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How do you think it would impact people to know, with dead certainty, they will reincarnate?


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To know it and know it with the same certainty a modern person knows of the existence of gravity. Plenty of people believe in reincarnation in the real world, but it's just that: a belief, subject to the same doubts and skepticism as any other religious belief. For the people of the world of PoE, it appears to be proven fact.

 

For starters, I have to imagine it would change people's perception of death a great deal. A lot of the dread would be removed if you knew you would be coming back before long anyway. 

Edited by Death Machine Miyagi
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It's an interesting question but from what i've read it's still as full of doubt and uncertainty as ours, and far more than the AD&D model of actual certainty. Is the next life influenced by ones actions in this one? Does following one deity matter and is there a correct philosophy? What if ones soul shatters because of a traumatic death? What if some Animancer experiments with ones corpse? What if you don't reincarnate and people are lying? What if there is punishment inbetween lives?

 

To me uncertainty is the most interesting position to be in, the afterlife seems to remain as much an unknown as the existence of a soul is a certainty.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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I think what's more critical than "does my soul come back" is "does my soul come back with my memories?"  My feeling is that it wouldn't be very comforting to most people if their souls were reincarnated without the memory of the past life, because we identify our memories so closely with our selves.  And I haven't seen any indication in PoE that memories carry over.

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Yeah, with our current uncertainty (well, I mean, without getting into religious beliefs and such... just what we actually KNOW in reality, and not what anyone has faith in or believes -- I'm not judging), we don't get to "rest assured" we will definitely re-cycle into a new form at some point after death. However, at the same time, we don't have to worry about that span of existence as well as our current one. We try to live right (or live however we decide to live with what we've got), and we get to figure ourselves out pretty well.

 

I can't imagine having no clue what form you'd take when you "came back."

 

"Will I be a crazed cannibal person? Will I be a poisonous plant creature? Will I be born with 73 diseases, but somehow survive for an entire lifetime?" etc.

 

Not to mention all the reasoning that will surface for such things as being reborn with a shattered soul, or simply having any undesirable trait whatsoever. "You have red hair because YOU WERE EVIL IN YOUR PAST LIFE, AND YOU'VE BEEN MARKED! BURN RED-HAIRED PEOPLE!"

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I wouldn't be too concerned about the memories bit, personally. I think I'd be much happier knowing I and everyone else were to be reincarnated. I mean, it's not exactly perfectly ideal, but it'd surely be a grand step up from what we currently have.

Edited by Bartimaeus
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Upon death, it is speculated that deities will claim the souls of those that please them and reincarnate them into the body of someone who will lead a good life.

 

My cursed godlike dark paladin is angered by this, and will refute the first and last entreaty by any simpleton deity.

 

 

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All Stop. On Screen.

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I was actually listening to an India(n) on the radio the other day speaking of Hinduism.  He argued that the belief of reincarnation and infinite lives leads to a people being more passive and accepting of their fate.  That contrasts with Christians who believe they only have a single life to live, and are more driven to make their mark on the world.    

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if there was reincarnation, i would like to keep my memories and sense of self between lives... no matter how bad something in this life was, it would be better to remember it and the lessons it taught me than just have to relearn it again the hard way.

besides if i dont remember, think how may games i would have to play all over again :brows:

The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

-Teknoman2-

What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born!


We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

Modern democracy is: the sheep voting for which dog will be the shepherd's right hand.

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To know it and know it with the same certainty a modern person knows of the existence of gravity. Plenty of people believe in reincarnation in the real world, but it's just that: a belief, subject to the same doubts and skepticism as any other religious belief. For the people of the world of PoE, it appears to be proven fact.

 

For starters, I have to imagine it would change people's perception of death a great deal. A lot of the dread would be removed if you knew you would be coming back before long anyway. 

Everybody would become passive push-overs.

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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It's an interesting question but from what i've read it's still as full of doubt and uncertainty as ours, and far more than the AD&D model of actual certainty. Is the next life influenced by ones actions in this one? Does following one deity matter and is there a correct philosophy? What if ones soul shatters because of a traumatic death? What if some Animancer experiments with ones corpse? What if you don't reincarnate and people are lying? What if there is punishment inbetween lives?

 

To me uncertainty is the most interesting position to be in, the afterlife seems to remain as much an unknown as the existence of a soul is a certainty.

 

There's doubt and uncertainty, but of a different variety from our own. There are an abundance of religious beliefs in our world that address the afterlife, promising everything from everlasting bliss for true believers to reincarnation into some higher form or whatever else, but all of those are striking at the same fundamental fear: the cessation of existence. A whole lot of people really don't like the idea of ceasing to exist. They want to believe they will continue to exist in some form or other.

 

The people of PoE don't seem to have that as something to fear. They may not understand the rules surrounding it, whether their actions actually impact anything or not in regards to the way they return, but the existence of souls which continually return to the world seems to be accepted as incontestable fact. Without that conscious or unconscious fear of oblivion, I would imagine attitudes towards death and religious teachings regarding it would differ drastically from our own. 

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For starters, I have to imagine it would change people's perception of death a great deal. A lot of the dread would be removed if you knew you would be coming back before long anyway. 

Everybody would become passive push-overs.

 

 

I'd think it'd be the opposite.

With a lot of fear of death removed, it'd be easier to stand up against oppression.

 

Of course, it depends on the other factors. Does the world value submission or bravery?

