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Pillars of Eternity – Partnership FAQ for Backers

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Can we be assured that Steam-free boxed copies will be available for people who hadn't backed the project, at release?

Because, with Paradox nowadays, I am not sure.

 

Yes... Let's just bring this out in the open. I'm a backer, and I have no interest in this crap right here! < Another "Paradox" game...

 

[...]

 

Please stop trolling. This is by no way "another Paradox game". It's a 100% Obsidian Entertainment game and you should know that if you read the thread here carefully. Paradox is some kind of subcontractor to Obsidian. Obsidian outsourced marketing and (physical) distribution including backer fulfilment to them because Feargus and Brandon thought that they have better skills on these topics than the guys at Obsidian themselves. That has nothing to do with any EULAs of Paradox games since Paradox just offer some services here. They don't have any decisive power how this game will be developed or how the franchise will develop in the future. And as a matter of fact Pillars of Eternity will be DRM-free as well. DRM-free means that of course you will be able to mod the game for example. It also means that you don't need any client to start the game. Nothing will change that. Paradox won't change that. So calm down, take a breath and please consider the real facts of the deal instead of just sticking to the "Oh my god, I hear PUBLISHER = evil" kind of BS... ;)

 

 

I'm not trolling you nitwit... I'm emotional about it because I'm vested in this. I speak real loud-like when I object. I do that, because I find that all-to-often, when something is clearly wrong... Or, might be headed that way, not one person in the room will say a damn thing about it.

 

I'm not angry... I'm worried.

 

There's a reason I don't back kickstarter MMO's... I refuse to back anything that someone can turn around and revoke my right to play, or mod, or move to a new computer. I am done with that and if things even look end up that way, then I'd prefer to not have even bothered in the first place.

 

I give you five minutes to edit your post to delete that insult....I think you don't want to get banned here.

 

It's ok to be worried but it should have some meat to it. The Eula of one of Paradoxes games has nothing to do with this distribution deal so it's imo kind of pointless. Brandon Adler already told us that they will still sell the game via GoG DRM-free. That means that nobody will revoke your right to play, mod or move to a new computer.

 

Oh, and I'm heavily invested in this game as well as you could probably see at my badge. But that doesn't mean I can't evaluate the situation in a reasonable manner without any pointless accusations/speculations. ;)

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Not to permitted to create mods? Paradox? icon_lol.gif

 

If that's true, then it just goes to show how meaningless EULAs actually are.

More than likely such an clause in the EULA is a way to reserve the right to go after Mods they don't like (say if someone did a sex, slavery or torture mod for one of their games and they felt it'd reflect badly on them), more than a way for them to stop mods at all.

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What is Paradox getting out of this?

A cut from the sales after release of course. ;)


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I'm not trolling you nitwit... I'm emotional about it because I'm vested in this...

Fair enough but your question was asked and answered earlier in this thread. Pillars will be made available through GOG so there will be a DRM-free option for the general public.

 

Yes, this issue is important but name-calling does not help anyone's arguments here.

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Not to permitted to create mods? Paradox? icon_lol.gif

 

If that's true, then it just goes to show how meaningless EULAs actually are.

More than likely such an clause in the EULA is a way to reserve the right to go after Mods they don't like (say if someone did a sex, slavery or torture mod for one of their games and they felt it'd reflect badly on them), more than a way for them to stop mods at all.

 

 

Acutally it's much noise about nothing. In the real EULA mods are not forbidden after all. The only reglementation on mods is that they have to be authorized by Paradox first before publishing them and that they cannot been sold. That's a pretty normal passage in almost any video game nowadays.

 

Here's the original EULA of the game Leviathan Warships: http://store.steampowered.com/eula/202270_eula

 

C. Unless provided otherwise in the Documentation, you shall not display, modify, reproduce and distribute any Game Content, or portion(s) thereof, included with or relating to the Software Product, if any. Any such authorized display, modification, reproduction and distribution shall be in full accord with this EULA. Under no circumstances will your use, display, modification, reproduction and distribution of the Game Content give you any intellectual property or proprietary rights in the Game Content or in any logos and/or trade or service marks of Paradox. All rights, title, and interests belong solely to Paradox and its licensors.

