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Hormalakh

Throwing potions

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I was wondering if this game would have any "throwing" weapons and whether throwing potions(grenades) is something the devs have considered. If so what sort of skill is this based off? Is it based off the same "throwing weapons" skill or part of athletics, etc? There should be a chance to miss with this, so I'm hoping throwing these "oils of fire" for example, wouldn't always hit.

 

There are other sorts of "explosive potions" i can think of that can give both AoE damage as well as AoE support.

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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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I haven't heard of any, but yes a variety of alchemical grenade weapons would be a nice addition--especially when they are craftily employed by otherwise weak opponents.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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I love grenades, particularly at low levels when something like a single tanglefoot bag can be the difference between life and death.  So here's hoping they're in!

Edited by tajerio

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I wonder if there'll be a throwing accuracy, or if it'll just be "where you click is what you get" and everyone's just flawless at tossing things in the middle of combat. 8P

 

Also, it'd be cool if you could target the ground OR a foe. Even better if accuracy is involved, since you could target a moving foe, miss, and hit the ground behind them or something, Tanglefooting (for example) people you didn't mean to.

 

It's not a huge deal, but, it'd just be nice if thrown grenade-type things had to play on the same playground as other attacks, instead of just being magical "This guy has no Perception or Dexterity whatsoever, but he can still knock the wings off a fly with this exploding potion from 30 feet away!" things.

 

That was one thing I really liked in Shadowrun Returns. It wasn't like in Fallout 3 (and NV? Not sure... didn't use throwing weapons in NV) where you "miss" with a grenade, and it just doesn't hurt anyone at all. A grenade or AoE spell was always going to go NEAR where you were aiming (I don't think anyone's THAT bad at aiming), but it could actually not hit exactly where you wanted it to (depending on distance/accuracy, etc. -- it wasn't just a random chance that your AoE projectile will deviate from its course).

Edited by Lephys

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Not sure if it's just down to the spell mechanic (thrown potions tend to reproduce spell effects in BG/NWN and might be treated as 'casting' the spell with a thrown animation first).

I agree there should be some kind of accuracy check with the potion hitting more accurately or less accurately within an area.  (or being dropped at your feet if you roll a 1 :lol: )


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*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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I like the idea of alchemical bombs being difficult to craft/find, expensive to buy and extremely powerful. It would make sense to have some sort of skill check to determine how accuately the bomb is thrown. Depending on the bomb, there could be a, say, 50% chance of it finding its target, plus whatever bonus is granted by agility. If the initial skill check is not met, subsequent skill checks can be made to calculate exactly how far from the intended target the bomb lands (60% to land within 5 feet, if not, 70% chance to land between 5-10 feet, etc.)

 

Using the bombs as a last-ditch hail-mary to get out of a tough situation could be extremely satisfying: having only one party member standing with three near-death orcs approaching, only to chuck a potion of fireball and desperately hope that it meets its mark.

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I would never use a super expensive and rare object if I have chances of wasting it. If I have a character that is about to die, I'd never bet it on launching him a potion that might not hit the target. Specially having the no miss option that is using it over yourself. So I would bet for a class feat. Maybe rogues could launch potions. Maybe a rogue or wizard kit. Or maybe a feat to ensure potions launched will hit the target.

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I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I'm for one almost detested the phenomenon of throwing potions in D&D CRPGs. I didn't care for it, and I didn't use it unless some silly quest required that of me. Good riddance, I reckon. If I want to throw grenades, I'll just play COH 2. :) 

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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You're thinking too narrowly Indira, what about a blast potion of speed? Or a polymorph juice potion where your enemies can transform into rats? Or a mass potion of invisbility where you throw it at your feet and anyone in the splash range gets "some invisibility" (improving AC for a short duration and characters becoming semi-transparent). 

 

What about a potion of sparks that you throw that will blind enemies (and allies) within the range?

 

It's a great addition, in my opinion.OF course, I am OP, afterall. And I don't mean original poster.

 

 

 

I mean oddly pretentious.

Edited by Hormalakh
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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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Hehe! Those are nice ideas! There's only one thing, though: What you've made then is literally spells that are thrown, and you know what? Spells are indeed cast! 8)

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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^that's my POV - if potions are just spells in a bottle then they cheapen the caster classes (though I could see solo-run players wanting to have them - then again, if you want to solo as a fighter, don't be using spells :p )

What would be interesting is if there were other things that the potions were for, not just recreating spells.

e.g. a potion of berserk (sends the drinker into a wild frenzy) or a potion of courage (aka whisky) or an alchemical potion of grease that helps thieves unlock and open doors quietly.  *shrug* I'm sure there are better ideas.

