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Will there be any unique class quests? The idea is similar to Baldur's Gate 2 wherein the class would be assigned his own quest chain. The Cleric, for instance, would get a quest which would help their deity, the Chanter would have to make a song that would echo for eternity, etc.

 

I think it would be a great fit for this flavor of CRPG. 

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I hope so. I hope so because I hope to see many ways in which classes have different experiences in play, outside of combat.

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Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
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Yeah. It would be cool if you get a class benefit at the end, or something for the stronghold even. Like a permanent boost to your animal companion if you're a ranger, or an additional weapon spec. for a fighter. All that cool jazz.

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It is indeed an interesting concept.

 

If we were in a more "powerful" setting, I would also go for a class "upgrade" quest. Similar to Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2 quests that every character had. It might be something interesting for the expension though. Unlocking something new and unique for your character is always something fun when done through some quests.


« Celui qui est consumé par la flamme de la justice ne craint ni le ciel, ni l’enfer ; il n’est qu’une arme attendant le jour de sa mort ». (Paul Murphy, l'Enclave, 1971)

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I love class quests, I've always enjoyed them in just about every game that's had them. That said they do waste a lot of resources considering many people will not play through the game with every class. So then you're making content that some (most likely large) percentage of the player base will never see. So while I love them on a project with such a tight budget I'd rather see them making quests that every class can complete. If you're going to be excluded from a quest line I thin it should be because of choices you made once the game started not based on what you pick at the character creation screen.

For class, race, gender, flavor I think lots of reactive text where relevant in the world is good enough to add immersion and make you feel as if the game is reacting to your chosen character. Doing for quests for some priests as a goodly priest? Maybe dialogue should reflect that they feel like they can trust you with this sort of task since you're a fellow man/woman of faith. Same priest being sent out to stop a criminal? Maybe the marshal or what-have-you should express that he doesn't think a softhearted priest can handle this sort of thing and remain skeptical of your abilities. However maybe if you have a reputation for doing various evil murderous things their reactions would be swapped despite your choice in class. The Marshall could react to you by saying things along the lines of 'well you do have a reputation for this sort of dirty work' and the priests could be apprensive about trusting one who has sunk so low.

Regardless in the quick examples above you still get the quest regardless but you still get to feel like the game is taking your class into account somehow. Granted it still uses resources to do that sort of thing but I'd wager that writing up more reactive text is easier/less intensive than writing up entire class specific quest lines.

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In a way, yes, but this has also been done to death. I much prefer quests based on how you roleplay your character. Say, if you've done one bit of thieving too much that opens up a quest. Or perhaps you have gone too far on that last killing spree in some troll-infested hills, and now it's payback time.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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In a way, yes, but this has also been done to death. I much prefer quests based on how you roleplay your character. Say, if you've done one bit of thieving too much that opens up a quest. Or perhaps you have gone too far on that last killing spree in some troll-infested hills, and now it's payback time.

I concur with this but I still don't think Class Specific quests would hurt.  Obviously we all get a stronghold though so that won't be involved in this case.

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I'm with Pshaw, most (admittedly far methodologically flawed) statistics I have seen show that most people don't even finish long RPGs once. I can count on one hand the RPGs I have finished more than once, and on my horns the games I have finished more than twice. Flavor text is great, and so is the occasional comment  about your race/reputation/companions.

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I love class quests, I've always enjoyed them in just about every game that's had them. That said they do waste a lot of resources considering many people will not play through the game with every class. So then you're making content that some (most likely large) percentage of the player base will never see. So while I love them on a project with such a tight budget I'd rather see them making quests that every class can complete. If you're going to be excluded from a quest line I thin it should be because of choices you made once the game started not based on what you pick at the character creation screen.

 

Adding to this, class quests are cool, but I don't think quests should be based on class alone but also skills (or solely on skills).

 

Now I realize that classes get bonuses towards certain skills, but if I am able to, as a fighter, increase my stealth skills high enough so that I can match a rogue (a rogue perhaps focusing half on stealth and half on other skills), should I not be able to do the stealth quest lines? Obviously I will never be better than a rogue who has fully excelled at stealth, but I should be able to complete those quests, even at a significant disadvantage. I would like to see hybrid builds get this kind of attention in the game.

