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IndiraLightfoot

Spill your blasphemous opinions on CRPGs here

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Here are a few blasphemous opinions of mine concerning CRPGs that I've merrily listed here:

-I prefer four characters in a party over six

-I've come to appreciate 3D CRPGs as slightly more fun than isometric ones

-The NWN2 trilogy is better than BG 1 and 2, and basically any other CRPG in history

-A minimalist UI is my cup of tea, not chunky boards and cariyatid-ridden blocks

-RTwP is better for CRPGs than turn-based (even if I voted turn-based for ToN)

-I actually enjoy the occasional random encounter

-Pixel hunting and searching areas can be good fun in a CRPG...

-...and the same goes for grinding

-Companions are great and all, but I love creating an entire party from scratch even more

-Character creation and dabbling with builds is like a third of what makes a CRPG great

-Uneven pacing and occasional baddies being out of one's league is often good news

-I've never really liked them magic users: I prefer to sneak, backstab, shoot arrows or just bash

-The music and the sound effects is not just atmosphere. It's game-breakingly important pillars in a game

-Pre-buffing never was fun

-Occasional countdowns in combat? Sure

 

Now, good folks, what are your blasphemous passions?

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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- Dungeon Runners aren't fun.

- RTwP is frequently smarter than turn based combat

- The original campaign of NWN2 was better than any of Bioware's campaigns

- Item Durability and crafting should have been left in the game.

- Hard counters occasionally make for fun combat.

- min-maxers are annoying to listen to

- Skyrim is an open-world shooter that masquerades as an RPG

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- The Witchers did sex, romance, and women well

- Jade Empire is the best BioWare game

- Baldur's Gate is a tedious grind and Minsc should be shot

- D&D sucks in almost every way

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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- I hate stealth with a fiery passion.

- AD&D is a horrible basis for cRPGs.  I firmly believe it held back NWN2 (agree with you Indira on its quality) from being an even better game.

    - Subpoint: Vancian magic is hilariously awful as a game system.

- Bad combat hurts a game with a good story more than a bad story hurts a game with good combat.

- Tabula rasa is a really stupid way to start off a player character.

- BioWare's average character is more interesting than Obsidian's average character, but Obsidian's best characters can't be beat.

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Hehe! Some of your opinions I don't agree with, but boy, are they fun to read!! :w00t:

 

Anameforobsidian: Hard counters indeed make combat fun occasionally

PrimeJunta: Having replayed BG1 some year back, I almost agree now (I still loved it in my first playthrough way back). And Minsc should be executed by a firing squad!

 

 

- AD&D is a horrible basis for cRPGs.  I firmly believe it held back NWN2 (agree with you Indira on its quality) from being an even better game.

    - Subpoint: Vancian magic is hilariously awful as a game system.

- Bad combat hurts a game with a good story more than a bad story hurts a game with good combat.

- Tabula rasa is a really stupid way to start off a player character.

 

And these three points are great too! :yes:

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Now, good folks, what are your blasphemous passions?

 

You've just opened Pandora's Box

 

:aiee:

 

I couldn't help it. It was one of those mornings. I needed something to cheer me up. So far I'm happily surprised by the frankness of the replies...

Nah, I knew you guys were capable of speaking up for what you believe in already. :)

 

Inspired by Tajerio's point on AD&D (it should be D&D 3.5, but who's counting?) and NWN2, I'll add:

-I love that Josh & Co is making so many changes to the game system for PE. I don't want a rerun of the classic D&D iterations for this game

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Inspired by Tajerio's point on AD&D (it should be D&D 3.5, but who's counting?) and NWN2, I'll add:

-I love that Josh & Co is making so many changes to the game system for PE. I don't want a rerun of the classic D&D iterations for this game

 

Someone once told me that everything after the original first edition counted as AD&D, and I have never been able to get that lie completely out of my head.

 

I too am overjoyed that nostalgia =/= copying.

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Great idea IndiraLightfoot.

 

- Planescape torment would be a better game if it wasn't so ugly.

- I'm loving all the changes obsidian are making to the gameplay in PoE. I think they all sound awesome.

- I like how simple and "boring" Baldur's Gate 1 is compared to other crpgs.

- I think Fallout 1 and New Vegas are the best Fallouts, and Fallout 2 sucked.

- More games should be timed like Fallout 1.

Edited by Marky
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Here are a few blasphemous opinions of mine concerning CRPGs that I've merrily listed here:

 

-I prefer four characters in a party over six  - I'm fine with either number. I guess it kinda depends on the available pool of NPC's

 

-I've come to appreciate 3D CRPGs as slightly more fun than isometric ones - I don't think fun has any connection to that

 

-The NWN2 trilogy is better than BG 1 and 2, and basically any other CRPG in history - Meh. I liked NWN 2, but didn't really like MoTB

 

-A minimalist UI is my cup of tea, not chunky boards and cariyatid-ridden blocks

 

-RTwP is better for CRPGs than turn-based (even if I voted turn-based for ToN) - I like both. The game does flow faster with RTwP tough

 

-I actually enjoy the occasional random encounter - ditto. Especially when there are interesting ones. I do hate it when you have to pass trough an area a dozen times and new enemies keep constantly spawning. You get the "OMG! Again? How many times must I murder everything on this road???"