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_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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what about a blast potion of speed? Or a polymorph juice potion where your enemies can transform into rats? Or a mass potion of invisbility where you throw it at your feet and anyone in the splash range gets "some invisibility" (improving AC for a short duration and characters becoming semi-transparent). 

 

What about a potion of sparks that you throw that will blind enemies (and allies) within the range?

I like the blinding sparks one - basically some kind of alchemy ideas work for me.  Not so much the invisibilty one.

Choking gas bomb or lacing your weapon with flaming damage temporarily might be handy.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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^that's my POV - if potions are just spells in a bottle then they cheapen the caster classes (though I could see solo-run players wanting to have them - then again, if you want to solo as a fighter, don't be using spells :p )

What would be interesting is if there were other things that the potions were for, not just recreating spells.

e.g. a potion of berserk (sends the drinker into a wild frenzy) or a potion of courage (aka whisky) or an alchemical potion of grease that helps thieves unlock and open doors quietly.  *shrug* I'm sure there are better ideas.

I aggree with you. Then there would not be any reason to have a spellcaster. More if it requires time to cast or can be interrupted.

 

After the ideas thrown by Hormalakh, I really think it suits better a specific class like an alchemist that can create splash/throwable chemicals using potions or even ingredients.

 

D&D2 style

 

Thief kit: Alchemist

 

Advantages:

* Once per day  every 3 levels the alchemist can launch a potion of choice to any place or character at 8 + dextery modifier meters of distance. The distance is increased by 1 meter at level 4, 8 and 12.

 

* Once every day at level 5 and once more every 3 levels the alchemist can create a splash potion parting from other potions or raw ingredients. The original potion or ingredient will be lost in the process. The splash potions will give the effect to every character in the splash radius. The splash will cover a radius of 3 meters and will gain an aditional meter every 4 levels, at level 9 and 13. The splash potions cannot be given to a non alchemist .

 

* Once per day aty level 6 and once more every 3 levels the alchemist will gain the chemical trap skill. By using a splash potion, the alchemist can set a trap that will trigger the potion's effect when a NPC steps on the trap.

 

* 20% acid resistance and an aditional 5% every 3 levels to a maximun of 50% at level 12.

 

Disadvantages:

* Alchemist cannot backstab.

 

* Alchemist cannot hide in shadows.

 

*Alchemist cannot set standard traps.

Edited by Frenzy-kun

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From what we have learned about crafting and skills so far, it seems unlikely that we will get a parallel set of 'recipes' to brewing standard,wizard, druid, or priest, potions; if that much.  If a parallel alchemy track was available, we probably would have heard about it in the crafting update.  That is just my opinion; I may be full of sh**.  

 

Either way, I think its valuable to have another track that isn't related to 'spells'.  I'm wondering if alchemy can be tied in some way to animancy or to some other form of elemental magic that runs outside of class based types.  

 

As far as throwing potions goes, we know that intelligence governs area and duration; wouldn't it be simple to coordinate that with throwing potions if a 'thrown weapons' option isn't available?

Edited by curryinahurry

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I've never been a fan of throwing consumables in general, it just feels like a waste to me when most of the time i can simply cast a spell that has a similar affect and doesn't cost me any gold to use. This sorta strays into potions territory as well I guess, but even there i tended only to hold onto some healing potions and the more unique potions that didn't have a corresponding spell.

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There are a couple of thrown "kablooie" weapons.  They don't use a special skill, but the character's normal Accuracy (class base + [{level-1} * 3] + Dexterity), sometimes with a modifier from the item itself.

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Which makes me wonder if there will be a thrown weapons focus?


"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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It's a shame our voice isn't something that'll be throwable. Just imagine a Chanter ventriloquist, 8)

 

I imagine that's how they "cast" ranged effects.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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There are a couple of thrown "kablooie" weapons.  They don't use a special skill, but the character's normal Accuracy (class base + [{level-1} * 3] + Dexterity), sometimes with a modifier from the item itself.

 

 

The in-game descriptions don't say anything about Dexterity improving Accuracy. That's a pretty serious omission, I think.

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Aaand Topic Necromancer of The Year prize goes to PugPug.

This was changed a very long time ago.

 

Well, the wiki brought me here. Not a very good citation, then. :getlost:

Edited by PugPug

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