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That is why I do not like the Bioware system since it is such a grind instead of a steady progression. It always should evolve around the story and not just a feature. And since it is an RPG you have chances to influence this romance by your actions. 

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The legend of Zelda has no romance between Link or Zelda. It is a purely platonic relationship.

Ahhh, just like Mario and Peach. I see. :)

 

I guess Link just gapes at her all the time for absolutely no reason.

 

Link's a patriot, he doesn't need sex, he needs Hyrule.

Edited by drake heath
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That is why I do not like the Bioware system since it is such a grind instead of a steady progression. It always should evolve around the story and not just a feature. And since it is an RPG you have chances to influence this romance by your actions. 

Is that what you meant by involve the romance with the story? I seem to have mistaken your position. The idea of a romance being affected by plot decisions is a great idea! I thought you meant to make the romance integrate into the story. My bad.

 

I still think Obsidian shouldn't make romances, but I might just steal your idea when I attempt to make a poe romance.

Edited by Namutree

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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The legend of Zelda has no romance between Link or Zelda. It is a purely platonic relationship.

Ahhh, just like Mario and Peach. I see. :)

 

I guess Link just gapes at her all the time for absolutely no reason.

 

Link's a patriot, he doesn't need sex, he needs Hyrule.

 

Except when he leaves Hyrule. Link doesn't need anything, or anyone.

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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Just FYI (I really didn't know this, and was curious, so this isn't an "IN YOUR FACE!" or anything):

 

"Another incarnation appears in the sequel, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link. This Zelda has been put into an eternal slumber until Link breaks the curse. According to the in-game legend, the elder Zelda has been under a curse so long that it is in her honour that the Hylian royal family maintains a tradition of naming all its princesses after her. This is the first game showing a relationship between the two, as they can be seen kissing at the end of the game."

 

(From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Zelda)

 

I never did beat that game. I got to the final temple, then my cousin forgot to hold RESET when powering off the NES, so it wiped my save data (it was one of THOSE games). I never bothered to replay through the game, heh.

 

But, yeah, I honestly didn't know off the top of my head if any of the games ever actually portrayed the idea that Link and Zelda were romantically involved. I just always got the feeling they were supposed to pretty much be soulmates, seeing as how they're always quite entwined in destiny and all that jazz. *shrug*


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Except when he leaves Hyrule. Link doesn't need anything, or anyone.

Except a tunic. And a cap, I suppose. Maybe a rupee or two. :)

 

(Dangit... I hate it when I mean to edit a reply into my super-recent post, then accidentally just post it as a separate one.)

Edited by Lephys

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Just FYI (I really didn't know this, and was curious, so this isn't an "IN YOUR FACE!" or anything):

 

"Another incarnation appears in the sequel, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link. This Zelda has been put into an eternal slumber until Link breaks the curse. According to the in-game legend, the elder Zelda has been under a curse so long that it is in her honour that the Hylian royal family maintains a tradition of naming all its princesses after her. This is the first game showing a relationship between the two, as they can be seen kissing at the end of the game."

 

(From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Zelda)

 

I never did beat that game. I got to the final temple, then my cousin forgot to hold RESET when powering off the NES, so it wiped my save data (it was one of THOSE games). I never bothered to replay through the game, heh.

 

But, yeah, I honestly didn't know off the top of my head if any of the games ever actually portrayed the idea that Link and Zelda were romantically involved. I just always got the feeling they were supposed to pretty much be soulmates, seeing as how they're always quite entwined in destiny and all that jazz. *shrug*

I didn't know that Link and Zelda kissed in that game. That's actually somehow bad to me. Why do they get together in the worst Zelda game that isn't the unholy triforce.


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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I didn't know that Link and Zelda kissed in that game. That's actually somehow bad to me. Why do they get together in the worst Zelda game that isn't the unholy triforce.

That really is kind of weird, and that was the worst game, heh. I mean, it was fun in its time, but it felt the least "Legend of Zelda." *shrug*

 

Who knows. But, yeah, if they are supposed to be "in love" or whatever (I just mean, if that's actually the intent by the creator of the characters and such, 'cause I really have no idea), I still prefer that, in the context of those games, they don't even kiss and whatnot.

 

That's the kind of romance I'd like to see a lot more in place of Bioware's typical stuff, for example. Literally just the human aspect of romance. Not "here's a whole string of content dedicated solely to relationship-building in a vaccuum with any given character."

 

As Darji said, it should really revolve around the plot, and not around how many times you click the "give gifts" button and say pleasant things. The story/events should affect character's feelings, and character's feelings should affect the story.

 

I mentioned before, what if your character likes someone with some kind of title or obligation, and they end up being more devoted to you than to their responsibility? That could affect entire faction decisions, etc. Look at A Song of Ice and Fire. Rob Stark chooses love over his obligation to the Freys, and look how that turns out.

