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Gameplay video: Detailed Response

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It would be an enormous amount of work to up-res all of the character models for a marginal gain in image quality on two screens in the game.  At the beginning of the project, I did say that we were going to be keeping the view of the characters relatively limited on these screens because it would be prohibitively expensive to model and texture them all at a high level of detail.  We have six races and two sexes that can equip dozens of different suits of armor/clothing with dozens of different weapons and shields.  The only way we could author all of these models with our budget was to limit the mesh density and texture size.  Sorry.

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It would be an enormous amount of work to up-res all of the character models for a marginal gain in image quality on two screens in the game.  At the beginning of the project, I did say that we were going to be keeping the view of the characters relatively limited on these screens because it would be prohibitively expensive to model and texture them all at a high level of detail.  We have six races and two sexes that can equip dozens of different suits of armor/clothing with dozens of different weapons and shields.  The only way we could author all of these models with our budget was to limit the mesh density and texture size.  Sorry.

 

As the great Rob Nesler put it,

"This is not a AAA game, so, don't get all, ...waaa?"

 

Got it. Maybe with the millions you make on this one, you can do it on the next one.

 

Creativity from problem solvers in the company might be able to come up with better solutions.

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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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It would be an enormous amount of work to up-res all of the character models for a marginal gain in image quality on two screens in the game.  At the beginning of the project, I did say that we were going to be keeping the view of the characters relatively limited on these screens because it would be prohibitively expensive to model and texture them all at a high level of detail.  We have six races and two sexes that can equip dozens of different suits of armor/clothing with dozens of different weapons and shields.  The only way we could author all of these models with our budget was to limit the mesh density and texture size.  Sorry.

 

I can tell you Wasteland 2's "beta" started with low res character models and players complained. I have no idea how many man hours it takes but don't expect your players to overlook it.

 

Your game looks beautiful. This will stand out like a sore.

Edited by talharbash

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It would be an enormous amount of work to up-res all of the character models for a marginal gain in image quality on two screens in the game.  At the beginning of the project, I did say that we were going to be keeping the view of the characters relatively limited on these screens because it would be prohibitively expensive to model and texture them all at a high level of detail.  We have six races and two sexes that can equip dozens of different suits of armor/clothing with dozens of different weapons and shields.  The only way we could author all of these models with our budget was to limit the mesh density and texture size.  Sorry.

 

Totally understandable, thanks for the straight talk.

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I find this odd.

 

Switching weapons mid combat is a tactical decision and it should, in my opinion, come with some sort of a cost.

 

Wasn't there a recovery time for wizards switching grimoire's by the way?

 

Yes, sort of.  Wizards do not have a recovery time/penalty, but their spells are locked out for a while after they switch.  Tim is going to add a recovery time (2 seconds to start with) when any character switches weapons (PC or AI).

 

That seems fair.

 

From a game play theory standpoint I have mixed feelings on the subject. It's logical that someone who's wielding, say, a Bow, would need some time to strap it over his shoulder and then unsheathe his dual axes. But, from a gameplay preference standpoint, Temple of Elemental evil, since it was using D&D 3.5 rules, implemented such weapon switching mechanics and I didn't find them very fun. Of course, switching weapons during combat took up an entire action in that game(unless you had the Quick Draw feat), so I think 2 seconds is a reasonable compromise.

Edited by Stun

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I can tell you Wasteland 2's "beta" started with low res character models and players complained. I have no idea how many man hours it takes but don't expect your players to overlook it.

 

Your game looks beautiful. This will stand out like a sore.

Wasteland 2's models were WAYYYYYYYY more primitive than what we're seeing in here. Just for the record.

 

Honestly, these are pretty freakin' gorgeous for a game that isn't close-up 3rd-person or 1st person, and doesn't really happen in a "3D" world (I know it's 3D, but things are largely 2D that are appearing within it). I don't think graphical fidelity for the sake of graphical fidelity really gets us anywhere.

