Nepenthe Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The sum of NPCs in DAI so far have been... not promising. Ah well, I'll get a varric/cassandra/vivienne playthrough out of this, at the very least. Yeah I'm relatively impressed with some of the lady NPC that can join your party, they aren't an Isabela but there backgrounds and objectives look fun enough I'm playing through DA2 for the first time and Isabela... is kinda one note to me.... Everything is "Sex" or how important she is. And overall her 'long term' goal is kinda boring as well. Sure, she can be hilarious with Merill but other characters have more depth to them. Although they don't seem to have the depth that was put into the DA1 companion.Well, her plot arc basically is outgrowing the comic relief bimbo role. Hidden depths later on etc. I found the Rivalry/friendship mechanic to be very interesting and a masive improvement over the previous one, but there still were some inconsistencies that kind of forced you to metagame the **** out of it... You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There should be a poll added with who is buying this. No doubt 99% of people posting in this thread will be buying the game despite the complaints. Monte and myself, two confirmed non-purchasers of the game, standing by idly watching all this unfold. Actually, scrap the poll. We all know the vast majority of posters will play the game, regardless of what forum you're on and BioWare knows their games sell. I also note on RPG Codex, there's a lot of anticipation from quite a few posters over there to play this. And I'm being quite serious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There should be a poll added with who is buying this. No doubt 99% of people posting in this thread will be buying the game despite the complaints. Monte and myself, two confirmed non-purchasers of the game, standing by idly watching all this unfold. Actually, scrap the poll. We all know the vast majority of posters will play the game, regardless of what forum you're on and BioWare knows their games sell. I also note on RPG Codex, there's a lot of anticipation from quite a few posters over there to play this. And I'm being quite serious. I can add two more people to your poll who vowed never to buy another Bioware game again, one is Majek. And the other one I won't mention because I don't want to hold him to his vow if he relents and decides he wants to purchase another Bioware game People should be like me, I never say never. I use words similar to "unlikely" "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajerio Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There should be a poll added with who is buying this. No doubt 99% of people posting in this thread will be buying the game despite the complaints. Monte and myself, two confirmed non-purchasers of the game, standing by idly watching all this unfold. Actually, scrap the poll. We all know the vast majority of posters will play the game, regardless of what forum you're on and BioWare knows their games sell. I also note on RPG Codex, there's a lot of anticipation from quite a few posters over there to play this. And I'm being quite serious. I'll certainly be buying it. BioWare games have always given me my money's worth and then some. I think possibly this is because I try very hard to enjoy games on their own terms as the games themselves present them, instead of forcing them to stagger under the too vast orb of my own expectations or marketing hype. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There should be a poll added with who is buying this. No doubt 99% of people posting in this thread will be buying the game despite the complaints. Monte and myself, two confirmed non-purchasers of the game, standing by idly watching all this unfold. Actually, scrap the poll. We all know the vast majority of posters will play the game, regardless of what forum you're on and BioWare knows their games sell. I also note on RPG Codex, there's a lot of anticipation from quite a few posters over there to play this. And I'm being quite serious. I'll certainly be buying it. BioWare games have always given me my money's worth and then some. I think possibly this is because I try very hard to enjoy games on their own terms as the games themselves present them, instead of forcing them to stagger under the too vast orb of my own expectations or marketing hype. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There should be a poll added with who is buying this. No doubt 99% of people posting in this thread will be buying the game despite the complaints. Monte and myself, two confirmed non-purchasers of the game, standing by idly watching all this unfold. Actually, scrap the poll. We all know the vast majority of posters will play the game, regardless of what forum you're on and BioWare knows their games sell. I also note on RPG Codex, there's a lot of anticipation from quite a few posters over there to play this. And I'm being quite serious. I'll certainly be buying it. BioWare games have always given me my money's worth and then some. I think possibly this is because I try very hard to enjoy games on their own terms as the games themselves present them, instead of forcing them to stagger under the too vast orb of my own expectations or marketing hype. Well said, that summarizes why I am seldom, if ever, truly disappointed by any game. I look at games in there own context and also I ask a simple question " am I entertained by playing a certain game". If the answer is yes then the purchase was worth it. Of course if a game like BG3 is ever released then I would expect it to live up to its predecessors "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The sum of NPCs in DAI so far have been... not promising. Ah well, I'll get a varric/cassandra/vivienne playthrough out of this, at the very least. Yeah I'm relatively impressed with some of the lady NPC that can join your party, they aren't an Isabela but there backgrounds and objectives look fun enough I'm playing through DA2 for the first time and Isabela... is kinda one note to me.... Everything is "Sex" or how important she