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Why do people port games over to consoles or start their games on consoles to begin with? To reach the larger audience, of course. The thing with Eternity is that the larger audience is already on PC. I mean thanks to Steam and GOG, older games and games with lower specs made specifically for the PC have returned PC gaming to a rather glorious pool of money to swim in. Eternity can fit right in with that crowd, but it'll barely move units on a console. They couldn't possibly justify the expense.

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Others have mentioned it this thread already but i'll just echo it. Pillars of eternity is a type of game that you should play with a keyboard and mouse. It wouldn't work well with a controller. The same goes for games within the RTS genre for example. 

 

There are others issues as well but i don't feel like i need to go beyond the controller issue as a reason why not to make a console-version.

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The system is powerful , it's easy to port games annd it supports mouse and keyboard use natively .

 

it's not only about the controls. you've to redo the entire ui to support couch-tv distance. the bigger the font the longer you've to scroll through tons and tons of text. the same with all the small icons and buttons to click. it simply ain't comfortable to play a crpg while sitting miles away from the screen, no matter how relaxing your position would be.

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Bemused that its not been considered that is all. I think Obsidian is missing a chance here. Considering uniformity of console platforms and penetration of their user base.

 

Since the developers said they were only developing PE for the computer...well I'd say they did consider it and rejected the idea.

 

That doesn't mean that, if PE is a computer success they won't go back and try to find a way to expand out to other user-bases, but it doesn't seem to me that - based on their statements - they have any interest in doing it right now and with the money from the Kickstarter.

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@skeet, IMO The Elder Scrolls are a good demonstration of how console gamers ruin games. Morrowind was still pretty good really, but the series went down the drain with Oblivion. Surprise surprise, Oblivion was the first one of the series designed from the start to be portable to consoles. They made it that way because the console port of Morrowind was surprisingly successful.

 

I don't like consoles either. I don't like the locked-down hardware and walled-garden approach. I don't like the control schemes. I don't like the marketing. And almost all console-first games are a royal turn-off.

 

Finally, even if you can plug a mouse and keyboard into a PS4, does anyone seriously think that a PS4 game that requires them would not be dead in the water? Especially since PoE will have relatively modest system requirements, meaning it ought to play perfectly well on low-end PC hardware. How many console owners do you reckon don't have a low-end PC or Mac?

 

TL;DR: No. No, no no no. No.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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SteamOS is going to be downloadable Friday when they send out the beta units...

 

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements/detail/1930088300965516570

 

So, since Pillars of Eternity will support linux, and Steam Machines/SteamOS are linux compatible platforms for TVs, and the controller should solve the control scheme issues for the most part... You may get your wish in a roundabout way. You might just not have it available for PS4 particularly. I think the only caveat would be reading the text at a great distance, but it is what it is.

 

Otherwise, I agree with many here. This is a PC game funded by PC gamers, and although I want everyone to enjoy the game... I don't know many people that don't have a cheap PC lying around to play this, and many people I know have a laptop that can plug into the Tv if living room gaming is their preference.

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- Regarding the control scheme: it is right, that the PS4 supports K+M. But it is unrealistic to expect, that there will be a KM-only game on consoles. There is no market for that and I would guess, that it is mandatory for every console game to support the gamepad.

So basically the whole idea of a console version of PoE stands and falls with the possibility to control the game in a not too dumbed down way with the controller. I can´t say if that is possible or not, as I don´t know the control scheme well enough.

All I can say is, that I was positively surprised how Blizzard handled it with Diablo 3 (but obviously that´s a different genre, so I don´t know if you could translate that to PoE).

You are correct in that it stands and falls with that possibility and, as it happens, it falls and it falls hard. Diablo is a completely different kind of game.

 

Look, it's not nice that some people here are being rather rude to you newcomers... but you have to understand where they are coming from. This idea has been discussed over and over and over again from practically the beginning of the kickstarter and one can only beat a dead horse for so long before becoming impatient. In fact, I'm going to be lazy and just copy and paste my old argument:

 

The console control interface can't handle this kind of game. Consoles lack fast and precise point-and-click functionality and they have fewer hot key possibilities. Think about it this way: Baldur's Gate 2 has 6 party members each of which has on the order of 10 (it's more, but let's keep it simple) actions which can be accessed almost instantaneously via either a button to click on or a keyboard shortcut. This makes for around 60 things that a PC player can do in approximately 1 second after having decided to do it.

