Shapeshifting Request

[Lephys]

Why did the Druid choose Serpent form over Wolf form?

 

He wanted to make sure it scaled.

 

*flees*

[Tsuga C]

The forms will scale in power as you level.  The reason for choosing one form over another will be for the special ability each one inherently comes with.

Kudos for this scaling of forms. It's details like this that give me great hope for this game.

[Cubiq]

The forms will scale in power as you level.  The reason for choosing one form over another will be for the special ability each one inherently comes with.

I'm wondering if you can tell us how the armor of the caster wearing it will affect the forms?

Will it stack with it, or will the form have it's own deflection/stat progression?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Something I disliked about shapeshifting in most D&D videogames is that it would remove any bonus spell slots gained from equiping items.

 

Will this be an issue in PoE?

[BrainMuncher]

Something I disliked about shapeshifting in most D&D videogames is that it would remove any bonus spell slots gained from equiping items.

 

Will this be an issue in PoE?

Wow I forgot about that, you're right that was really discouraging.

[Cubiq]

 

Nerfed forms

You can turn into a mindflayer but you can't stun, you can't drain intelligence and are pretty much a druid who looks like a mindflayer. I understand sometimes unlocking abilities over time, but if I can turn into a form let me use it's powers. Spiders can poison, basilisks can turn things to stone, nymphs can charm etc.

I have never played actual p&p d&d so i have a question. Do the spells in the rule book also have these nerfed limitations, or is this something that's just in the game?

[Stasis_Sword]

 

 

Nerfed forms

You can turn into a mindflayer but you can't stun, you can't drain intelligence and are pretty much a druid who looks like a mindflayer. I understand sometimes unlocking abilities over time, but if I can turn into a form let me use it's powers. Spiders can poison, basilisks can turn things to stone, nymphs can charm etc.

I have never played actual p&p d&d so i have a question. Do the spells in the rule book also have these nerfed limitations, or is this something that's just in the game?

 

 

At least in 2nd edition the only limitation was since the character retained there own mind they did not gain powers based on supernatural intelligence. If you turned into a vampire you drained levels, if you turned into a dragon you could breath fire.

[Stasis_Sword]

 

My personal hope is that Obsidian are going to take a little more uncoventional take on shapeshifting and not go for the "usual" Lycanthrope forms.

You know, Werecat-->Werewolf-->Werebear-->Weretiger or some variation of that.

 

We're definitely going to start with traditional forms but we plan to expand the roster over time.  I like weresharks as much (more?) than anyone, but I wouldn't put a wereshark form ahead of a werewolf or werebear.

 

 

@J.E. Sawyer - I have nothing agains werebears, werewolves or weretigers except that often feel very similar. They are all furry with powerful teeth and claws, usually with only minor stat differences. I have faith that you guys will find a way to make them feel different but it's a challenge when the base creatures are so similar.

 

Some were forms I think would be interesting:

Werebat - Wings, sonic screams, seeing in darkness

Wererhino - Giant horn, thick armor

Werespider - Extra arms/legs, poision, webbing

Weresnake - Scales, poison fangs

Werescoripion - Claws, exoskeleton, giant stinger

Weredrake - Wings, claws, tail, fire breathing (pretty please)

[J.E. Sawyer]

Something I disliked about shapeshifting in most D&D videogames is that it would remove any bonus spell slots gained from equiping items.

 

Will this be an issue in PoE?

 

It shouldn't be as big of an issue in PoE because you don't pre-assign spell slots.  Druids effectively cast like sorcerers in PoE.  So you might temporarily lose a per-rest casting when you transform but you would regain it when you switch back (the items remembers if it's been used already).  Nothing's "assigned" to that slot so there's nothing to lose.

[JerseyP]

I hope you don't use all these silly were(animal) names. Werewolf and maybe werebear make sense. Spirit(animal) sounds a little better, or just shapeshifting into the name of the animal. Turning into a giant spider would be cool. Turning into a WereGiantSpider would be stupid. Maybe its just me. 

[ItinerantNomad]

it would be nice if certain forms are less combat oriented but more support oriented. For example, a werebird giving increased sight to the party, improving accuracy or a weremonkey giving improved climbing abilities (RP purposes) or something else like that.

[Cubiq]

I hope you don't use all these silly were(animal) names. Werewolf and maybe werebear make sense. Spirit(animal) sounds a little better, or just shapeshifting into the name of the animal. Turning into a giant spider would be cool. Turning into a WereGiantSpider would be stupid. Maybe its just me. 

there will only be humanoid shapeshifting forms i believe.

