J.E. Sawyer Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 This is bad news and concerns me immensely. I am one of those that believes Romance adds to the realism and immersive aspect of your journey in an RPG. Especially around your interaction with party members. Also I don't understand why Obsidian wouldn't want to include something in PoE that the majority of fans want Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. 34 twitter tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jajo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 [...] whilst practically ridiculous, [...] 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) This is bad news and concerns me immensely. I am one of those that believes Romance adds to the realism and immersive aspect of your journey in an RPG. Especially around your interaction with party members. Also I don't understand why Obsidian wouldn't want to include something in PoE that the majority of fans want Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. Very well said, and with fine reasoning to back it all up! If only these words had been guiding the dev teams that attempted NPCs doing romances earlier in the history of computer games. This is so true. Writing a romance well takes oodles of time (and of course talent in spades too). Edited February 11, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot 3 *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 It's all moot now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cultist Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 It's all moot now. Only until Poun Hownd the sex troll mod is released. "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 We do gods work. For it shall be written: Drive forth the promancer and cast him from thy garden, for he is deviant and without virtue. Suffer not his kind to live among thee, for verily he shall bring forth wedding mods. And thou shalt know this villain by his cry, the cry of squee. Don't forget the inventory-slot babies and elven fairy wings. There is one good thing that came out of the Aerie Romance in BG2: The awesome dialogue option you got when she tells you she's pregnant: Aerie: "Blah, blah, blah, I'm gonna have your baby...blah blah blah" You: "That's nice. Take a hike, Mommy." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 ^ Sorry babe, it's either the inventory slot baby or 20 sling bullets. Dump the sprog. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjaamor Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. Whilst normally I find Josh to be extremely balanced and straightforward, I can't help but feel that tongue might have been just a little bit in cheek during that post. I sense a touch of "The only reason we're not doing it is because we don't have the resources to do it, and the resources we're lacking are people who want to do it". 10 Other kickstarter projects to which I have no affiliation but you may be interested: Serpent in the Staglands: A rtwp gothic isometric crpg in the style of Darklands The Mandate: Strategy rpg as a starship commander with focus on crew management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeOcelot Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 ...I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. Never stopped BioWare. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 @Kjaamor I don't think a romance written by someone who cringes at the idea of writing one would be all that much fun. Except in an ohgodmybrainpleaseno kind of way. 3 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Machine Miyagi Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Obsidian has always given me the impression of being very ambivalent about romances in their games. At best. MCA, for example, has been openly dismissive of them and while JE Sawyer isn't dismissive, as seen above, you can definitely detect a severe lack of enthusiasm at the idea. My stance has always been that romance can be pretty cool, if done well. I'm not among those who are openly celebrating this because I don't think romances necessarily have to be done as poorly as Bioware's 'follow the correct dialogue path and receive awkward video game sex!' approach. Done well, a romantic relationship would create exactly what I would like to see more of in my RPGs; deeper interaction between the main character and the world around him/her, as well as the ability to define your character more clearly through their choices. But for me, its definitely a 'do it well or not at all' thing, so if they have to choose between shoehorning a romance in because a segment of the player population demands it or dropping it completely, the latter is definitely better. Especially if writing romances makes the writers gag. How interesting an in-game romance could you have when the writers seem to have such a dismissive view of the whole thing? 3 Álrêrst lébe ich mir werde, sît mîn sündic ouge siht daz here lant und ouch die erde, der man sô vil êren giht. ez ist geschehen, des ich ie bat: ích bin komen an die stat, dâ got menischlîchen trat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnd Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Romances and deep dialogue between party was one of the main-features of baldurs-gate2 ... along with the tactical combat. Just think about the Drizzt-Storys of R.A. Salvator ... you should get some good plot writers.. I hope we also get attractive female party members ... otherwise i dont know ;-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadrone Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Suits me just fine. No cringingly out of character moments when some usually rough and tough guy now has to show his gentle side. No akward declarations of love just because you were nice to all your companions. No "-20 Points of influence" for turning down someones advances. No anemic amount of friendly banter with some companions because writing the content for their romance route took up all that extra time. Yeah, doesn't sound that bad at all... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. Whilst normally I find Josh to be extremely balanced and straightforward, I can't help but feel that tongue might have been just a little bit in cheek during that post. I sense a touch of "The only reason we're not doing it is because we don't have the resources to do it, and the resources we're lacking are people who want to do it". I think this is probably correct Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Who cares about NPC romances. What matters are the bothels with red plastic couches and special interest service. The game must have those. Docks districts ftw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Machine Miyagi Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Suits me just fine. No cringingly out of character moments when some usually rough and tough guy now has to show his gentle side. No akward declarations of love just because you were nice to all your companions. No "-20 Points of influence" for turning down someones advances. No anemic amount of friendly banter with some companions because writing the content for their romance route took up all that extra time. Bioware has basically taught the RPG world how to make 'romance' in-game as obnoxious as possible. Penalize those who aren't interested through shallower character interaction and lost influence with those you refuse to romance. Treat every friendly interaction with an NPC as if its a prelude to sex. Advertise the number of romanceable NPCs as if it were practically the reason for the game. I especially loved how, in Mass Effect 1, you could basically only evade a romance by either: 1) Being an absolute **** to your romanceable crew members. 