 

How would you do the same thing on a console? First, we must select the character. I suppose you could use one of the sticks as a pointing device and a button to click, but I suspect this would be extremely awkward because I have not seen it implemented in any game I have played. Instead, the most common mechanism tends to be to cycle through the player characters. Having done that, we need to select the action. Again, I have not seen an RPG that offers of order 10 hotkeys which means you must typically go through a menu. Menu access is slower than on the PC because instead of point-and-click, it involves traversing an ordered list. Thus, an action that took of order 1 second on the PC takes of order 10 seconds on the console. And this is something that a player will be doing very, very often.

 

Here is another example: imagine positioning multiple characters on the PC. Click on a character, click where the character goes, repeat. Again, it's something that takes of order 1 second per character so 1-6 seconds total. On consoles, it does not appear to be done at all (at least not in any game I have played on an XBox) because now you really must use the sticks as precision pointing devices and this is not pleasant.

 

If you don't believe me, here is the same idea from Chris Avellone, one of the more famous developers at Obsidian:

 

And it'll be PC only, because Avellone is "tired of designing content and interactions that caters to consoles and console controllers."

 

"Those limitations affect RPG mechanics and content more than players may realize (especially for players who've never played a PC RPG and realize what's been lost over the years), and often doesn't add to the RPG experience," he told me.

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Since a Linux version is on the list, possibly PoE could be adapted to run on a Steam Box. it might take some experimentation with their controller though to figure out a decent way to play it.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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@skeet, IMO The Elder Scrolls are a good demonstration of how console gamers ruin games. Morrowind was still pretty good really, but the series went down the drain with Oblivion. Surprise surprise, Oblivion was the first one of the series designed from the start to be portable to consoles. They made it that way because the console port of Morrowind was surprisingly successful.

 

I don't like consoles either. I don't like the locked-down hardware and walled-garden approach. I don't like the control schemes. I don't like the marketing. And almost all console-first games are a royal turn-off.

 

Finally, even if you can plug a mouse and keyboard into a PS4, does anyone seriously think that a PS4 game that requires them would not be dead in the water? Especially since PoE will have relatively modest system requirements, meaning it ought to play perfectly well on low-end PC hardware. How many console owners do you reckon don't have a low-end PC or Mac?

 

TL;DR: No. No, no no no. No.

 

Your personal opinion is that the series went downhill with Oblivion, but that is not at all a dominant view. A game series whose design changes over time while including consoles does not mean all change can attributed to consoles. That's really just the natural evolution of a series. The implication that you are making that the inclusion of consoles ruins games is not backed up by anything, the fact that Skyrim is widely regarded as being the best of the series so far (no matter the platform), and that it's remained for months now one of the top 10 games played on Steam counter your argument that it was ruined for PC gamers.

 

Why does everyone feel the need to be exclusive? I love PE, and I would like for as many gamers who want to enjoy it to be able to. Why do you feel like it will somehow detract from your experience to simply know that someone else is also enjoying it from their couch? Regardless of if you dislike consoles, it's your personal choice not to own one, and a post-release port won't affect your PC enjoyment of the game in ANY way. It may even increase it because you'll be sharing the experience with more people.

 

TL;DR: Realize people are different. Get over your need to deny others experiences you enjoy.

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I just think especially nowadays when everything changed and advanced so much it just requires a little bit of thinking outside the box. Less pigeon holeing people or specific type of games and more of a : lets do it , make it work and see what happens. 

It might be even interesting idea to bring the game back to Kickstarter just to to see if people would pay for a console port. also the way these big companies like Sony are courting now small devs etc , who knows maybe if someone would pitch the idea to them they would pay for it....there are many possibilites now. 

I just think that segregating things is not very good. I think now especially when new systems have power and connectivity neccessry to be on on par to open pc platfrom its an excellent opportunity to expand and bring something new to people who maybe 6 or 7 yeara ago would not even think aboutn it twice.

Many of mu friends just like me have wives and families now and are into gaming still but they dont want to buy into PCs anymore. That is past them. They prefer console stramlined experience. Cnsidering that average age of gamer in USA for example is 34 or 35 we can assume that these people would dive into a game that reminds them of games of yesteryear which they used to play in the past. 

Just my thoughts.

 

Outside the box at this point, is funding a PC only, keyboard and mouse driven RPG.

 

Consoles are very much inside the box.

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Last console I had was NES (and not even oryginal one, search for Pegasus if intrigued) and after that there were times when I felt bad for missing some console exclusives. Despite it I remained pure bred computer gamer (because before PC I had Amiga) for all those years. And yet, despite my background, guess who's in my avatar? Yup, a follower (or enemy, your pick) from a console game that my younger brother asked me to play for him, in some kind genius-level-hunch that I could like it (despite the fact I never played even a single game on his PSX before).