Will you get a better next life if you're a conquering hero in this? Does XP help you along towards "the goal".

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I think it would not change anything or even make death more fearful. Without the comfort of an afterlife and with the certainty of disappearance of self it would become even more imperative for people to leave a mark on the world. That or you'd have a bunch of nameless ones running around :) .

Edited by Sabotin
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If reincarnation was certain then people would commit mass suicides to eventually be born in a wealthy family and good life...wouldn't you?

 

If it was all random, then certainly. Crappy life -> try again.

 

But if there's a moral code by which things work, like suicide = sin -> you're downgraded in next life,

patient sufferin = valued -> upgraded in next life, things would work out all different.

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I think that people of the Eternity world should not be totally aware about what's going on after death. Be scared, be suspicious. Also, does the reincarnation cycle is the same for all the races?

It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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Although, the effect of knowledge shouldn't be overestimated.

 

Like, in this world, people know with dead certainty that eating too much makes you fat,

and regular exercise leads to a healthier life. yet people overeat and neglect their health.

 

It's human to get immediate pleasure now and plan to live a better life later.

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I would argue it's analogous with The Trouble with Lichen, when humanity faces becoming much longer lived.

 

One would hope it would induce a far greater sense of responsibility, and willingness to engage with complex problems. I suspect it would do the opposite.

 

Although I would point out that reincarnation cannot solve the death of one's entire species. This might at last attract the attention it merits.

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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If reincarnation was certain then people would commit mass suicides to eventually be born in a wealthy family and good life...wouldn't you?

 

If it was all random, then certainly. Crappy life -> try again.

 

But if there's a moral code by which things work, like suicide = sin -> you're downgraded in next life,

patient sufferin = valued -> upgraded in next life, things would work out all different.

 

Perhaps the old, wretched cripple begging for alms to avoid starvation is secretly overjoyed because next life = wealthy, rockstar equivalent.

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It's an interesting question but from what i've read it's still as full of doubt and uncertainty as ours, and far more than the AD&D model of actual certainty. Is the next life influenced by ones actions in this one? Does following one deity matter and is there a correct philosophy? What if ones soul shatters because of a traumatic death? What if some Animancer experiments with ones corpse? What if you don't reincarnate and people are lying? What if there is punishment inbetween lives?

 

To me uncertainty is the most interesting position to be in, the afterlife seems to remain as much an unknown as the existence of a soul is a certainty.

 

There's doubt and uncertainty, but of a different variety from our own. There are an abundance of religious beliefs in our world that address the afterlife, promising everything from everlasting bliss for true believers to reincarnation into some higher form or whatever else, but all of those are striking at the same fundamental fear: the cessation of existence. A whole lot of people really don't like the idea of ceasing to exist. They want to believe they will continue to exist in some form or other.

 

The people of PoE don't seem to have that as something to fear. They may not understand the rules surrounding it, whether their actions actually impact anything or not in regards to the way they return, but the existence of souls which continually return to the world seems to be accepted as incontestable fact. Without that conscious or unconscious fear of oblivion, I would imagine attitudes towards death and religious teachings regarding it would differ drastically from our own. 

 

 

Oh yes i've no doubt that there will be a far more alien perception of death in Poe, and i've no doubt that there will be cults taking advantage of this aspect, as well as religions and individuals. I'm not sure that anybody will just commit suicide hoping for a better life, as the uncertainty seems too substantial. However such things as mercy killing may be regarded as a saintly action, while suffering and old age may be regarded as a pointless activity, and perhaps even harmful to the soul.

 

One point to be raised however is the addition of new souls, supposing that population is increasing then there must be many fresh souls born into the wheel, and what is their condition as immortal newborns?

 

Edit: One can't help but be reminded of Tony Jay's Elder God in Legacy of Kain, oh what cruel fate to reduce Nosgoth to an MMO.

Edited by Nonek
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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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 One point to be raised however is the addition of new souls, supposing that population is increasing then there must be many fresh souls born into the wheel, and what is their condition as immortal newborns?

 

 

Supposing that. But is the population increasing?

Maybe there's a definite pool of souls and if it's empty, nobody can get successfully pregnant before someone dies.

(And a whole bunch of people die every day anyway)

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To know it and know it with the same certainty a modern person knows of the existence of gravity. Plenty of people believe in reincarnation in the real world, but it's just that: a belief, subject to the same doubts and skepticism as any other religious belief. For the people of the world of PoE, it appears to be proven fact.

 

For starters, I have to imagine it would change people's perception of death a great deal. A lot of the dread would be removed if you knew you would be coming back before long anyway.

In our time many religion offer bliss. The idea that there is all powerful deity that cares, loves and forgives you no matter what your faults, that you are part of something bigger, that there is purpose to everything no matter how random it seems or how powerless you feel and in the end no matter how bad things are as long as you are good(or trying) you'd be rewarded.

 

But our time isn't really a good comparison. Are you sure that several centuries back people didn't believe in afterlife, haven\hell and all the other mambo jumbo (even magic) with the same certainty that you do about gravity? (it takes a certain amount of certainty to burn a witch)

 

I suppose what we will see is an exaggerated version of our own world from similar era, only here gods can actually interact with us, and soul magic allow us to tap in into power.

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If there was definitive proof of reincarnation the reaction would be largely dependent on how it functions. If the guiding principle is that reincarnation just happens without any particular purpose then I'd imagine it would be a lot like our world just with reincarnation.

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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