Edited by LordCrash

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What is Paradox getting out of this?

A cut from the sales after release of course. ;)

 

 

Well, that's not very specific, is it. And for the record, I'm not implying that I have any rights to know the details of the deal, I'm merely curious about dealings of my favourite game studio.

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My original question was concerning the future boxed copies available at release for non-backers.

Not boxed copies for backers.

Not GOG digital keys for backers and non-backers.

 

I thank Obsidian for planning to have a digital DRM-free version available and to have a DRM-free boxed copy for us, backers.

I was just worried about future boxed copies, since I was planning to buy DRM-free boxed copies for some of my friends who haven't keep an eye on Pillars of Eternity.

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Sounds good to me. I've no doubt this won't change the quality of the game and I'm glad that Obsidian can now concentrate better on actual game development.

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I am no fan of Paradox (their stance on certain things... , and SOTS2 ) but as long as Paradox can not meddle in any way into the development this is literally nothing to be super "panicky" about... Obsidian is making the game they want to make, and Paradox is just somewhere far away (hopefully)

 

As for the no modding... it's not true Paradox has a stance against modding, you can say many bad things about them, but that isn't one of em. Paradox publishes games, and some of these developers do not fancy modders at all. But you can't blame Paradox for that. Though you can blame them for SOTS2 and how it released... or for the bad support of Sengoku .... ;P

 

Anyhow, first post and ending my lurking saying that... yay ^^

welcome. :)

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I'm not trolling you nitwit... I'm emotional about it because I'm vested in this...

Fair enough but your question was asked and answered earlier in this thread. Pillars will be made available through GOG so there will be a DRM-free option for the general public.

 

Yes, this issue is important but name-calling does not help anyone's arguments here.

 

 

Okay.... "nitwit" is a tongue-in-cheek name calling. It's not meant to be taken offensively, but I guess since he's in Germany, he might not realize that I meant it in the most jovial sense.


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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What is Paradox getting out of this?

A cut from the sales after release of course. ;)

Wasn't that suppose to go in to funding the expansion?

But reading their interview on

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/03/19/project-eternity-release-date/

I'm sort of happy that they backed the project, because by the sound of it they did it purely on faith.

It's a kickstarter project and there's some chance that everyone who enjoys this type of game has already backed it. Although they are putting their faith in to the pre-order statistics, i don't think it's quite the same. And by the sound of it they really do want this project to have a s much success as possible and aren't just moneygrubbers.

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I'm not trolling you nitwit... I'm emotional about it because I'm vested in this...

Fair enough but your question was asked and answered earlier in this thread. Pillars will be made available through GOG so there will be a DRM-free option for the general public.

 

Yes, this issue is important but name-calling does not help anyone's arguments here.

 

 

Okay.... "nitwit" is a tongue-in-cheek name calling. It's not meant to be taken offensively, but I guess since he's in Germany, he might not realize that I meant it in the most jovial sense.

 

Then it's ok. I really didn't know that. ;)


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I give you five minutes to edit your post to delete that insult....I think you don't want to get banned here.

 

It's ok to be worried but it should have some meat to it. The Eula of one of Paradoxes games has nothing to do with this distribution deal so it's imo kind of pointless. Brandon Adler already told us that they will still sell the game via GoG DRM-free. That means that nobody will revoke your right to play, mod or move to a new computer.

 

Oh, and I'm heavily invested in this game as well as you could probably see at my badge. But that doesn't mean I can't evaluate the situation in a reasonable manner without any pointless accusations/speculations. ;)

 

 

I wasn't trying to offend, please forgive me for acting like a Schwachkopf. :p

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Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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My original question was concerning the future boxed copies available at release for non-backers....since I was planning to buy DRM-free boxed copies for some of my friends who haven't keep an eye on Pillars of Eternity.