 

i wouldn't mind playing this

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111128995/3261916-3962841448-man-s.jpg

[Lephys]

You could always use interesting-language forms of the words for the animals, like "Lobo" for Wolf, just as an example. I mean, I know a lot of the lore and names are going with a certain form/style of language, but I'm too uncultured to produce an example befitting that, so I went with "Lobo."

[Rillifane]

it would be nice if certain forms are less combat oriented but more support oriented. For example, a werebird giving increased sight to the party, improving accuracy or a weremonkey giving improved climbing abilities (RP purposes) or something else like that.

 

Yup. Some form abilities that aren't purely combat oriented will be fun and make the druid more versatile. For example make cat/rat form has stalk/(move silently) ability that can scount as a rogue. Or a Falcon shape that can move faster and sweep over the ground without hampered by taglefoot or web spell. The falcon shape can thus serve as a bait and has great tactical value.

[Rillifane]

Another concern of the shapeshifting is item merging.  The higher-tier equipment bonus is often so great that it offset any value provided by the shapes, and sometimes make shapeshifing(without item merging) totally meaningless. (NeverWinter night shifting for example). Will there be any item bonus carried over to the shapes?

[Lephys]

Another concern of the shapeshifting is item merging.  The higher-tier equipment bonus is often so great that it offset any value provided by the shapes, and sometimes make shapeshifing(without item merging) totally meaningless. (NeverWinter night shifting for example). Will there be any item bonus carried over to the shapes?

Josh confirmed your weapon would be "replaced" by your shifted form's natural weapon (claws, etc.), but he didn't make it to my question about armor and such.

 

I would think something would have to carry over. Otherwise, your Level 12 Druid can just spiritshift at the beginning of a fight and suddenly get Level 12 offense and defense, essentially for free. *shrug* What reason is there to be in non-wereform if you can cast all your stuff while in wereform? Especially if your non-wereform needs to purchase/acquire weapons, armor, and accessories, and your wereform is already good-to-go?

[Rillifane]

I would think something would have to carry over. Otherwise, your Level 12 Druid can just spiritshift at the beginning of a fight and suddenly get Level 12 offense and defense, essentially for free. *shrug* What reason is there to be in non-wereform if you can cast all your stuff while in wereform? Especially if your non-wereform needs to purchase/acquire weapons, armor, and accessories, and your wereform is already good-to-go?

 

 

This is where balancing shapeshifting becomes tricky. Total power of a character is not determined solely by his/her level, but also gears. Unless this game is created so that the equipments are strongly connected to the level of a character, I don't know what's a reasonable level 12 offense/defense? This is not diablo where gears are level restricted and repalced frequently. In an open evironment/non-level scaling RPG, it's possible to acquire some better equipment early(actually that's part of the fun) or still struggling with lower tier equipment at higher level.

 

The way traditional crpg deal with shapeshifting is directly overwriting the equipments with  non-scaling creature hide/claws..., fixed overwrited attributes, this often creates a situation where the form is either too powerful earlier or too weak later. One way to solve the problem is actually considering the shapeshifting as a stat buff without altering any equipments of a character and without setting a static attributes of a form.  Since shapeshifting is an use per rest ability, why not simply considering it a additional boost spell? (For example, a bear form serve as a +6Str +4Con spell along with some special talents like roar or knockdown and certain resistance or immunity.....instead of setting the str to 30), and this shapeshifting boost spell becomes stronger as characters progress.

 

As for the point to not stay in were form, like stat boost spells, they are use per rest and duration-bind(??), so it's situation dependent but not always on feature. 

[Lephys]

As for the point to not stay in were form, like stat boost spells, they are use per rest and duration-bind(??), so it's situation dependent but not always on feature.

As far as I know, they last 'til the end of combat. I dunno if that means you can't shift back prematurely (voluntarily), or what. Also, I dunno if they take up a per-rest spell slot, or if they're just an ability. If they take up a spell slot, then... yeah... that helps a bit, I suppose. Still doesn't quite cover the "you're just what you were but better" aspect of things. Even if all that's the case, it's still a spell that lasts for the entirety of an encounter and gives you additional abilities at absolutely no penalty (if there's no disparity between your non-were form with full equipment and your were-form without the benefits of any equipment).