 

Not that it has to turn out like that, I'm just saying... that was a pretty significant set of consequences from a simple romance.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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@ Namutree

 

I meant to ask you this earlier, I see you mentioned you are a Modder? I may have misunderstood you

 

Have you created Romance Mods before ?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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@ Namutree

 

I meant to ask you this earlier, I see you mentioned you are a Modder? I may have misunderstood you

 

Have you created Romance Mods before ?

I have never created a romance mod before, but I do have some experience modding. I have also read a lot of literature and do some writing as a hobby. Combining my mod abilities and my writing skills shouldn't be too challenging. That said; I'm not an expert on the unity engine. It could be a while before a mod made by me comes out for poe.

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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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@ Namutree

 

I meant to ask you this earlier, I see you mentioned you are a Modder? I may have misunderstood you

 

Have you created Romance Mods before ?

I have never created a romance mod before, but I do have some experience modding. I have also read a lot of literature and do some writing as a hobby. Combining my mod abilities and my writing skills shouldn't be too challenging. That said; I'm not an expert on the unity engine. It could be a while before a mod made by me comes out for poe.

 

 

That's very interesting, what games have you created Mods for?

 

The reason I ask is I don't really know any Modders personally who create Mods for games I play and I'm interested in how long a Mod takes and how much work is involved? I know this is a very broad question as it obviously depends on the type of Mod. But if you don't mind maybe you can share the logistics and timelines around a Mod you have been involved in?

 

I love using Mods and I have huge respect for people who are prepared to spend there personal time enhancing a game for the benefit of others.

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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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@ Namutree

 

I meant to ask you this earlier, I see you mentioned you are a Modder? I may have misunderstood you

 

Have you created Romance Mods before ?

I have never created a romance mod before, but I do have some experience modding. I have also read a lot of literature and do some writing as a hobby. Combining my mod abilities and my writing skills shouldn't be too challenging. That said; I'm not an expert on the unity engine. It could be a while before a mod made by me comes out for poe.

 

 

That's very interesting, what games have you created Mods for?

 

The reason I ask is I don't really know any Modders personally who create Mods for games I play and I'm interested in how long a Mod takes and how much work is involved? I know this is a very broad question as it obviously depends on the type of Mod. But if you don't mind maybe you can share the logistics and timelines around a Mod you have been involved in?

 

I love using Mods and I have huge respect for people who are prepared to spend there personal time enhancing a game for the benefit of others.

 

I'll tell you the whole story of my modding/game making history:

 

I have create Mods for a few games. At first I started with the incredibly simple, "HACKED Star Craft Editor"; I would make alterations to popular Battle.Net game modes. Often I'd add the title "Glorious" to new versions of the game types to signify it was my creation. I'm not sure if that would count as modding, but it helped me get started. 

 

After that I got a game making program called, "Game Maker", it was pretty simple, but helped me figure out how to make good content. (By good I mean fun; not graphically or technically impressive.) My first self-created games were maze games. Followed by side scrolling shooters, platformers, strategy, and finally adventure games. All this gave me a small amount of scripting skills.

 

After that I got Elder Scrolls 3:Morrowind. I made changes to the game using the game editor and changed the game to suit my tastes. It wasn't very hard thanks to Bethesda making the editor user friendly. I did learn a little about working with 3D though.

 

The next one will probably be unknown to everyone but me. I worked on the editor for Tzar: Burden of the Crown. This editor was super easy for making maps, but God help you for making decent events. I made a few campaigns for me and my friends to enjoy (They were coop campaigns) together. Working with Tzar editor will give you the patience to handle real modding. Tzar Editor still gives me nightmares...

 

Part 2 Still to come...

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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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My Mod history continued...

 

After the torture device known as the Tzar editor was behind me I moved to a bit of Rom Hacking:

 

It was a big hurdle for me and I really struggled with it. I had tutorials, but dang that stuff was a challenge to get into. I don't know how quickly other people pick up hacking roms for mods, but it took me a while. I have  150+ hours making my first functioning and completed romhack. I don't know if that's good or bad. I REALLY wanted to get it done right. Shadowrun for the sega genesis was my first romhack. I replaced a few useless weapons, and changed some of the dialog; along with some other changes.

 

After that I played BG for the first time and loved it. I did the super simple stuff like add in my own portraits, but never really messed with it.

 

Next came BG2; which is my favorite RPG ever. I was going to Mod it, and even did some research on how, but while getting the tools and gleaning information I realized that everything I wanted to do was already done. So I mostly acquired mods rather than make them. IE modding is not something I have ever really done, but as I said before I did do a little research to get an idea on how tough it was. Some of the knowledge on modding translates to other mediums; so I expect I'll be able to figure it out. If there's a will; there is a way!