That's an unknown for now. It would be daft for Paradox to impose DRM on their physical release when DRM-free digital versions are available - but Namco Bandai did exactly that with Witcher 2 and Paradox's "DRM-free to Steam-exclusive" shift doesn't give cause for optimism.

 

However in the worst case (of DRM on the Paradox physical release) you could give your friends a GOG code also so they'd have a DRM-free version along with the physical goodies, though that does mean paying twice.

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My original question was concerning the future boxed copies available at release for non-backers....since I was planning to buy DRM-free boxed copies for some of my friends who haven't keep an eye on Pillars of Eternity.

That's an unknown for now. It would be daft for Paradox to impose DRM on their physical release when DRM-free digital versions are available - but Namco Bandai did exactly that with Witcher 2 and Paradox's "DRM-free to Steam-exclusive" shift doesn't give cause for optimism.

 

However in the worst case (of DRM on the Paradox physical release) you could give your friends a GOG code also so they'd have a DRM-free version along with the physical goodies, though that does mean paying twice.

 

 

Well, let's take Warner Bros who took over physical distribution and publishing for Witcher 2 (and the upcoming Witcher 3) in North America. The box copy sold by Warner Bros is completely DRM-free and customers additionally get a GoG backup of the Enhanced Version. So it's definitely possible to make a deal with a "traditional publisher" without sacrificing a DRM-free approach. Of course the first deal with Namco was different but CDPR learnt from their mistakes...

 

The best solution imo for Pillars would be DRM-free physical box version with a serial which also could be activated on Steam. That way both customer "trends" would be satisfied, the Steam lovers and the DRM-free lovers. ;)

Edited by LordCrash

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However in the worst case (of DRM on the Paradox physical release) you could give your friends a GOG code also so they'd have a DRM-free version along with the physical goodies, though that does mean paying twice.

 

Yes, I was thinking of the same proposal, and beyond the fact that it would be more expensive indeed, I was asking myself how I would tell them that the given DVD would be useless... :/

At least, the optical media would have a nice picture on it.

Wait and see.

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I'm not trolling you nitwit... I'm emotional about it because I'm vested in this...

Fair enough but your question was asked and answered earlier in this thread. Pillars will be made available through GOG so there will be a DRM-free option for the general public.

 

Yes, this issue is important but name-calling does not help anyone's arguments here.

 

 

Okay.... "nitwit" is a tongue-in-cheek name calling. It's not meant to be taken offensively, but I guess since he's in Germany, he might not realize that I meant it in the most jovial sense.

 

Then it's ok. I really didn't know that. ;)

 

 

Mein bester ist aus Deutschland. Er oft erinnert mich auf mir mein Albernheit.

 

Hopefully, I didn't butcher that zuviel. :biggrin:


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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The best solution imo for Pillars would be DRM-free physical box version with a serial which also could be activated on Steam. That way both customer "trends" would be satisfied, the Steam lovers and the DRM-free lovers. ;)

 

Indeed, that would the best solution, and I really hope that will happen. The Divinity Anthology had that and it was great. More publishers should do the same. ;)

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...Yes, I was thinking of the same proposal, and beyond the fact that it would be more expensive indeed, I was asking myself how I would tell them that the given DVD would be useless... :/

Sadly, the DVD is likely to be superfluous whether it is DRM-free or not, given the number of updates that complex RPGs tend to need. Neverwinter Nights 2 took over a year of patching to be truly playable (in part since patches for modders had a tendency to break the included campaign) and it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect a similar thing from Pillars (in fairness, NWN2 is now probably one of Obsidian's greatest achievements).

 

Alternatively, if you want to make things as easy as possible, you could include a DVD with the most recent GOG version and label it: "Install with this instead".

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If there is a way to obtain patches without DRM and without the need to be online, a DRM-free DVD could be useful though, since they could store those patches offline. But, yes, regarding the patches for NWN2, manual patching from the released DVD to the lastest patch  hadn't been the most easy part of the "game". :)

But, at least, it was doable, and I have still my patches for my original DVDs of NWN2 on a HDD (thanks the NWNVault for keeping them!).