is. And overall her 'long term' goal is kinda boring as well. Sure, she can be hilarious with Merill but other characters have more depth to them. Although they don't seem to have the depth that was put into the DA1 companion. Her liberated and sexualised personality was one of the many things I liked about her, also those pirate boots...yes those pirate boots There's a difference between liberated and sexualized person.... and "Basically only talks of sex for the whole game" 1 Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'll certainly be buying it. BioWare games have always given me my money's worth and then some. I think possibly this is because I try very hard to enjoy games on their own terms as the games themselves present them, instead of forcing them to stagger under the too vast orb of my own expectations or marketing hype. I've never been disappointed in all the games I've purchased. Then again, I've also never been disappointed in any games I haven't purchases. eg. Dragon Age II. despite hearing quite a few people saying they were disappointed with it. But as you've said, they probably got caught up with their expectations or marketing hype. I think possibly this is because of my discerning nature with games and separating the wheat from the chaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The sum of NPCs in DAI so far have been... not promising. Ah well, I'll get a varric/cassandra/vivienne playthrough out of this, at the very least. Yeah I'm relatively impressed with some of the lady NPC that can join your party, they aren't an Isabela but there backgrounds and objectives look fun enough I'm playing through DA2 for the first time and Isabela... is kinda one note to me.... Everything is "Sex" or how important she is. And overall her 'long term' goal is kinda boring as well. Sure, she can be hilarious with Merill but other characters have more depth to them. Although they don't seem to have the depth that was put into the DA1 companion. Her liberated and sexualised personality was one of the many things I liked about her, also those pirate boots...yes those pirate boots There's a difference between liberated and sexualized person.... and "Basically only talks of sex for the whole game" But that's not true, she also spoke about her aspirations to get her own ship and return to the sea and she supported Merill . She also discussed what her objectives were. I am not nitpicking but there was more to Isabela to just sex talk 2 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 To me Bioware games are not quite worth their full price, but when the price drops I will be picking up the Inquisition. 1 This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Also, goes back to what I was saying about Obsidian should take some pointers from Bioware. Make a game similar to a Bioware game with similar storytelling including romances and you'll be on a winner. It's what the mass market wants. Bioware knows how to sell, even putting emo kid with the +10 Stealth Bomber hat in the game. And every now and then, do a Kickstarter for the hardcore rpg fans with the stories that Obsidian wants to tell and can't get a publisher for. A win for all and Obsidian stays in business making loads of $$$. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Never say never I guess, but the DA property is one that currently has negative currency with me. I was disappointed with the first game and felt it ultimately wasn't worth my money,in that I appreciate what it was trying to do but that effort alone is not enough. Past that, I'm comfortable with my decision to skip the second game altogether. As a consequence, the perception of DA3 from pre-release materials, launch feedback and actual witnessing of unedited gameplay would have to be clearly a net positive to drag the franchise back into the black in my books -- and at the moment it's running at a net negative as well based on the first of those elements. The second problem is that I haven't even taken ME3 into account there, a game that in my personal view was an unmitigated disaster. If I'm generous I could set that aside, writing it of as a result of the separate development teams. If I'm not, then, well.... L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGX-17 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Time for my quarterly check in. Do we still heatedly, nay, passionately discuss a game we all hate without having played it? Also, goes back to what I was saying about Obsidian should take some pointers from Bioware. Make a game similar to a Bioware game with similar storytelling including romances and you'll be on a winner. It's what the mass market wants. Bioware knows how to sell, even putting emo kid with the +10 Stealth Bomber hat in the game. And every now and then, do a Kickstarter for the hardcore rpg fans with the stories that Obsidian wants to tell and can't get a publisher for. A win for all and Obsidian stays in business making loads of $$$. 6/10, solid. Suffered for the emo kid bit, that's more JRPG. I guess Anders Fogh Rasmussen is severely emo, though. I could be referring to the DA character, I could be referring to the Secretary General of NATO. IT IS A MYSTERY But that's not true, she also spoke about her aspirations to get her own ship and return to the sea and she supported Merill . She also discussed what her objectives were. I am not nitpicking but there was more to Isabela to just sex talk But that's because both Isabella and Merill are idiots. Or maybe Isabella is a non-idiot (but not smart, either; I mean, just imagine the sorts of putrid ecosystems she's carrying around down there,) sadist who wants to encourage Merill's idiotic behavior in order to savor the terrible consequences. Edited June 25, 2014 by AGX-17 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 6/10, solid. Suffered for the emo kid bit, that's more JRPG. I guess Anders Fogh Rasmussen is severely emo, though. I could be referring to the DA character, I could be referring to the Secretary General of NATO. IT IS A MYSTERY Not sure what the score is for. You don't think Obsidian should go the Bioware route and do rpgs for the