 

 

As for weapon-switching, if there's going to be an "action time" for the weapon-switch (which there should be), then it could be kind of interesting if there was a "drop" option to simply drop your current weapon in order to more quickly draw your other weapon (basically instantaneous weapon-swapping), at the cost of losing the dropped weapon until you pick it up once more.

Edited by Lephys
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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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given a choice between putting more resources into the models and animation and putting more resources into literally any other part of the game, imma take the "more game" option

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Yes, sort of.  Wizards do not have a recovery time/penalty, but their spells are locked out for a while after they switch.  Tim is going to add a recovery time (2 seconds to start with) when any character switches weapons (PC or AI).

 

Is there any feats or talents that allow you to swap weapons without penalty? In 4th ed, you had the Master at Arms Feat which allowed you to do this.

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There is an immense amount of character content spread across many races, proportions, sexes, and creatures, and all of it has to play together nicely. Some of it is being polished for the Beta, but it is an ongoing process and you can expect it to improve throughout the beta and until the game ships. Your feedback is certainly appreciated !   :fdevil:

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One of the feedbacks that I keep hearing is that the combat was way too easy. The response i hear sometimes is "it's just early-game. Early game always sucks." Or some sort of variation on that. One of the proposals i had for the beta was that it should include parties in the low-level, mid-level, and high-level gameplay as well as combat challenges respective to that (early, mid, and late game) just so players can give feedback on combat difficulty and how the game "feels" during those portions. Yes, players might get to play with all the abilities early, but you can't just tweak early-game.

I can remember how I beat the bear outside candlekeep in BG1. That's bloody hard, but really enjoyable! 


Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, She got the Mercedes Benz

She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends

How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.

Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

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My eariler post didn't post :ninja:

 

I actually think the 3D models (at CC) are great.  They look good to me and do the job nicely.

I think it's better to use the ones that are going to be in-game.  I don't see the benefit of making separate models/higher-res textures for this.


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I have to say, I really like the look of the death godlike shown in the videos. I prefer the more striking "mutations" of PoE's godlikes to the more banal bright eyes vs. red eyes mutations of D&D's "godlikes." 

 

Wasn't there supposed to be a "bird" godlike? IIRC one of the companions was supposed to be this variant. I didn't see it in the godlike list in the video. Was it cut? 

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It would be an enormous amount of work to up-res all of the character models for a marginal gain in image quality on two screens in the game.  At the beginning of the project, I did say that we were going to be keeping the view of the characters relatively limited on these screens because it would be prohibitively expensive to model and texture them all at a high level of detail.  We have six races and two sexes that can equip dozens of different suits of armor/clothing with dozens of different weapons and shields.  The only way we could author all of these models with our budget was to limit the mesh density and texture size.  Sorry.

 

I also find the low-res model jarring because everything else looks so wonderful. I would've preferred a drawn paperdoll with worn items represented as boxes containing the inventory icons.

 

This, however, is an extremely low priority for me.

Edited by PrimeJunta
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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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It would be an enormous amount of work to up-res all of the character models for a marginal gain in image quality on two screens in the game.  At the beginning of the project, I did say that we were going to be keeping the view of the characters relatively limited on these screens because it would be prohibitively expensive to model and texture them all at a high level of detail.  We have six races and two sexes that can equip dozens of different suits of armor/clothing with dozens of different weapons and shields.  The only way we could author all of these models with our budget was to limit the mesh density and texture size.  Sorry.

Yes,wholeheartly understand.

My friend who order the basic edition of PoE share his opinion to me after watching the video:"The model action EVEN worse than NWN1!" EVEN! I wish I can kick his ass. Obviously he have no idea about the budget of NWN1.

The character model is enough for me.The problem is,how to reflect the advantage of IE style engine on combat field.In DA:I,they will cost a big amount bucks to design the chain attack(showed on E3 video),but in a IE game,such design will be much easier. Could the characters in PoE have more this kind of ability?


Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, She got the Mercedes Benz

She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends

How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.

Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

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I have to say, I really like the look of the death godlike shown in the videos. I prefer the more striking "mutations" of PoE's godlikes to the more banal bright eyes vs. red eyes mutations of D&D's "godlikes." 

 

Wasn't there supposed to be a "bird" godlike? IIRC one of the companions was supposed to be this variant. I didn't see it in the godlike list in the video. Was it cut? 

am suspecting we played a different d&d than did you. the following is gensai that josh mentioned.

 

MonFaePG72.jpg

 

the original aasimar and tiefling were more subtle, but by 4th edition, the default tiefling were looking a bit like dragon age qunari

 

Tiefling_One.jpg

 

heck, even 2nd edition tieflings were tending towards exotic

 

tiefling1.jpg

 

so, am gonna need call foul on your claim.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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By the way, I wonder that if the character have a very low DEX, will the throwed spear missing, or hurt Heodan? :w00t:


Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, She got the Mercedes Benz

She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends

How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.

Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

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The relatively low-res 3D character models for today's standard at closer look seem to be a common criticism to Wasteland 2. Personally, I'm not a great fan of old 3D models and, indeed, the character models in these games remind me of them if you ask me. However, what the players are going to see is the 2D sceneries and these character models from a distance-from the perspective for the main game play, personally, I think they look great. Also, in my personal case, my brains seem to regard them as something equivalent to miniatures in table top games and see them just as interfaces for tactical gameplay rather than something can be called "avatars." Naturally, in terms of appearance, my main inspiration for imaging characters relies on the portraits (So, no invisible mustache, please). In any case, that's what I used to see in IE games, where the animated 2D models whose faces were impossible to identify and I think the low-res models shouldn't be much of a problem for most people who played these games in PoE, either.

 

That said, indeed, even for single player first person games like the Elder Scroll series (Can be switched to over-the-shoulder third person view, though), character appearance mods seem to be quite popular although the players won't see their characters in most of their playtime. So, I guess the recent and/or video gamers might take them more seriously as their "avatars."

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I have to say, I really like the look of the death godlike shown in the videos. I prefer the more striking "mutations" of PoE's godlikes to the more banal bright eyes vs. red eyes mutations of D&D's "godlikes." 

 

Wasn't there supposed to be a "bird" godlike? IIRC one of the companions was supposed to be this variant. I didn't see it in the godlike list in the video. Was it cut? 

am suspecting we played a different d&d than did you. the following is gensai that josh mentioned.

 

MonFaePG72.jpg

 

the original aasimar and tiefling were more subtle, but by 4th edition, the default tiefling were looking a bit like dragon age qunari

 

Tiefling_One.jpg

 

heck, even 2nd edition tieflings were tending towards exotic

 

tiefling1.jpg

 

so, am gonna need call foul on your claim.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Touche. That is fair. I guess the planetouched were more "out there" than I remember them being.

Edited by Lasweetlife

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  • Lephys: I love your eerily blue sig. So funny!! :lol:  :lol: :lol:  

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I would just like to say thank you to Josh, Dimitri, and all members of the dev team who take their time to read our feedback and answer our queries. Thanks! :)

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Sorry if I'm too easily pleased but I love all of it.

 

I think it looks absolutely bitchin'

 

No complaints about visuals... let's see how the whole stamina thing looks. I loved the idea of the barbarian using a reach weapon from behind human cover. Tactix.

Edited by Monte Carlo
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sonsofgygax.JPG

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Probably a find fuelled by wishful thinking, but on that wooden board where the classes are lined up, I just noticed that there are room for seven more classes on that, so perhaps the expansion will give us seven new sweet classes! :w00t:  *Derpy reasoning, hide under a blanket, dreaming again*

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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After having watched PE in higher res in that PCGamer-vid, I see now that it is only the lighter wood panels that are the problem. The dialogue wooden UI (for instance seen at the caravan master's place) has perfect contrast and nice grimy wood. It's the lighter ones when shopping items (on the item plates themselves) and some lighter ones in the inventory that makes the text harder to read.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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