 

Nowadays, since Steam has autopatching and GOG keeps patched builds, I am not so optimistic in the idea to have a DRM-free DVD version outside of GOG, since Obsidian would have to store DRM-free patches in another place than Steam and GOG. In the end, you're right, a DRM-free DVD could be useless if no manual patching is available.

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Noooooooooooooooooooo!

 

If Obsidian staff doesn't pack each backer item by hand, how will we have a black market trading in developer fingerprints?

 

"I'll trade you two Urquharts for an Avellone"

 

"You're not getting my Sawyer for anything less than a Cain"

 

and the inevitable

 

"I got Green Shirt Girl's fingerprints "

 

Seriously though, it sounds like from the interview at RPS* this takes some of the burden off of the fulfillment off of Obsidian and sets up how the game gets sold (both in marketing and in actually selling senses) to those who aren't backers. And Obsidian still has final say on how the game will be.

 

*Did RPS use speech recognition software on their interview? "We have a lot to game [gain] from this game being good" and "I would love to say that I could say [sell] ice to the Eskimos" - Yikes!

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My original question was concerning the future boxed copies available at release for non-backers....since I was planning to buy DRM-free boxed copies for some of my friends who haven't keep an eye on Pillars of Eternity.

That's an unknown for now. It would be daft for Paradox to impose DRM on their physical release when DRM-free digital versions are available - but Namco Bandai did exactly that with Witcher 2 and Paradox's "DRM-free to Steam-exclusive" shift doesn't give cause for optimism.

 

However in the worst case (of DRM on the Paradox physical release) you could give your friends a GOG code also so they'd have a DRM-free version along with the physical goodies, though that does mean paying twice.

 

 

Well, let's take Warner Bros who took over physical distribution and publishing for Witcher 2 (and the upcoming Witcher 3) in North America. The box copy sold by Warner Bros is completely DRM-free and customers additionally get a GoG backup of the Enhanced Version. So it's definitely possible to make a deal with a "traditional publisher" without sacrificing a DRM-free approach. Of course the first deal with Namco was different but CDPR learnt from their mistakes...

 

The best solution imo for Pillars would be DRM-free physical box version with a serial which also could be activated on Steam. That way both customer "trends" would be satisfied, the Steam lovers and the DRM-free lovers. ;)

 

Holy...

 

Didn't know about WB distributing Witcher 2 in NA, but knowing the stance on DRM that the big studios have, I wouldn't have given it a snowball's chance in hell that they would agree to distribute it without wrapping it in 7 layers of DRM. I'm guessing that the part of WB which dealt with it was a long way removed from the area which deals with movie distribution (and is slightly more customer friendly...)

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If there is a way to obtain patches without DRM and without the need to be online, a DRM-free DVD could be useful though, since they could store those patches offline. But, yes, regarding the patches for NWN2, manual patching from the released DVD to the lastest patch  hadn't been the most easy part of the "game". :)

But, at least, it was doable, and I have still my patches for my original DVDs of NWN2 on a HDD (thanks the NWNVault for keeping them!).

 

Nowadays, since Steam has autopatching and GOG keeps patched builds, I am not so optimistic in the idea to have a DRM-free DVD version outside of GOG, since Obsidian would have to store DRM-free patches in another place than Steam and GOG. In the end, you're right, a DRM-free DVD could be useless if no manual patching is available.

Well, I don't think that it would be a big problem to store some update files in a server somewhere at Obsidian. ;)

 

CDPR solved that issue by developing an own launcher for the DRM-free version of Witcher 2 with an integrated manual version check + download possibility without the need to search for updates on the website and stuff.

Edited by LordCrash

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Not to permitted to create mods? Paradox? icon_lol.gif

 

If that's true, then it just goes to show how meaningless EULAs actually are.

 

yea i was laughing on that specific comment in the list too ;) obviously this guy just played the wrong paradox games hehe

Edited by vahadar

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