I cannot accept EU ending for the Exile (and Revan)

[Darth Alpatrum]

I agree that TOR is a steaming pile of garbage and I honestly wish it had never happened. However there is still hope for a KOTOR3 first off the re-release of KOTOR 1 on the ipad outdid any of the projected sales figures. Not only by a little bit but it honestly surprised everyone involved that the game is still that popular. Secondly in November EA started ramping for another open world star wars game with Visceral Studios which means we very much could get a KOTOR 3 we  can afterall hope. However if EA and Disney were smart they would bring the KOTOR 3 team in from Obsidian and finish production on what they already started which could very much be possible seeing that they are only looking for animators according to the article I read on theforce.net, which would make sense seeing that the story line is basically already in place. As far as what I would like to see in a KOTOR 3 game? I would like to see Revan and the Exile team up together with one or two other companions. Not  a ship full to start but more like Revan and Exile take on the world. Then near the end when everything gets wrapped in you could bring in Canderous, Bastilla, Carth and Mission Vao along with Zalaabar for the light side end of things. If you go darkside you could bring in Canderous, HK 47, Atton and Bao Dur or two new characters who we havent met yet. But the final half of the game would have to be Revan and The Exile split up. I think though it should be users choice at the beginning of the game as to who you play. You could start as Revan or as the Exile which in effect gives you roughly four different endings to the game  with either a female or a male character with each character, so in eventuality you would have eight different scenerios to play through with different plot twists and such depending on who you played and whether you played male or female. Needless to say though the final battle would be nothing short of epic. Now if whoever made the game really wanted to make money and drive profit through the roof sell all three games in a bundle set for like 60 or seventy dollars us. The advantages would be the ability to play all three games through seamlessly with a descent cutscene between each game tieing them all in plus remove the level cap in KOTOR 1 so when you picked up with Revan (which in this case characters sex would be deteremined by what you chose in KOTOR at the start) you would pick up right where you left off level wise. To decide in this instance which character you played you could have a little conversation at the beginning that unlocks which character you are playing as. Now once the game is defeated you can pick up in whichever game you wanted and start from the beginning of either one two or three. But then again I am a massive geek and could think of no way better to spend almost a year of my life. 

 

 The second thing I wanted to say was that the reason the KOTOR games are so much like dnd and the reason we love them so much is very simple. The game mechanics and such are almost word for word right out of the star wars revised core rule book which is a D20 system.

[Starbeast]

I remember your thread from BSN. Don't think I participated there. Can't really speak very much against TOR because I never played it. I have heard the game has some excellent parts & terrible misses, but MMO's just arn't my thing. But I was disappointed by fate of Revan & the Exile. I was also disappointed by the Empire's look & structure, it lost the unique look that the original KotOR games had, which is a shame because those designs were great on their own & you even see those designs & color schemes have inspired other sci-fi now like Stargate Universe. One thing that seems missing in TOR as far as I've seen on youtube & read on wiki is the lack of distrust for Jedi. Like how people blame Jedi for war & can't distinguish them from Sith.

 

I still want KotOR 3 as well. Bioware & Obsidian really made something great there, becuase I still find myself imagining where the story was going. Despite some of the things in TOR. KotOR 3 was being made at one point afterall, how close to completion it came is uncertain, but I hope the story of it's development & cancellation will be told some day. What concept art & story ideas that have leaked their way out have been brief but very interesting. I'd buy the book or watch a podcast with someone describing it.

[DarthDeven]

I remember your thread from BSN. Don't think I participated there. Can't really speak very much against TOR because I never played it. I have heard the game has some excellent parts & terrible misses, but MMO's just arn't my thing. But I was disappointed by fate of Revan & the Exile. I was also disappointed by the Empire's look & structure, it lost the unique look that the original KotOR games had, which is a shame because those designs were great on their own & you even see those designs & color schemes have inspired other sci-fi now like Stargate Universe. One thing that seems missing in TOR as far as I've seen on youtube & read on wiki is the lack of distrust for Jedi. Like how people blame Jedi for war & can't distinguish them from Sith.