 

To answer how much time and work is required to mod something; a lot usually. That said, games that come with editors are MUCH easier than games without them. Also, some people figure out how to do stuff much faster than others. I feel I am a bit slower than usual, but I make up for it with determination. If I do manage to mod poe; it will probably be the hardest modding I have ever done. Don't expect anything from me for at least a year.

 

Sadly, all my mods with the exception of my Starcraft mods are gone. They were on old computers and they broke. I posted my Starcraft stuff on Battle.Net; so it remains on the internet.

 

BTW, does RPG Maker count? I have experience with that too, but since the whole thing was meant to be worked on it isn't very impressive.

Edited by Namutree
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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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My Mod history continued...

 

After the torture device known as the Tzar editor was behind me I moved to a bit of Rom Hacking:

 

It was a big hurdle for me and I really struggled with it. I had tutorials, but dang that stuff was a challenge to get into. I don't know how quickly other people pick up hacking roms for mods, but it took me a while. I have  150+ hours making my first functioning and completed romhack. I don't know if that's good or bad. I REALLY wanted to get it done right. Shadowrun for the sega genesis was my first romhack. I replaced a few useless weapons, and changed some of the dialog; along with some other changes.

 

After that I played BG for the first time and loved it. I did the super simple stuff like add in my own portraits, but never really messed with it.

 

Next came BG2; which is my favorite RPG ever. I was going to Mod it, and even did some research on how, but while getting the tools and gleaning information I realized that everything I wanted to do was already done. So I mostly acquired mods rather than make them. IE modding is not something I have ever really done, but as I said before I did do a little research to get an idea on how tough it was. Some of the knowledge on modding translates to other mediums; so I expect I'll be able to figure it out. If there's a will; there is a way!

 

To answer how much time and work is required to mod something; a lot usually. That said, games that come with editors are MUCH easier than games without them. Also, some people figure out how to do stuff much faster than others. I feel I am a bit slower than usual, but I make up for it with determination. If I do manage to mod poe; it will probably be the hardest modding I have ever done. Don't expect anything from me for at least a year.

 

Sadly, all my mods with the exception of my Starcraft mods are gone. They were on old computers and they broke. I posted my Starcraft stuff on Battle.Net; so it remains on the internet.

 

BTW, does RPG Maker count? I have experience with that too, but since the whole thing was meant to be worked on it isn't very impressive.

 

Yes RPG maker does count, as far as I'm concerned any coding or modding experience matters when it comes to a persons personal exposure to this type of work

 

Thanks for sharing your Mod history, I would consider you someone who is definitely experienced and I look forward to your perspective when it comes to PoE and whether it is feasible to create Mods

 

Oh without a doubt BG2 is also my favourite RPG of all time, Throne of Bhaal was my most  entertaining RPG ever but I consider that part of BG2

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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Yes RPG maker does count, as far as I'm concerned any coding or modding experience matters when it comes to a persons personal exposure to this type of work

 

Thanks for sharing your Mod history, I would consider you someone who is definitely experienced and I look forward to your perspective when it comes to PoE and whether it is feasible to create Mods

 

Oh without a doubt BG2 is also my favourite RPG of all time, Throne of Bhaal was my most  entertaining RPG ever but I consider that part of BG2

 

Well Throne of Bhaal was the expansion so yeah; a part of BG2.


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Bruce, did you like the way romances were handled in Jade Empire, or did you not play it?


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Bruce, did you like the way romances were handled in Jade Empire, or did you not play it?

 

There are certain RPG I have never played before and Jade Empire is one of them. I want to play it and soon  because people talk about it fairly regularly. Do you recommend it?

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Bruce, did you like the way romances were handled in Jade Empire, or did you not play it?

 

There are certain RPG I have never played before and Jade Empire is one of them. I want to play it and soon  because people talk about it fairly regularly. Do you recommend it?

 

Absolutely! It can be a bit too easy, but if you play on grand master difficulty you at least need to try; unless Storm Dragon gets involved. The plot is great. The romances are good. The action is fun. The Chinese theme is cool. The enemies are interesting; except those dang Horse Demons! The games is awesome, but for some reason when you beat it; you need to wait at least two years before you play it again. 

 

Also, Furious Ming. He looks so furious in the closed fist ending.

Edited by Namutree
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"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Seconded. Jade Empire is IMO the best game BioWare has made. I think the secret is that it doesn't take itself too seriously and doesn't try to dial the epic to awesome all the time. It's the only BioWare game that doesn't read like bad fanfic and doesn't make me facepalm constantly.

 

As to the romances... let me put it this way: I don't think it's possible to do a BioWarian romance better than in Jade Empire. If you like that sort of thing, I'm pretty sure you'll love it. The action-RPG-lite gameplay is adequate for the job too, and the plot has a few neat twists. While those twists once spoiled stay spoiled, I did enjoy playing it through multiple times with different characters. The experience isn't drastically different, but there is enough variety in gameplay plus the open palm/closed fist thing to make it kinda worthwhile.