 

Obviously, this won't work in every case. As a fighter, I would never be able to do the Wizard quests... but damn it, would I try!  :w00t:

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I like the specific class/quest concept as in BG2, but I like even more the companion quests (also as in BG2) with different endings depending on your roleplay with them. Dialogues between companions were also funny

 

I really think it gives more depth to the game, or at least give a little combat break. I understand that it is also a lot of work though, and source of a lot of bugs (BG1 companion quests............ :banghead: )

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In a way, yes, but this has also been done to death. I much prefer quests based on how you roleplay your character. Say, if you've done one bit of thieving too much that opens up a quest. Or perhaps you have gone too far on that last killing spree in some troll-infested hills, and now it's payback time.

I concur with this but I still don't think Class Specific quests would hurt.  Obviously we all get a stronghold though so that won't be involved in this case.

 

 

I enjoyed the class stronghold quests of BG2 as much as anyone, but it does make more sense to merely create quests that all classes can satisfy. I think the room for compromise lies within awarding players/characters with how they have completed a quest. A wizard using magic to solve a problem, versus a rogue's wit, or a fighter's might should yield different rewards having these choices cause a quest to branch different.

 

This is a very simplistic example, but think of Dungeon Siege 2. There were many "secret" mini-dungeons that would contain a treasure room with locked doors. Only specific classes could unlock certain doors which held an item suitable to said class. Having a quest were a players path would diverge slightly to stumble upon a class appropriate treasure/reward would be an acceptable way to have the best of both in my mind.

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In a way, yes, but this has also been done to death. I much prefer quests based on how you roleplay your character. Say, if you've done one bit of thieving too much that opens up a quest. Or perhaps you have gone too far on that last killing spree in some troll-infested hills, and now it's payback time.

I concur with this but I still don't think Class Specific quests would hurt.  Obviously we all get a stronghold though so that won't be involved in this case.

 

 

I enjoyed the class stronghold quests of BG2 as much as anyone, but it does make more sense to merely create quests that all classes can satisfy. I think the room for compromise lies within awarding players/characters with how they have completed a quest. A wizard using magic to solve a problem, versus a rogue's wit, or a fighter's might should yield different rewards having these choices cause a quest to branch different.

 

This is a very simplistic example, but think of Dungeon Siege 2. There were many "secret" mini-dungeons that would contain a treasure room with locked doors. Only specific classes could unlock certain doors which held an item suitable to said class. Having a quest were a players path would diverge slightly to stumble upon a class appropriate treasure/reward would be an acceptable way to have the best of both in my mind.

 

I disagree. I remember an interview where (I believe) Chris Avellone said you have to be OK with people not seeing all the content you created. People are going to miss things, but that's what makes it interesting to replay a game. I think it's a terrible idea that I could experience every.single.quest.in one playthrough.

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Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
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By making certain decisions, making certain choices, you should have a different gaming experience. If everyone do the same quests and see the same content... What's the replay value of the game?

Edited by The Mist Devil
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« Celui qui est consumé par la flamme de la justice ne craint ni le ciel, ni l’enfer ; il n’est qu’une arme attendant le jour de sa mort ». (Paul Murphy, l'Enclave, 1971)

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I'm all for mutually exclusive content but IMO class is not a very interesting thing to connect it to. I prefer companions, faction affiliation, and character history.

 

Put another way, rather than a paladin stronghold quest, I'd like to see a holy order of warriors stronghold quest, open to anyone satisfying the quest requirements – e.g. high enough reputation with the holy order, suitable personality traits, and sufficient martial prowess. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a paladin.

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PrimeJunta: Indeed, and like the Mist Devil said: please don't make it so that each and every quest can be made in one playthrough.

I hated that about Skyrim, for instance.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I'm all for mutually exclusive content but IMO class is not a very interesting thing to connect it to. I prefer companions, faction affiliation, and character history.

 

Put another way, rather than a paladin stronghold quest, I'd like to see a holy order of warriors stronghold quest, open to anyone satisfying the quest requirements – e.g. high enough reputation with the holy order, suitable personality traits, and sufficient martial prowess. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a paladin.

That actually sounds good. It wouldn't be that much of a drain on the budget too (unless I'm wrong about that). 

 

 

I also realize that someone said earlier that not everyone will play everything. I agree to an extent; when I played through BG2 I never went Druid or Monk, so I never got to see their fortress/stronghold content. 

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you guys convinced me. While I still hope to see some differentiation between classes outside of combat, class quests are not the way to do it. You can have mutually exclusive paths based on many other factors.

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Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
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Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

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I'm all for mutually exclusive content but IMO class is not a very interesting thing to connect it to. I prefer companions, faction affiliation, and character history.