 

I still want KotOR 3 as well. Bioware & Obsidian really made something great there, becuase I still find myself imagining where the story was going. Despite some of the things in TOR. KotOR 3 was being made at one point afterall, how close to completion it came is uncertain, but I hope the story of it's development & cancellation will be told some day. What concept art & story ideas that have leaked their way out have been brief but very interesting. I'd buy the book or watch a podcast with someone describing it.

Kotor 3's leaks about itself was like ready to start development,much of the planets,quests,characters ideas were complete,like a jedi called 'Naresha',a unnamed Sith Lord and somebody who i think that was Old Carth Onasi concept art (look in internet).but LA 'screw it,i only want money' and TORtanic failed what their greed wanted.

Chris Avellone said that was cancelled because 'business is business' Aka LA wanted to do much money as possible and cancelled it.and he had to deal with it.

The main idea was to resume from the same character of Kotor 2,the exile,with the same ship the Ebon Hawk as a mobile base searching for Revan,T3 and HK as 100% full time Party Members,and many of the old Kotor characters would have comed back,a Sith Lord that used the force to hold himself telekinectically.a level with HK in a backpack without legs like C3-PO shooting from your back and shouting insults.

and of course the showdown with the ancient sith empire,the true ancient sith empire,used terrible force tecniques worser than nihlus,not the Palps empire copy of TOR,and of course finding your revan evil/good greater good/evil

it may resemble ME3?because it was going to be like that(in a matter of the story war)at least a successful version of it.

[TheChris92]

While it is alluded to that the figure in the Sith Warrior story is Kreia it still isn't confirmed. So I'm gonna do my best to ignore it. Because it's bad enough what Drew Karpyshyn did to the Exile & BioWare did with Revan in TOR -- But this..

[Wolfenbarg]

Star Wars is almost immune to good storytelling. The basis for its creation seems like such an easy task (just redo the monomyth and swim in teh monies!) and gets ****ed up beyond belief almost every time. What we experienced was the exception. Bioware made the first game and even they obviously don't give a crap about the story, the lore, or the license that they created. Did the people in the planning phase for writing and lore get forced into it or something? Contrasting the craft of the game designers with the writers is kind of painful to see.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Wolfenbarg

[Ado13]

Or you can do it like me and consider this mod for KOTOR 2 as the real KOTOR 3 http://www.moddb.com/mods/revenge-of-revan

[CoM_Solaufein]

There's no ToR or Revan book in my EU. Still waiting for Kotor 3 to put things right otherwise everything came to an end at Kotor2.

[Qistina]

There's no ToR or Revan book in my EU. Still waiting for Kotor 3 to put things right otherwise everything came to an end at Kotor2.

 

KotoR 2 cannot be the end, TOR is not an ending for KotOR either, so there must be KotOR 3

 

 

I remember your thread from BSN. Don't think I participated there. Can't really speak very much against TOR because I never played it. I have heard the game has some excellent parts & terrible misses, but MMO's just arn't my thing. But I was disappointed by fate of Revan & the Exile. I was also disappointed by the Empire's look & structure, it lost the unique look that the original KotOR games had, which is a shame because those designs were great on their own & you even see those designs & color schemes have inspired other sci-fi now like Stargate Universe. One thing that seems missing in TOR as far as I've seen on youtube & read on wiki is the lack of distrust for Jedi. Like how people blame Jedi for war & can't distinguish them from Sith.

 

I still want KotOR 3 as well. Bioware & Obsidian really made something great there, becuase I still find myself imagining where the story was going. Despite some of the things in TOR. KotOR 3 was being made at one point afterall, how close to completion it came is uncertain, but I hope the story of it's development & cancellation will be told some day. What concept art & story ideas that have leaked their way out have been brief but very interesting. I'd buy the book or watch a podcast with someone describing it.