So, what I want to say is, that I wouldn't mind seeing PE on any console if only for the sake of people who choose their couch over pc gaming years ago, but deep inside still have that nostalgia about IE games. And for those who were never able to try out this kind of games, because they were/are exclusives for PC.

Call it empathy ;)

 

Still with my limited imagination I can't (just like others) see how would they "translate" managing party of 6 in PE without making it tedious for a gamepad users. Not to mention other mouse and keyboard acrobatics.

On the other hand I can -given some exercise- imagine a hypothetical company interested in handling the porting of PE (and cashing in). Especially if what some of you said about technical ease of doing so is true (dunno).

And about textwalls? I suppose there is a niche for that in console's world, outside of visual novels...?

 

 

Whatever, stranger things happened since I killed Sarevok for the first time, so who knows.

Who knows indeed.

Edited by milczyciel

"There are no good reasons. Only legal ones." - Ross Scott

 It's not that I'm lazy. I just don't care.

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Well unlike most people on this site I won't troll you for posting something that makes a couple decent points.  That said....

 

Obsidian has already stated they don't intend for any console releases.  Like the games Eternity is "inspired" by it will be released only on Computers.  Second even though PS4 does support keyboard and mouse most people don't have a set up conducive for that near their PS4 and need those usb ports to charge controllers etc.  Lastly this type of game honestly is just not aimed at a console market and would play terribly on a controller, it is asking a bit much of Obsidian to get a controller UI working as a result.  I mention controller UI because even though you could use a keyboard and mouse on PS4 the thing is most PS4 owners again won't have that option for one reason or another and it assumes peripherals the average PS4 owner simply doesn't have for their PS4.

 

All that said I am sure the PS4 is more than capable of running it no problem.  Most of the PC letist's in this forum probably don't even have a PC noticeably stronger than a PS4.  Some of them may have a PC that is quite weaker actually.  I was recently playing Assassin's Creed 4 on mine and I have to say PS4 looks just as good as the PC version does.

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Well unlike most people on this site I won't troll you for posting something that makes a couple decent points.  

 

Why thank you. I was trying ;)

 

 

[...] even though PS4 does support keyboard and mouse most people don't have a set up conducive for that near their PS4 and need those usb ports to charge controllers etc.  Lastly this type of game honestly is just not aimed at a console market and would play terribly on a controller, it is asking a bit much of Obsidian to get a controller UI working as a result.  I mention controller UI because even though you could use a keyboard and mouse on PS4 the thing is most PS4 owners again won't have that option for one reason or another and it assumes peripherals the average PS4 owner simply doesn't have for their PS4.

 

Yup, I agree and that's pretty much why I wrote earlier that I cannot imagine "translating" PC controls-combo of mouse and keyboard to  console's gamepad (though it has that touch screen isn't it?). Shame really, because the only winner here are those who milk consumers "forced" to pick 2 or even 3 different systems for the sake of being able to play what they find worthwhile and wider their gaming experience.

Will never agree with laws that say emulation is a crime.

 

Like Ross Scott recently said:

"there are no good reasons, only legal ones"

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"There are no good reasons. Only legal ones." - Ross Scott

 It's not that I'm lazy. I just don't care.

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I was wondering have you considered ps4 version of this?

 

The system is powerful , it's easy to port games annd it supports mouse and keyboard use natively .

 

Warthunder does it and also uses the same servers for pc and ps4 gamers .

Finally convergance of mediums is happening and consoles gamers and pc gamers are playing together / against each other .

I think it would be great to make it on ps4. It would widened the audiemce for the game and make more money.

And while they're making a Playstation version, they should also make the game an MMO, playable on Facebook. And switch it to an FPS, since that would work better on those platforms!

 

Awesome!

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"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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@skeet: TL;DR: Niche games are different because they only need to worry about appealing to their niche. Console ports explictly serve the mass market, and bring mass market pressures on them, and thereby reduce their niche appeal. I want both niche games and mass-market games to exist. Therefore, I only have a problem with mass market games if they crowd out niche games, and I have seen that happen too many times with console ports. Therefore, no console port TYVM.

 

Your personal opinion is that the series went downhill with Oblivion, but that is not at all a dominant view.

Yeah. Fifty Shades of Grey sold a beellion copies too, but it's still shyte.

 

A game series whose design changes over time while including consoles does not mean all change can attributed to consoles. That's really just the natural evolution of a series. The implication that you are making that the inclusion of consoles ruins games is not backed up by anything, the fact that Skyrim is widely regarded as being the best of the series so far (no matter the platform), and that it's remained for months now one of the top 10 games played on Steam counter your argument that it was ruined for PC gamers.