mass market like Bioware have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Also, goes back to what I was saying about Obsidian should take some pointers from Bioware. Make a game similar to a Bioware game with similar storytelling including romances and you'll be on a winner. It's what the mass market wants. Bioware knows how to sell, even putting emo kid with the +10 Stealth Bomber hat in the game. And every now and then, do a Kickstarter for the hardcore rpg fans with the stories that Obsidian wants to tell and can't get a publisher for. A win for all and Obsidian stays in business making loads of $$$. Remember those threads asking if SIS was romanceable? I do; I like this place, is the only forum I visit in large part thanks to the quality of the community. Even the trolls seem to have high class. I rather not risk a mass exodus from the BioBoards to here. 4 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Time for my quarterly check in. Do we still heatedly, nay, passionately discuss a game we all hate without having played it?IT IS A MYSTERY But that's not true, she also spoke about her aspirations to get her own ship and return to the sea and she supported Merill . She also discussed what her objectives were. I am not nitpicking but there was more to Isabela to just sex talk But that's because both Isabella and Merill are idiots. Or maybe Isabella is a non-idiot (but not smart, either; I mean, just imagine the sorts of putrid ecosystems she's carrying around down there,) sadist who wants to encourage Merill's idiotic behavior in order to savor the terrible consequences. I didn't actually see that much of it. At best there was a token attempt for her to get back to the sea but (at least in this play through I just finished) she basically was a bundle of sex jokes, followed by some protection of Merill and an attempt at the "lovable rogue" archtype that was sort of endearing but got a bit scratchy for my tastes. At least with Merill they were trying something different, a fish so far out of water that she couldn't see the beaches, but with all of the DA 2 characters their "one note" parts overshadowed everything else. I think the problem lies mainly in that your "interaction" with them is the party banter.... which means you get a string of jokes and one liners but doesn't give enough room for real characterization like the full on conversations you had in Camp in DA1 were. The DA setting seems like a place that Chris A. would be able to just absolutely go NUTS and create something really special. In my head I ended up drawing a lot of connections to NWN2, specifically the fact that even the characters were commenting on how Hawke couldn't walk across a room without tripping over a blood mage. Which is almost a direct parallel to the band of adventurers from NWN2 and how the entire party reacted the same way when they acted as the "quest npc's" for a young group (who got an apple for saving a cat in a tree). 2 Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 But that's not true, she also spoke about her aspirations to get her own ship and return to the sea and she supported Merill . She also discussed what her objectives were. I am not nitpicking but there was more to Isabela to just sex talk But that's because both Isabella and Merill are idiots. Or maybe Isabella is a non-idiot (but not smart, either; I mean, just imagine the sorts of putrid ecosystems she's carrying around down there,) sadist who wants to encourage Merill's idiotic behavior in order to savor the terrible consequences. Agx I want to ask you and Calax something and be honest with your comments. Why is it when we have your archetypical male character who espouses all "male" characteristics like being overly sexually confident we don't feel the need to raise or discuss this but when a women character does the same we consider this lascivious and worth commenting on? Double standards? Are women not allowed to say things like "I want to bed every man who can help me with objectives in life" without us being concerned about these comments I don't consider either of you guys sexist as I've read your comments on SJ and equality issues and I think of you guys as liberal. So my point is more of a general one In summary I think unnecessary attention is given to Isabela's comments because she is a women making them and a male character acting the same way wouldn't get the same criticism "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Are women not allowed to say things like "I want to bed every man who can help me with objectives in life" I would like to see women answer this question to get their view on this. Even better, ask this to women in real life Bruce and see what reaction and answers you get. Once you have this, you can tell us how you went from a women's perspective. I look forward to your report and results on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Are women not allowed to say things like "I want to bed every man who can help me with objectives in life" I would like to see women answer this question to get their view on this. Even better, ask this to women in real life Bruce and see what reaction and answers you get. Once you have this, you can tell us how you went from a women's perspective. I look forward to your report and results on this. We are talking about an RPG and how the sexes are portrayed and the dialogue lines they can use. This is not RL, I would think this would be obvious my friend "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 We are talking about an RPG and how the sexes are portrayed and the dialogue lines they can use. This is not RL, I would think this would be obvious my friend And considering nearly half the gaming community are women, wouldn't it be better to get a women's perspective on the issue on how women are portrayed and what they say in a Bioware game than asking a man? Wouldn't you agree that asking a woman is better? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 We are talking about an RPG and how the sexes are portrayed and the dialogue lines they can use. This is not RL, I would think this would be obvious my friend And considering nearly half the gaming community are women, wouldn't it be better to get a women's perspective on the issue on how women are portrayed and what they say in a Bioware game than asking a man? Wouldn't you agree that asking a woman is better? Okay, so you suggesting that women gamers may feel that the comments from Isabela might be inappropriate on some levels? In other words we need to get a women's perspective in the interests of true objectivity? The problem being you guys have chased away most female members from these forums so we are only left with active male members "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Okay, so you suggesting that women gamers may feel that the comments from Isabela might be inappropriate on some levels? In other words we need to get a women's perspective in the interests of true objectivity? The problem being you guys have chased away most female members from these forums so we are only left with active male members I'm not suggesting anything about women gamers. Where have I said anything about what female gamers might feel? Can you point that out please? And I'm not asking about true objectivity? Where did that come from? Also, I don't know what the difference between objectivity and true objectivity and does it even exist? All I've said is perhaps it's better to ask women about how women are portrayed instead of asking men on how women are portrayed. And you still haven't answered my questions, so I'll ask again: 1. Wouldn't it be better to get a women's perspective on the issue on how women are portrayed and what they say in a Bioware game than asking a man? 2. Wouldn't you agree that asking a woman is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Okay, so you suggesting that women gamers may feel that the comments from Isabela might be inappropriate on some levels? In other words we need to get a women's perspective in the interests of true objectivity? The problem being you guys have chased away most female members from these forums so we are only left with active male members I'm not suggesting anything about women gamers. Where have I said anything about what female gamers might feel? Can you point that out please? And I'm not asking about true objectivity? Where did that come from? Also, I don't know what the difference between objectivity and true objectivity and does it even exist? All I've said is perhaps it's better to ask women about how women are portrayed instead of asking men on how women are portrayed. And you still haven't answered my questions, so I'll ask again: 1. Wouldn't it be better to get a women's perspective on the issue on how women are portrayed and what they say in a Bioware game than asking a man? 2. Wouldn't you agree that asking a woman is better? You are being pedantic now with what I am trying to explain, yes I agree women should be asked But obviously if you are going to ask women what they think about how women are being portrayed in Bioware games we have to assume they are female gamers. And you seem to not like the word objectivity, what is a better word? Why do you feel the need to ask women gamers, I agree with you but why the issue with objectivity..would the word "informed" female opinion be better"? So in summary, if you are saying you want women to comment on Bioware games they would have to be female gamers who have played the game. Not sure why you are concerned with the words "female gamers" "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 You are being pedantic now with what I am trying to explain, yes I agree women should be asked But obviously if you are going to ask women what they think about how women are being portrayed in Bioware games we have to assume they are female gamers. And you seem to not like the word objectivity, what is a better word? Why do you feel the need to ask women gamers, I agree with you but why the issue with objectivity..would the word "informed" female opinion be better"? So in summary, if you are saying you want women to comment on Bioware games they would have to be female gamers who have played the game. Not sure why you are concerned with the words "female gamers" I think it's you who's being pedantic. I asked two simple questions and you've overreacted to those questions. Seriously, look at your posts. Your first post didn't even answer my questions and went on a wild tangent. And you're still going on wild tangents. And I'm not saying anything about what I want. This is not about me, but you. I'm asking you two questions. But nice try with the dodging and weaving and trying to put this back onto me. So in summary: Try and answer the questions. m'kay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 You are being pedantic now with what I am trying to explain, yes I agree women should be asked But obviously if you are going to ask women what they think about how women are being portrayed in Bioware games we have to assume they are female gamers. And you seem to not like the word objectivity, what is a better word? Why do you feel the need to ask women gamers, I agree with you but why the issue with objectivity..would the word "informed" female opinion be better"? So in summary, if you are saying you want women to comment on Bioware games they would have to be female gamers who have played the game. Not sure why you are concerned with the words "female gamers" I think it's you who's being pedantic. I asked two simple questions and you've overreacted to those questions. Seriously, look at your posts. Your first post didn't even answer my questions and went on a wild tangent. And you're still going on wild tangents. And I'm not saying anything about what I want. This is not about me, but you. I'm asking you two questions. But nice try with the dodging and weaving and trying to put this back onto me. So in summary: Try and answer the questions. m'kay. Okay I apologize, yes female gamers need to be asked and incorporating the female opinion into this discussion is better than just the male opinion. But the male opinion is still relevant "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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