 

I no longer BSN member, and i fed up with Bioware, not interested in that company anymore

 

I intereted on your mention about KotOR 2 Jedi, I can see that DA "steal" many concept of KotOR 2 have established, they only change it into Mage vs Templar war. Mages are "KotOR 2 Jedis" in DA world, Mages who set the world upside down, but yet peoples need Mages when they are in trouble.The Warden is "Revan" and Hawke is "Exile". So it is not original.

 

i just hope that Obsidian can take part on straighten things out, making KotOR 3, and conclude it.

[keyannmoraff]

im throwing myself to the lions, but i love TOR.

yes, the JK story was enough to ruin  A LOT from the kotor lore, and i find it very silly to make him fight the emperor so quickly... but i couldnt expect less than that, cause someone had to do it..

and they had to put Revan somewhere in the plot, so..

i only hope that since he became one with the force in the end, he will return as a badass boss later on (as being almost 3 years since its release so far)

 

eh, the JK doesnt really kill the emperor, just one of his bodies, and the emperor of TOR era wasn't really strong, he was strong as a guardian using shock with 10 INT on hard mode... he was damn smart, and knew HOW to do stuff.. but he wasn't strong enough to do it by himself, thats why he captured revan and used him to foresee and other dirty stuffs (his strenght was controlling others, thats how he did it)

 

about the death of exile? not punny enough

backstabbed with a backstab

and with his precognition, i guess he never saw it coming!

[Hassat Hunter]

Guess forgot to save the game after precognition

 

*wry laugh, then sighs again about TOR and it's threatment of the KOTORs*

[keyannmoraff]

well, in very TOR there isnt much from kotor, but a increase in the bounty hunters, mandalorians are few and not warmonger like canderous (i think they learned their lesson), at some points someone mentions a baodur tech prize, pretty much nothing else

they only added revan to make money out of it

and theres the mention of Kreia.. i thought it was cool

 

what happened in the books didnt really made thru, SOOOO yes, kotor3 can happen peacefully, we only must make a petiton

and if we get it, i really hope they add Lord Scourge, he is cool, he is pure blood,

[DarthDeven]

well, in very TOR there isnt much from kotor, but a increase in the bounty hunters, mandalorians are few and not warmonger like canderous (i think they learned their lesson), at some points someone mentions a baodur tech prize, pretty much nothing else

they only added revan to make money out of it

and theres the mention of Kreia.. i thought it was cool

 

what happened in the books didnt really made thru, SOOOO yes, kotor3 can happen peacefully, we only must make a petiton

and if we get it, i really hope they add Lord Scourge, he is cool, he is pure blood,

actually,a petition for Kotor 3 is already present,but it has stopped collecting people from like 3-4 years.a kickstart has to happen,but unfortunately,EA has the full rights to SW games production given by Disney,so unless it's an unofficial project,nobody can't make the game,unless you pay the rights to EA and Disney.

Actually i hope that Scourge dies painfully in a fire like everyone thinking that making SW TOR was a good idea over Kotor 3

kreia is just a rumor,but it doesn't pay justice to the original character,like the others from Kotor 1 & 2.

all they did for the 10th anniversary of Kotor was a blog post and spam Kotor Characters' clothing in the cash shop,that's it,no special event or hd remake

 

 

 

There's no ToR or Revan book in my EU. Still waiting for Kotor 3 to put things right otherwise everything came to an end at Kotor2.

 

KotoR 2 cannot be the end, TOR is not an ending for KotOR either, so there must be KotOR 3

 

 

I remember your thread from BSN. Don't think I participated there. Can't really speak very much against TOR because I never played it. I have heard the game has some excellent parts & terrible misses, but MMO's just arn't my thing. But I was disappointed by fate of Revan & the Exile. I was also disappointed by the Empire's look & structure, it lost the unique look that the original KotOR games had, which is a shame because those designs were great on their own & you even see those designs & color schemes have inspired other sci-fi now like Stargate Universe. One thing that seems missing in TOR as far as I've seen on youtube & read on wiki is the lack of distrust for Jedi. Like how people blame Jedi for war & can't distinguish them from Sith.