2) Turning down the alien space babe and then sending the opposite sex romanceable crew member to die on Virmire. Bioware NPCs can be so insistent on getting into your pants that you have to murder them to get them to leave you alone. Edited February 11, 2014 by Death Machine Miyagi 10 Álrêrst lébe ich mir werde, sît mîn sündic ouge siht daz here lant und ouch die erde, der man sô vil êren giht. ez ist geschehen, des ich ie bat: ích bin komen an die stat, dâ got menischlîchen trat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Just think about the Drizzt-Storys of R.A. Salvator ... I'd rather not. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxilius Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 If I wanted to go meta, I would say it's the best news for the community. Not like I want to put some above others but god damn, once, erm, "other companies", realize big money was to be made in romances, they put all their caps in that and their reputation went waaaayyyyy down the drain. Just like their forum. sweat.jpg Sure, you might restrain yourself and just add it as another factor in a grand game but no matter the media, people tend to focus on that. Heck, as a (unsucessful) sci-fi writer in my country, people told me I should make romances to "captivate" a bigger crowd. But next day, you're known as the guy who make romances, not sci-fi, and you can't really do the stuff you like anymore. And thing is, my romances always end up terribly, because I'd rather burn the ship and the people in it that let it take over my story. Once it's started, it's something that just can't be avoided. Honestly, it's like a black hole. People have a black and white reading on this and once you start, that's all they care about, be it positive or negative. Check RPGCodex or SomethingAwful for example. Goddamn, are they in permanent rage mode over the issue. For no real good reason. That's why for me, the main reason to let the problem alone is to avoid these debates where nobody win and to not gamble uselessly the reputation of your company. Come to think of it, what's the obsession with love anyway? I take it romances in real life can be lackluster and having your freak on with the busty green alien and her strange mating rituals was always popular and cool but that was always campy and never to be taken seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drizzan Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 This is bad news and concerns me immensely. I am one of those that believes Romance adds to the realism and immersive aspect of your journey in an RPG. Especially around your interaction with party members. Also I don't understand why Obsidian wouldn't want to include something in PoE that the majority of fans want Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. I like romances in games, but when I think back some of my favourite games didnt have them at all (FO1, FO2, KOTOR2 VTMB), so this is totally fine if you guys want to spend more time on the things that you actually enjoy writing. Also, there is always the modding support later for the romances, so that problem will with time, solve itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. Whilst normally I find Josh to be extremely balanced and straightforward, I can't help but feel that tongue might have been just a little bit in cheek during that post. I sense a touch of "The only reason we're not doing it is because we don't have the resources to do it, and the resources we're lacking are people who want to do it". No, he states they're lacking the resources to implement them well. There's nothing tongue-in-cheek about it. "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxilius Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Forgot to say that this thread getting 7 pages in less than one day, with 40 readers around, on the normally slow Obsidian forum, is a testament to how polarizing yet captivating the issue is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Forgot to say that this thread getting 7 pages in less than one day, with 40 readers around, on the normally slow Obsidian forum, is a testament to how polarizing yet captivating the issue is.That, and this was actually 3 different threads that got merged to one. Personally though, I thought there was stuff in that Eurogamer interview that was more interesting, and more worthy of debate than the pronouncement of "No-Romances-Sorry". Edited February 11, 2014 by Stun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneiromancer Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Whilst normally I find Josh to be extremely balanced and straightforward, I can't help but feel that tongue might have been just a little bit in cheek during that post. I sense a touch of "The only reason we're not doing it is because we don't have the resources to do it, and the resources we're lacking are people who want to do it". Can you blame them? The average rpg romance is barely anything more than a choose-your-own-adventure pink novel where "winning" is about choosing the "right" options so you can have a completely meaningless romantic interaction. That's not even close to how real relationships work and a "good" romance would take a huge amount of effort just to try and simulate some kind of agency for a particular npc. You will never hear "Sorry I like you but I don't feel this is the right moment for me to have a relationship" "I'm not attracted to you" "I like working with you but let's leave it at that" "I don't like yes men/women sorry but talking to you it's like talking to an echo chamber" We can't have that because the player's feelings come before everything so we get horrible aberrations where every character is istantly attracted to you, has absolutely no sexual identity beside being "player-phile" and will fall in love with you as long as you push the "right" buttons. There was one particular interview with a Dragon Age 2 writer where she talked about some of the female party members like they were prostitutes from a brothel. Something like <<Yeah we have this sexually aggressive "let's do it right here" one or another with the virginal next door girl look...>> What the hell! I'm sorry for people who actually like it but I don't want that **** in my rpgs, it's worse than those forced romance sub-plots in hollywood movies. Bioware has basically taught the RPG world how to make 'romance' in-game as obnoxious as possible. Penalize those who aren't interested through shallower character interaction and lost influence with those you refuse to romance. Treat every friendly interaction with an NPC as if its a prelude to sex. Advertise the number of romanceable NPCs as if it were practically the reason for the game. I especially loved how, in Mass Effect 1, you could basically only evade a romance by either: 1) Being an absolute **** to your romanceable crew members. 2) Turning down the alien space babe and then sending the opposite sex romanceable crew member to die on Virmire. Bioware NPCs can be so insistent on getting into your pants that you have to murder them to get them to leave you alone. Man I still remember how weirded out I was when while trying to get to know Ashley a bit more she started to hit on my Shepard in a really awkward and plain way. I'm your superior what the hell are you doing soldier? I felt like a douche for brushing her off but jesus... Edited February 11, 2014 by Oneiromancer 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undecaf Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 This is great news. I like. 2 Perkele, tiädäksää tuanoini!"It's easier to tolerate idiots if you do not consider them as stupid people, but exceptionally gifted monkeys." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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