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Ukraine burns


Tagaziel

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Well, I've seen Russians display a Nazi flag at soccer matches, that's about the second most surprising thing related to them, short of a Jewish Nazi.  Just random to refer to US secessionists' flag which is just associated with racism these days.

Israeli neo-Nazis exist.

 

Wonder what conditions that money comes with.

It's not yet finalized. The strings attached by Putin and his oligarchs would likely be worse, propping up Yanukovych and his clique.

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And we all know that's a prestigious meaningful award given to men or women who bleed, sweat, and cry peacefulness, awarded by an unbiased objective intelligent committee.

 

Seriously, @#)*$ any Nobel prize. Their credibility is long since been blown away. Good for anyone who gets due to the possible monetary award, but other than that it's rubbish.

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Well, I've seen Russians display a Nazi flag at soccer matches, that's about the second most surprising thing related to them, short of a Jewish Nazi.  Just random to refer to US secessionists' flag which is just associated with racism these days.

 

 

Anyone who thinks that the Confederate flag is only associated with racism these days is mistaken.

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It's been a long time since I posted here... but as tensions heat up, let's read up again I assumed...

Also, the EU announced a $15 billion aid package for Ukraine. GG, EU.

Where the heck is that money coming from anyway? Yay for me EU spending billions of money to a lost cause. And look at recent reports, Spain and Italy are in problems *yet* again. How odd. Let's throw more billions at them too. That surely solves everything.

:facepalm:

 

Also I'm really not surprised or offended by Russia's acting. "You support Russia, we put sanctions! Now you don't, we give $15B."

Yeah, no blackmail or forcing one's will there...

Conclusion - Putin is imperialist pig who thinks he can control sovereign country because its in 'Sphere of influence of Russia'.

 

Can you imagine German president saying that third reich was best thing for Germany in past century?

I know Americans celebrate genocide on the native Indians every year with big feasts.

 

The US and EU think they can force their will on many countries, including (but not limited to) Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukrain, Egypt, South Africa, Russia, Brazil.

And boohoo if one of those countries dares to defy them. Who's thinking they own the world here?

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^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

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Generally in Europe, the Conferedate flag is the unofficial flag of rebellion, not necessarily a racist one.

 

Back to topic: 

 

smJnMoT.png

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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So Israeli neo-nazis exist and the Confederate flag is a symbol of rebellion in Europe.

 

Learn new things everyday.

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It's not a matter of, if they were justified in removing him or not. It's a matter of there being no elections for a real government, it's a matter of the interim government being comprised of equally corrupt people and mostly it's a matter of the misrepresentation of the people of Ukraine, right now only the western Ukrainians seem to have rights.

 

I was pretty sure I pointed out the representation issue....

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Well, I've seen Russians display a Nazi flag at soccer matches, that's about the second most surprising thing related to them, short of a Jewish Nazi.  Just random to refer to US secessionists' flag which is just associated with racism these days.

 

 

Anyone who thinks that the Confederate flag is only associated with racism these days is mistaken.

 

 

Is it one of those "take it back" types of movements, because as an outsider I typically find use of the Confederate Flag to be a contentious and misguided thing, going back to the the "Slavery Issue" that was such a catalyst in provoking the CSA to rebel.

 

I'm of the opinion that anyone who thinks using the Confederate Flag to represent anything other than slavery is going to immediately undermine their position enough that it's almost meaningless.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the links numbers.  I'll have to read all those later just due to quantity.

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Thanks for all the links numbers.  I'll have to read all those later just due to quantity.

They are indeed neat, though hardly supporting the notion of a neo-fascist Ukraine wanting to kill all the juice.

 

Incidentally, fascists.

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So Israeli neo-nazis exist and the Confederate flag is a symbol of rebellion in Europe.

 

Learn new things everyday.

 

What would you know, you live in Houston, the most soulless city i ever been to. It's a horrible wasteland only held together by a few highways and som finance towers in the middle. And that five'o'clock traficjam in I-10 to San Antonio is beyond this world. I'll take the 405 in Los Angeles anytime over that one. 

 

Back to topic: What if Yanukovich never fled to Russia, how different the situation would've been. Or not. No one understands Russia.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Back to topic: What if Yanukovich never fled to Russia, how different the situation would've been. Or not. No one understands Russia.

He'd be forced to cooperate, then stand trial. Russia would have to invent another reason to justify its invasion of Crimea.

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He'd be forced to cooperate, then stand trial. Russia would have to invent another reason to justify its invasion of Crimea.

TERRORISTS... or wait... WMD's!

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

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The big issues comes down to whether or not the impeachment that happened on the 22nd is considered valid.

Considering our last post, i'd say the big issue is whether anyone other than Russian propaganda tool would call it 'fascist putsch'...