 

I still want KotOR 3 as well. Bioware & Obsidian really made something great there, becuase I still find myself imagining where the story was going. Despite some of the things in TOR. KotOR 3 was being made at one point afterall, how close to completion it came is uncertain, but I hope the story of it's development & cancellation will be told some day. What concept art & story ideas that have leaked their way out have been brief but very interesting. I'd buy the book or watch a podcast with someone describing it.

 

I no longer BSN member, and i fed up with Bioware, not interested in that company anymore

 

I intereted on your mention about KotOR 2 Jedi, I can see that DA "steal" many concept of KotOR 2 have established, they only change it into Mage vs Templar war. Mages are "KotOR 2 Jedis" in DA world, Mages who set the world upside down, but yet peoples need Mages when they are in trouble.The Warden is "Revan" and Hawke is "Exile". So it is not original.

 

i just hope that Obsidian can take part on straighten things out, making KotOR 3, and conclude it.

 

 Actually Bioware fills up with the stereotypical story,they're doing that for nearly 10 years

 

Ancient Evil wants to conquer\destroy the galaxy (Reapers in ME,Darkspawn in Dragon Age,Sith in Kotor 1)

Player is a common guy who was doing his business when his home\location is attacked

player is selected to be part of an elite group of sort (IN Mass Effect :Spectres,in Kotor Jedis,In Dragon Age the Grey Wardens)

Player is the chosen one and the only one that can defeat ancient evil

The land or Galaxy must be united against the ancient evil

player is given 2 paths evil and good,sometimes is just railroded on the 'good' path (ME3 the endings are just written as 'bad and good')

player has a set of followers

Canon Ending outcomes are always 'good'

Ancient Evil is only evil and cannot be reasoned with

 

this how bioware writes characters and story,and how they going to write DA:I and ME4 (or how the hell is going to be called)

 

the point is that they want to follow these stereotypes if someone is going to change something in their story,they're going to change it back to fit into their stereotypes,that's what happened from Kotor 2 to TOR

KOTOR 2 is how the star wars storytelling should be like,with sense and logic,and give more points to the fights instead of just

 

EVIL VS GOOD

villian wants to conquer the world

hero comes to stop him

battle

villian is winning

hero unrealistically pulls out weakness and stops the villian or 

villian has won,unrealistically make that the hero survived even though he was killed

comeback to point 3

this is the storytelling today

rinse and repeat,same battles beetween evil and good,there's no point like i killed that guy that was causing trouble and causing a powerful organization to split up

Edited June 7, 2014 by DarthDeven

[keyannmoraff]

dude, you should totally post this tablechart in the other topic where someone blindly complains about dragon age being a ripoff

but we must agree, all games are good..

[DarthDeven]

dude, you should totally post this tablechart in the other topic where someone blindly complains about dragon age being a ripoff

but we must agree, all games are good..

i don't claim that DA is a rip off,i'm just saying that bioware is basically following the same model from which it crafts all of its games,so technically all should be classified as rip-offs but i think they shouldn't,they are different in some way,but they follow pratically the stereotypes.

yeah i played BG,Kotor,DA,ME,and i found these games wonderful,until their ****-ups,ME3,DA2,SWTOR,Baldur's Gate is the only one that was spared from the horrible fate,but it's still not safe

i don't want these games to fail anymore,but let's face it,until EA is around nothing 100 % pure quality is coming out,and Bioware was immersed back in 2007 into the corruption of EA that in 2012-2014 it's impossible to distinguish them from EA,like it's written on their website,they're just a subordinary,a part of EA,the games they show on their website seem they didn't care about them,even though they're the games that made them what they are today,they don't show Baldur's Gate,Kotor,NW,Jade empire and the first Mass Effect.but they show DA:O,ME2,DA2,ME3,stupid ungrateful morons.

before 'Bioware Corp' now 'Bioware,a subordinate of EA' 

i don't want to turn this thread into EA hatred,so i'll return On topic

the point here we are saying that's unacceptable the fate of the exile and revan,but like i've said before,they're too lazy to rewrite the story un-canon it,and Kotor 3 is impossible since EA has full license on making SW games.