 

And, of course, Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard. I'm ready to let a quite a lot slide for just that.

 

Jade Empire makes me a little sad actually. If BioWare had stuck to pursuing that direction instead of going all grimdark endoftheuniverse darkspawn bloodspatter, they could've made a whole bunch of really cool games which I would've enjoyed too—and I think so would the fanbase who loves their current work. It's the only BioWare game since BG2 where it feels like everybody involved thoroughly enjoyed what they were doing. They're much better at light-hearted, partly comedic cinematic action than Mature Treatment Of Important Themes.

 

I'd say that you're only really likely to NOT like it if (a) you can't stand action RPG gameplay, or (b) you're expecting something epic, sprawling, and free-roaming. 'Cuz it's not; it has a hub-and-spoke structure but there's no backtracking and the sidequests aren't all that interesting (except Kang the Mad's, and you really have to work for it to get it—if you do play it, pay close attention to Kang the Mad or you will miss out).

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Bruce, did you like the way romances were handled in Jade Empire, or did you not play it?

 

There are certain RPG I have never played before and Jade Empire is one of them. I want to play it and soon  because people talk about it fairly regularly. Do you recommend it?

 

Absolutely! It can be a bit too easy, but if you play on grand master difficulty you at least need to try; unless Storm Dragon gets involved. The plot is great. The romances are good. The action is fun. The Chinese theme is cool. The enemies are interesting; except those dang Horse Demons! The games is awesome, but for some reason when you beat it; you need to wait at least two years before you play it again. 

 

The worst thing about this game is that it actually ends shortly after the big twist.  In an JRPG that would have been just the prologue.  I really liked this game but the ending destroyed it for me... The romance as far as I remember was pretty good though^^

Edited by Darji
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Seconded. Jade Empire is IMO the best game BioWare has made. I think the secret is that it doesn't take itself too seriously and doesn't try to dial the epic to awesome all the time. It's the only BioWare game that doesn't read like bad fanfic and doesn't make me facepalm constantly.

 

As to the romances... let me put it this way: I don't think it's possible to do a BioWarian romance better than in Jade Empire. If you like that sort of thing, I'm pretty sure you'll love it. The action-RPG-lite gameplay is adequate for the job too, and the plot has a few neat twists. While those twists once spoiled stay spoiled, I did enjoy playing it through multiple times with different characters. The experience isn't drastically different, but there is enough variety in gameplay plus the open palm/closed fist thing to make it kinda worthwhile.

 

And, of course, Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard. I'm ready to let a quite a lot slide for just that.

 

Jade Empire makes me a little sad actually. If BioWare had stuck to pursuing that direction instead of going all grimdark endoftheuniverse darkspawn bloodspatter, they could've made a whole bunch of really cool games which I would've enjoyed too—and I think so would the fanbase who loves their current work. It's the only BioWare game since BG2 where it feels like everybody involved thoroughly enjoyed what they were doing. They're much better at light-hearted, partly comedic cinematic action than Mature Treatment Of Important Themes.

 

I'd say that you're only really likely to NOT like it if (a) you can't stand action RPG gameplay, or (b) you're expecting something epic, sprawling, and free-roaming. 'Cuz it's not; it has a hub-and-spoke structure but there's no backtracking and the sidequests aren't all that interesting (except Kang the Mad's, and you really have to work for it to get it—if you do play it, pay close attention to Kang the Mad or you will miss out).

I friggin loved Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard! I wish asking him to join you could have been a reward for his quest, and then... ROMANCE! :)


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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I would say that Jade Empire is second worst RPG that Bioware has done, but as I think that all their RPGs are at least good, that isn't very heavy critique.

 

For it romances I would say that they are ok, but I wouldn't rank them best BioWarian romances, but they are still worth to experience.

 

Jade Empire's biggest short comings are in its RPG mechanics that are shallow at best even for action rpg, in such degree that ME2's and ME3's mechanics feel deep when you compare them to Jade Empire's mechanics. But Jade Empire's short comings are quite well compensated by its story (even though its quite predictable with its twists) and Chinese mythology inspired setting.   

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Haven't the devs already stated that romance won't be happening in PoE?

Yep. Although, sadly, they were very polite to the promancers when giving them the 'bad news'.

 

If I was a dev, the announcement would have been far more... colorful. Like this:

 

mkrx38I.jpg

 

LOL

 

(edit: saw this one in another romance thread here and just had to steal it)

 

This made my day. Thank you based Stun.

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if i were Josh, i wouldn't reveal all the nice details in some puny preview, so~

y'know

i wouldn't give up on positive expectations

just coz he said "no" to a random chick :dancing:

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Obviously, he's playing hard-to-get with the interviewer. :)


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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