 

Put another way, rather than a paladin stronghold quest, I'd like to see a holy order of warriors stronghold quest, open to anyone satisfying the quest requirements – e.g. high enough reputation with the holy order, suitable personality traits, and sufficient martial prowess. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a paladin.

That actually sounds good. It wouldn't be that much of a drain on the budget too (unless I'm wrong about that). 

 

 

I also realize that someone said earlier that not everyone will play everything. I agree to an extent; when I played through BG2 I never went Druid or Monk, so I never got to see their fortress/stronghold content. 

 

Wait a second, while I have not done all the class strongholds either I can usually guess which ones are for which classes (such as the Grove in the wild areas outside Trademeet being for the Druid), yet I have no idea at all what would be the monk one!  I never even realised I didn't know this until now, and it's gotten me intrigued as a result.  Gonna have to look this up!


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As an aside, I always liked the RPG idea of belonging to another class giving you potential solution to quest problems. E.g. IWD2 in first map, you have to give someone your healing potion unless you're a cleric and then can heal them and keep the potion (although this is actually terrible use of the idea, because parties with dedicated healers have less need for healing potions, but whatever).

 

I think that sort of thing is great as long as there is a degree of imbalance between the classes in this regard, so, say a Druid provides more helpful options over the course of the game than, say, a wizard - who may be superior to the Druid in combat to provide overall balance.

 

Ymmv.

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I'm all for mutually exclusive content but IMO class is not a very interesting thing to connect it to. I prefer companions, faction affiliation, and character history.

 

But class is a part of character's history. An important part. It's not like they wake up one day and say "hey, I'm 1 lvl cipher". Well, they apparently do, judging by most of the games, but still.

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A dozen exclusive quests based on the PCs class, seems to me like the kind of thing you'd want when the devs swimming in time and money, after the core game is completed.

 

Higher on the priority list should be multiple way to finish quests with different actions to side with and reactive stuff like that. Also just having plenty quests in any single playthrough is very important.

If the game is big, fun and filled with choices I'll want to do multiple playthroughs in any case, but I might not want to play as a monk or a barbarian (for example).

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PrimeJunta: Indeed, and like the Mist Devil said: please don't make it so that each and every quest can be made in one playthrough.

I hated that about Skyrim, for instance.

I love the elder scrolls games myself but people need to remember there are different types of RPG's.  Skyrim is not about the lore, story, or even necessarily the world around you.  Skyrim is about simulation and becoming immersed in your character in that world.... it is literally a game about your character.  The goal is to get you involved in that role and get you active in the game world itself without limits so you can do and be anything you want because really the game is about you.  Any story beats you might see are just backdrops to encourage you to get involved they aren't really "the point" of the game.

 

Eternity is not about character simulation.  It is about the world, it's lore and history, and the overall story arc that is taking place and your characters place in that story.  In Eternity the game is not about you, it is about the story and how you progress through it.  Hence it makes a ton of sense to have gated content where if you choose X then it means you can't do Y.  It is more logical from a story perspective and it gives good reasons for a replay.  The trick for the devs is to make the choices compelling and not simply brain dead "this is clearly the better/more interesting path" decisions many games that go this route do wrong.  As long as you have solid fun gameplay and and the story/choices have real impact and weight people will come back for a second look most of the time.  Even if they don't it still leads to a better game upfront for a story driven RPG.

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While I agree that mere class-based quests probably aren't the way to go, that isn't to say you can't have class play a factor in some mutual exclusion. For example, maybe if you have a few factions that have some kind of exclusion/requirement that basically amounts to "You've got to be a Wizard, Chanter, Druid, Priest, or Cipher, or we won't accept you or let you get past a certain rank/trust level."

 

It doesn't have to be specific to each individual class, but there could be quests and/or quest solutions/branches, the availability of which are triggered by class. Maybe a Fighter can't do something, but several other classes COULD. *shrug*

 

This kind of coincides with my post in the "how will classes differentiate outside of combat?" thread regarding classes easily serving as widespread reputation modifiers and/or knowledge/ability skills. Put simply, you're a Monk? -5 to friendliness from George, whose brother went off to join some group of Monks and was twisted into some sort of weapon (personal trauma that just so happens to cause George to negatively view Monks and their distinct powers/ways), but other factors still allow George to like/trust you. And, as for knowledge/ability skills, maybe you find some artifact that's pulsatingly glowing, and its molding energies in the way that a Wizard does (because it was made by Wizards of old? *shrug*), so a Wizard gets unique interaction options with it, while a Fighter or Ranger would be incapable of doing much at all to it or knowing much about its workings.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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