if i was in charge i would have immediately immunized RPG games from canon,and that no matter,the story would have moved on anyway,like 'it could have happened,but it's not sure what really happened,but 10 years after x\z has happened. y has happened ' like Obsidian did with the beginning of Kotor 2,you could choose Revan's fate,and was interesting that they gave a reasonable explanation in both cases why revan wasn't there,like in Dark Side,revan fearing that the threat could have threatened his own power,he departured to face the threat,leaving his sith empire in chaos and the star forge went dormant,since no powerful enough dark side user was there to satisfy its hunger for the dark side energy,and leaved the galaxy much weaker,and was a good explanation why the galaxy was in the dark age like in the light side ending.

Lechan or whatever he's called canonized many things that even didn't made any sense and didn't even played the two games and probably has read the story on wookiepedia,even though the story was nice as it was, leaving Revan's character misterious,and it showed an alternate story but could have been true as well,but **** no,let's canonize that everyone is good,and the evil guys are evil just for the sake of evil.

if you manage to ask a petition to disney to uncanonize revan book,and tor,then we could have Kotor 3,and i don't think EA would care about that,since it has already its paying customers for the abomination that's TOR

then we could have a story having revan on its epic search on the sith,and hell even using obsidian's writing as story,and the showdown with the true ancient sith.

Edited June 8, 2014 by DarthDeven

[Qistina]

For me, Revan and Exile in TOR cannot be a canon because of the title of the game. You see, KotOR and KotOR 2 :TSL share the same title that is "SW : KotOR", Star Wars : Knights of the Old Republic. TOR is not KotOR just by the title itself, it is a different game and different universe, Revan and Exile are just added in. Similar with the novel, it is not under the same title

 

So, i think if want to fight about what is the canon Revan and Exile, fight the title

 

Example, if i create a game, i call it "Galaxy Heroes", then there's a continuation "Galaxy Heroes 2 : Big Bang", soon after there's an MMO using the title "Heroes of the Galaxy" and put in some characters from "Galaxy Heroes", it is a separate series isn't it? Separate title. The characters in "Heroes of the Galaxy" cannot be a canon of "Galaxy Heroes"

 

Christopher Reeve Superman is not the same Superman with Man of Steel, it is a diffetent title

 

Edit : And so many other like Spiderman, Bat Man, X-Men...there are many version of the original, none can be canon of the original. Does Bat Man really learn Ninjutsu? Does Spiderman really firing web from his hands or using some gadget? Why must Star Wars stick to a "canon", why must KotOR stick to a "canon"?

Edited June 10, 2014 by Qistina

[keyannmoraff]

making a kotor3 would change almost nothing of TOR, because there's almost no relation.. they only have to maintain that revan hooked up with bastilla and had Satele..

probably the TOR universe is so distant from kotor so they still have a breach in time for the third release

 

but IF bioware ever did an update of TOR where they return to the story of revan and exile,but i mean something written out of their hearts, not for their pockets, would you guys ever like it?

[Qistina]

making a kotor3 would change almost nothing of TOR, because there's almost no relation.. they only have to maintain that revan hooked up with bastilla and had Satele..

probably the TOR universe is so distant from kotor so they still have a breach in time for the third release

 

but IF bioware ever did an update of TOR where they return to the story of revan and exile,but i mean something written out of their hearts, not for their pockets, would you guys ever like it?

 

Nothing to maintain i think because there should be no canon, if they wnt to set a canon for KotOR such as Revan is a male and in love with Bastila, better just remove character creation choices, remove gender and class choices for all Star Wars games, like The Force Unleash

 

TOR is just another Star Wars universe, i can consider Revan and Exile in TOR are just "ester eggs", Revan and Exile in TOR is just a version of them in Star Wars TOR universe, if you get what i mean

 

Bioware have changed much, changing policy, changing theme, changing staff and writers, if they make KotOR 3 i believe it will be like DA2 or Mass Effect, i don't want. Better Obsidian make it and maintain the "KotOR" feeling...