 

-Pixel hunting and searching areas can be good fun in a CRPG...   - I prefer a more involved kind of searching. Clues and misteries, rather than just stumbling around.

 

-...and the same goes for grinding - grinding isn't fun, has never be fun and will never be fun. It just just PADDING.

 

-Companions are great and all, but I love creating an entire party from scratch even more - sometimes me too

 

-Character creation and dabbling with builds is like a third of what makes a CRPG great  - kinda, yeah.

 

-Uneven pacing and occasional baddies being out of one's league is often good news  - yes.

 

-I've never really liked them magic users: I prefer to sneak, backstab, shoot arrows or just bash - I don't really like a rouge class in newer games. It's just a fighter under a different name. As far as I'm concerned there should be only two main types - magic users and the rest. Everything should branch from there.

 

-The music and the sound effects is not just atmosphere. It's game-breakingly important pillars in a game - agreed, tough I don't see what's blasphemous about this

 

my thought, above ^^

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* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

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-The every stat is useful for everyone is something that should have become standard in CRPGs a long time ago, also, I have ye to see a game play change they made I didn't agree with.
-I'd rather have a great short game than a mediocre long one
-Devs should remember that most players don't even finish the game once, and even fewer more than once.
-Related to the above the illusion of choice is not so bad, make people believe they are making a difference, even if they are not.
-Having non magic users be able to shrug off fireballs and be as powerful as magic users breaks immersion big time for me (PoE seems to avoid this)
-Torment and Mask of the Betrayer had great stories, but there is a reason I only recommend them to hardcore CRPG players, and I'm not going to replay them.
-New Vegas was far, far better than Fallout 1&2 (yes, it's subjective)
-Being forced to spend more than 5 seconds to pre-buff before combat is annoying as hell.
-save or die spells can die in a ditch
-Evil/insane choices are a bit of a waste, give me choices I can see myself making, otherwise you spend a lot of dev time on something few will ever see.
-Timed quests can join save or die spells in the ditch.
-I'd rather have a few companions that interact a lot than 10+ that hardly say anything.
-Resurrection spells can join the others in the ditch, it makes death a lot less meaningful.
-Kindly stop having religions/religious people be insane by default (see Honest Hearts for a more fair way of doing it).
-If you want to have us fight animals, at least use ones that makes sense (no, wolves are not bloodthirsty man hunters)
-Do not make companions without personality who are only there to talk about their foreign culture.

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-The music and the sound effects is not just atmosphere. It's game-breakingly important pillars in a game - agreed, tough I don't see what's blasphemous about this

my thought, above ^^

 

I certainly agree with you. It's just that so very often, music and sound effects are mentioned as an afterthought, sadly.

 

EDIT: I just saw mur'phon's post: that's one impressive list of "blasphemous opinions"! Kudos to you for sharing that!

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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- I find all Fallout games boring. Even New Vegas.

- Conversely, I think Morrowind was the worst "modern" Elder Scrolls game, and the series has only been improving ever since. I've found both Oblivion and Skyrim to be rather fun, with some really memorable quests.


"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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- I did not like Mask of the Betrayer and I hated seeing my infleunce on my companions in numbers. I also hate the soul drinking mechanic. I hated having only 4 (5) companions to choose from.

- I liked Oblivion better than Morrowind, despite the stupid autoleveling system.

- I love first person party based, turn based, RPGs like Might and Magic and Wizardry better than anything the modern world has made. I even buy crappy games with this kind of system, simpy because I have so much fun with it.

- Knights of the Old Republic remains my high point of CRPGs. (I cry for you Bioware :(  Where have the good times gone?)

- While in general I hate button mashing, Vampire: Bloodlines, has some of my favourite characters and quests of any RPG.

- While I loved the story of Planescape:Torment the middle of the game was too much an adventure game for me, and too little an RPG.

Edited by forgottenlor

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-I hate first person games. This goes back to my childhood with Ultima Underworld, Eye of the Beholder, M&M, etc... I don't know why, but I just hate first person.

-I almost never bother with an "evil" playthrough any more. Evil in CRPGs always seems to boil down to being stupidly cruel, and rarely make sense in context with the rest of the story. "I'm going to save the world! But first, let me beat up this old woman for her 3 copper pieces!"

-I'm starting to realize that most of the games I loved growing up are pretty awful now(see: Baldur's Gate).