Nonsense. The "natural evolution of a series" is what happens as the world gets bigger and deeper and collects more lore, as technology becomes more capable, and the team making it gets better. Going for mass appeal is a conscious decision, and usually involves removing things that are "too hard" or "too difficult to understand" or "need too much reading."

 

Thing is, there will always be games appealing to a mass audience. Why wouldn't there be? That's where the big money is. That's totally fine by me.

What's not  totally fine by me is if there are no niche games. I.e., games designed to be played by people like me. And a console port does seriously endanger those games. This happens through the dynamic of Metacritic and the gaming press, which is much bigger on the console side. If it's moderately successful, it'll create pressure to make the next one more palatable to console players. This has happened over and over again. Deus Ex, Elder Scrolls, the entire devolution of BioWare, and so on and so forth. 

 

Why does everyone feel the need to be exclusive? I love PE, and I would like for as many gamers who want to enjoy it to be able to.

I repeat the question from my previous post: how many console owners do you think don't have a low-end PC capable of running PoE? How many of those do you think are the kind of gamer who would enjoy a game in the style of PoE?

 

 

Why do you feel like it will somehow detract from your experience to simply know that someone else is also enjoying it from their couch?

Why do you keep a cage full of miniature space bunnies in your attic? Don't you see the poor things are suffering? (I pulled that out of my arse too.)

 

Regardless of if you dislike consoles, it's your personal choice not to own one, and a post-release port won't affect your PC enjoyment of the game in ANY way. It may even increase it because you'll be sharing the experience with more people.

Again: how many console owners who would probably enjoy the type of game PoE is going to be do you think don't own a low-end or better PC?

 

TL;DR: Realize people are different. Get over your need to deny others experiences you enjoy.

Yeah, that's it. Not.

 

Once again: I have nothing against the existence of Fifty Shades or Da Vinci Code or Harry Potter. I only have a problem if they crowd out The Star Fraction, Transitions, and the Malazan Book of the Fallen. I know of no example where a series that did get ported to consoles got better -- i.e., more to my subjective, personal tastes -- after being ported, whereas I can list a dozen examples off the top of my head where it got worse, and it got worse in specific, easy-to-point-out ways.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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They're all PCs. 

 

Consoles are the enemy.

 

They divide the player base.

 

They enrich the platform license holders, not the content creators.

 

They remove control from the player to overcome dysfunctional control mechanisms. 

 

They *severely* retard technological advancement, (aside from a few novelty toys). 

 

They introduce service charges where there is no service.

 

They are the enemy and their proponents fall squarely into the infected camp. 

 

That being said, who cares. OP sounds like a shill paid to travel the internets drumming up hype for an over-licensed, under performing, non-upgradeable pre-built. 

Are you gonna throw rocks at me? What about now?

..

What about now?

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*Enter obviously stupid thread*

 

*Like amusing replies on first page*

 

*Try to leave*

 

*Instead post inane comment*

 

*Leave*

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Everyone in this thread explicitly against a console port (not including those who don't mind if it happens after release) seems to be operating under the assumption that console gamers are somehow inherently different gamers with drastically different tastes.

 

I don't think the problem is that console gamers wouldn't be interested in a game like Eternity or that console gamers and PC gamers are completely disjoint sets, but that it's not necessarily a game that most people would want to play on a console.

 

I do some console gaming and I do some PC gaming. I enjoy both. Would I be interested in playing a game like Eternity on a console? Not a chance! And while I realize that my preferences aren't necessarily representative of the community as a whole, I wouldn't be at all suprised to find out that there is not really much of a market for mouse + keyboard, party-based, RT, isometric RPGs on consoles. (Even if many console gamers also enjoy playing this sort of game.)

 

That said, if people do want to play this on their consoles and Obsidian wants to try to make a port... sure, go for it! But I agree, that I would hope that that's something they work on after the PC version has already been released.

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I'll just begin with saying that while I in general dislike games that are exclusive to one format (since it goes both ways), I don't think Eternity is a game that has much to gain from a console version. That being said;

 


I don't like the locked-down hardware

 

 

 
You do know that this game is coming out on Mac, right? Mac has been the very definition of "locked-down hardware" since long before "console gaming" was a thing. Besides, who are all these "console gamers" or "PC gamers" that exlusively play on one system and wouldn't touch another format? That goes beyond silly. Consoles are here to stay and since things don't happen in a bubble the influence of consoles will be considerable even on games not released on them. I'm just happy that the PS4 will help drive down prices on GDDR5.
 
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