Edited June 11, 2014 by Qistina

[Nilus]

Am I the only one that asked the following questions about the revan book?

 

What happened to Carth?

Why did Revan not bring HK?

Why did the exile make no mention of her party members?

Why in the name of good literature, DID THEY REFER TO KRIEA AND HER BUNCH ALMOST AS A FOOTNOTE?!

[Qistina]

Actually, i don't want a solid conclusion, better leave it with varriants, i mean like what happen to Carth have many version according to the player choice in the first game. There should not be a novel explain only one version of the story like what happen now. It is a disappointment

 

Revan and Exile should remain both a man or a woman, both light or dark, and so on

 

Just uncanon the book and TOR because there should be no canon for a GAME that have MANY CHOICES

[Amentep]

Isn't it all kind of moot since the EU as a whole has been declared non-cannon by the new STAR WARS heads?

[Qistina]

i made this thread before it declared uncanon as i remember

[DarthDeven]

that makes things problematic,if the whole EU is non-canon it means,no Darth Revan,Darth Malak,Nihilus,Bane,Sion are existant,and all SW Games are pratically as they were never published,it may be a double edged sword.

[SummerDay]

Am I the only one that asked the following questions about the revan book?

 

What happened to Carth?

Why did Revan not bring HK?

Why did the exile make no mention of her party members?

Why in the name of good literature, DID THEY REFER TO KRIEA AND HER BUNCH ALMOST AS A FOOTNOTE?!

Well, I know I never asked those questions, because stayed as far away from that book as I could.

[DarthDeven]

Am I the only one that asked the following questions about the revan book?

 

What happened to Carth?

Why did Revan not bring HK?

Why did the exile make no mention of her party members?

Why in the name of good literature, DID THEY REFER TO KRIEA AND HER BUNCH ALMOST AS A FOOTNOTE?!

1)Carth is mentioned in the stupid holostory of TOR by Gnost Dural,but it's said there that he dies eventually

2)the official explanation is that Bastila leaved HK on Corusant to make him less 'aggressive' ,but it's not mentioned how he happened to be in the cargo of the Ebon Hawk and how he got damaged and scattered across the galaxy

the only remote explanation of the Ebon Hawk is found in the 'Revan-is-now-stupid' novel,the ship gets ambushed when Revan went to a planet near the 'emperor' by Scourge and a member of the 'Dark Council but T3 managed to leave,but again there's no explanation on what happened after or how it got against sion.

short explanation,the writer was lazy and\or didn't care.

3)pratically because Bioware dislikes Kotor 2 as it's much different than their stereotypes,so they cut them,no single mention of Visas,Atton,Disciple,GOTO,Bao-dur,Mira,Hanrarr,Brianna.the only mention of nihilus is on a mission of the Smuggler storyline where it pops up a holocron made by nihilus

4)same reason as above

Link to video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOFPsyjzVLc

apparently who wrote TOR didn't actually payed attention to Kotor 2 at all,as Kreia and Visas tell that Nihilus didn't give a s*it about nobody and nothing but his hunger and power,he didn't care to transmit his knownledge to others,Visas got only a small basic training just because was her apprentice.

and what's worst,they made Nihilus Mask and costume available as a 'special' offer in the IGP market,oh wait they've got even revan's

mask,revan's robes,HK-51(to add insult to injury),Malak's Headgear and robes   

take a look while i vomit

Please,god,have mercy  

Canderous is rolling in his grave   

poor bastila 

there's even some of calo nord's clothing,sith troopers(Revan's sith empire),but it's too painful for me

to know more google 'Swtor Kotor gear' 

sorry if i went OP but i needed to show you guys how bad things were

Edited July 11, 2014 by DarthDeven

[Qistina]

Yes i agree that the writer don't care at all about KotOR 2 as if he despise Obsidian work, he only focus on some KotOR characters, and link it with KotOR 2 via "Meetra Surik" the Exile...even that name never appear in any generated names in chargen

 

I think he never played KotOR 2 at all, this "Meetra Surik" is a new character of his own creation, nothing like the Exile