 

First let me start with a little detour, stating the obvious that most conflicts are economical in nature. For example Egypt revolution, was about economic uncertainty, poor infrastructure etc( e.g. job opportunities and access to running water) although it was later hijacked by external interest and turned into a Religious vs Secularist conflict. Similarly in Syria the economic situation aggravated by the drought of 2011, was helped by Iran into becoming a sectarian conflict first(the good ol' fear mongering they are coming to get you, to mobilize Alawite minority and forget they to wasn't too happy with Assad government). Same goes here the crisis in Ukraine started as economical and was guided into East vs West by Russia, by bulling its smaller neighbor into compliance with its policy and the Euromaiden protest were about Ukraine Economy and Yanukovych's rule, against Soviet-inherited corruption, kleptocracy, nepotism and Russia bullying.

 

I agree with your assessment in the rest of your post, Ukrainian situation is complex (economically and socially), both sides has valid grievances and both sides need to take a good doze of reality. Which is why they needed to unite and deal with their issues, to achieve popular legitimacy. Otherwise any attempt by the state which is perceived as corrupt to the bone and Russia steering the pot will only end like Syria/Egypt.

 

So where fascist crap comes in and why? this and other reports started to flow in volume from Russian national media(which I like to call Putin Daily Pravda) once Yanukovych began loosing control of the situation. With the goal of de-legitimizing the protesters who seen as working against Russian interests in Ukraine and Crimea in particular(where Russian fleet is parked). Trying to marginalize actual issues by perpetuation an image people can easily recognize and discredit. If you are un familiar with Russian media/censorship, sentiments toward ww2/fascist and the large Russian ethnic in east Ukraine, where several major ww2 battles were fought. Think about it in terms of Fox news demographic response to economic initiative labeled as communist initiative and rammed 24/7. This and some other previously discussed/mentioned issues(like fear mongering, organization/planing) is something you can incite the crowds with (if you look closely at the Pro-Russian demonstration you can easily spot the ww2 themed posters) overall helping Russia to create a counter block to Euromaiden that would promote its interests. With one winner Russia, and one looser Ukraine across all ethnics.

 

 

21d254w.jpg

 

Btw as previously noted, it doesn't mean that recent conflict didn't gave rise to various radicals on both sides. The question if those people define either side (as oppose to the usual crowd that was drawn once the violence started like a mouth to a flame, including the Euromaiden protesters in the last month, government employed thugs, and now pro-Russia protesters) or propoganda effort to perpetuate a certain image to advance once cause ...

 

p.s. I hope it's not too tl;dr kind of post, I tried to keep it short.

 

Mostly because, if your President is most concerned with remaining in power (which I believe Yanukovych is), that alone is a good reason to question his legitimacy.

Personally, I suspect that Russia gave him asylum and his statement was part of their deal. Edited by Mor
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Personally, I suspect that Russia gave him asylum and his statement was part of their deal.

It's still a compromise to his legitimacy as head of state.

 

 

i'd say the big issue is whether anyone other than Russian propaganda tool would call it 'fascist putsch'...

Fascist elements are certainly going to be present. I'd more be wondering if anyone legitimately feels that all the protestors wanting to remove Yanukovych are all in alignment in why they were storming the government buildings.

 

I mean, even in (the very silly) Vancouver riot, there were anarchists among the crowd looking on starting trouble. They just helped rally the drunken, angry hockey fans by instigating trouble.

 

 

I emphasised the word fascist because I think seeing this as a putsch (which is basically just a coup) isn't really an unfair way to look at it. Fascist elements exist within those that sought to overthrow for sure. Further, things like repealing the language laws are certainly going to cause concern, especially if there are concerns over how much power/influence fascists have obtained (and I think it'd be convenient to simply state "none at all"). It's obviously been established much longer in Canada, but despite being almost exclusively an anglophone, I'd consider it a bad sign if French was suddenly no longer an official language of Canada.

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Body is ok.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Well, I've seen Russians display a Nazi flag at soccer matches, that's about the second most surprising thing related to them, short of a Jewish Nazi.  Just random to refer to US secessionists' flag which is just associated with racism these days.

 

 

Anyone who thinks that the Confederate flag is only associated with racism these days is mistaken.

 

 

Is it one of those "take it back" types of movements, because as an outsider I typically find use of the Confederate Flag to be a contentious and misguided thing, going back to the the "Slavery Issue" that was such a catalyst in provoking the CSA to rebel.

 

I'm of the opinion that anyone who thinks using the Confederate Flag to represent anything other than slavery is going to immediately undermine their position enough that it's almost meaningless.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the links numbers.  I'll have to read all those later just due to quantity.

 

 

Somehow, everyone focused on the CSA flag and managed to miss homeskillet there trying to plant a celtic cross AND also the flag of the Nazi collaborationist militia UPA. That is Kiev city hall, by the way.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all the links numbers.  I'll have to read all those later just due to quantity.

They are indeed neat, though hardly supporting the notion of a neo-fascist Ukraine wanting to kill all the juice.

 

Incidentally, fascists.

 

 

No, they obviously don't support your poorly built strawmen. But I'm not really surprised that you keep putting those up as anything you make resembling an actual argument doesn't really hold up under scrutiny, heh.

Edited by 213374U

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Somehow, everyone focused on the CSA flag and managed to miss homeskillet there trying to plant a celtic cross AND also the flag of the Nazi collaborationist militia UPA. That is Kiev city hall, by the way.

Well, it was the only symbol I recognized there. :p

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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