-Bad art direction can ruin a game for me. I don't need a game to have all the modern bells and whistles... But if I dislike the art, I constantly get distracted by it. 

-I prefer RTwP, despite also voting for turn-based for Torment :D

Edited by Noviere
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I believe D&D doesn't translate well to video games, it denies player's agency and it turns combat to auto resolve based on stats. You only have to look at how every WRPG company has moved away from it and into hybrids.

Dungeon Crawlers make me claustrophobic and seem more like a version of hell than a game, try to vary the environment some more instead of everything being a square.
 

I also preferred NWN2 over BG, if only because combat wasn't as grueling.

 

VTM:B is my all time best RPG ever.

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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1) Dungeons, parties and combat in general don't add to an RPG, they're just filler to pad out time, consequently:

2) All the stalwart RPG series of the 80s and early-to-mid 90s suck, except Ultima; specifically seven:

3) Single button resolve is the best combat system ever, the whole RTwP vs TB debate is choosing between two lame horses.

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forgottenlor & Orogun01: I bought VtM:B on some Steam sale over X-mas, so I have yet to play that game. Your replies certainly gets my hopes up! :)

 

 

1) Dungeons, parties and combat in general don't add to an RPG, they're just filler to pad out time, consequently:

 

3) Single button resolve is the best combat system ever, the whole RTwP vs TB debate is choosing between two lame horses.

Ouch! Those are two brave ("blasphemous") statements. Still their is some resounding, horrid truth to them, reverbating at the bottom of the well of wisdom whence they spewed.

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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-I believe many crpgs have too much text. Good narrative design would allow for a lot of subtext and lore to be delivered visually or audibly.

-don't (necessarily) need a story with a villain, beginning middle and end, instead I would load the world to the brim with organisations and let you pick a few to join and lead.

-skilltags have ruined dialogue design.

-most CRPG's aren't intelligent or mature, but are trope and cliché laden.

-the pasty bland look of the IE games was terrible. A little vibrancy goes a long way.

-Paladins are dumb zealots, all of them. I judge everyone who picks a paladin or blackguard as their forum avatar.

-willpower comes with intelligence, not convictions, rogues would have greater willpower than paladins.

-Wizards are lame skeleton key characters for munchkins.

-Monks are cool, eastern kung-fu monks are cooler.

-no crpg I've ever played was daring enough in its subject matter.

-I'm fine with romance porn.

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Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
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Seven of your claims are simply brilliant! :w00t:

-I believe many crpgs have too much text. Good narrative design would allow for a lot of subtext and lore to be delivered visually or audibly.
-don't (necessarily) need a story with a villain, beginning middle and end, instead I would load the world to the brim with organisations and let you pick a few to join and lead.
-skilltags have ruined dialogue design.
-most CRPG's aren't intelligent or mature, but are trope and cliché laden.
-the pasty bland look of the IE games was terrible. A little vibrancy goes a long way.
-Paladins are dumb zealots, all of them. I judge everyone who picks a paladin or blackguard as their forum avatar.
-Wizards are lame skeleton key characters for munchkins.

-I'm fine with romance porn.

 

But the last one is an A-bomb on this forum... ;)

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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  • Fallout: New Vegas is the best Fallout game in the series and Fallout 2 is much better than Fallout.

Icewind Dale is an expertly paced dungeon crawling masterpiece with a underrated story and the most accurate and awesomely enjoyable implementation of the AD&D 2E rules in any video game ever.

Knights of the Old Republic is an incredibly overrated game with some of the most boringly cliche companion characters ever.

NWN and NWN2's OC's are equally horrible, but NWN2 followed it up with awesome, unique expansions while HoTU only received the praise it did because it was a shallow copy of BG2's Underdark section that played heavily on people's nostalgia in a time where the western CRPG genre was virtually dead.

Mask of the Betrayer's story is better than Planescape: Torment's.

I don't understand how CDPR got away with making The Witcher 2's interface, controls and gameplay so blatantly console-ized compared to its predecessor. They basically Mass Effecced all over the game and didn't even do a proper job at it. The UI is unintuitive, the controls choppy and unresponsive, and the gameplay feels messy and unpolished.

When you first played the Baldur's Gate series as a 14-18 year old and thought it was the best thing on the face of the earth, playing them again as a 28-32 year old is quite the eye-opener...

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Shadow Thief of the Obsidian Order


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Combat is easy, you draw up a system once then paste ctrl+c ctrl+v enemies all over the map. They don't need personalities, they don't need dialogue, they don't need to be a character at all. Characters are hard. Believable interactions between characters is even harder. So you budget them carefully to keep up interest at key points in the game.

 

The perfect RPG is the infinite-page book where every page branches to any one of an infinite number of pages. But it has no randomness, no mechanics, no failure state.

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