hits again) and to finish shepherds story u have to slog thru game 2 and 3.

 

Hope that clears it up. They are saying they cant stand part 1 anymore because they know its an incomplete story and to finish it they have to go thru ME 2&3 which they cant/dont wanna do anymore.

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Still doesn't make sense. ME1 is still a complete game. The story ends.  Your experience with playuing it hasn't changed. If you enjoyed it you enjoyed. One's perception of ME3 shouldn't change that (personally ME) is one of very few BIO games I could not finish).

 

\I'll take another approach.  On tv, people tend to bash entire series because the last season sucked. It does not compute as if you enjoyed the earlier seasons those are still there to be enjoyed.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Hey, Volourn. I fixed your quote problem. Look: :)

 

And the Mass Effect trilogy got worse and worse to the point where I don't even like ME1 anymore.

 That doesn't even make sense.

 

That's like me saying I hate FO1 and FO2 now when I used to like them because I loathe FO3.

 

Illogic, thy home is the internet.

 

No, I get exactly what he's saying. It's not illogical at all. It's psychological. A bad game in a series can taint the memory of the entire series in a player's mind. I've had the same thing happen to me with Dragon Age.

 

I played Origins and absolutely loved it. Then I bought DA2 and played it. It was so painfully bad that it soured me on everything associated with the Dragon age world. Consequently whenever I try to go back and replay DA:O, I find myself unable to get past Ostagar before sheer disgust kicks in. The Lore, the gameplay, the companions...the world itself conjures memories of DA2 -which for me were really bad.

 

I imagine this phenomenon is only magnified for a series like Mass effect, which is far more episodic than Dragon Age.

Edited by Stun

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