Attribute theory

[Mor]

Sorry for being late to the party but what attribute you guys referring to? I don't recall seeing anything official about which attribute governs healing.

[Sensuki]

Resolve modifies the duration of any effect generated by the character.

Does it cover Psyche/Will defense as well?

 

In my above example Psyche is on it's own. One thing I can think of that is *possibly* attribute related is Effect Duration. This would be useful for *most* classes as most classes do have abilities and spells that have effects, but the duration bonus would have to be finely granular as to not be OP.

 

Sorry for being late to the party but what attribute you guys referring to? I don't recall seeing anything official about which attribute governs healing.

Did you even read the thread?

 

Strength, mentioned about 6 times.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Sensuki

[Prometheus]

 

Strength, mentioned about 6 times.

 

Have they confirmed that strength governs damage? I think it's the most likely stat, as you said in your opening post.

[Sensuki]

Have they confirmed that strength governs damage? I think it's the most likely stat, as you said in your opening post.

No, but would you bet against it ?

 

What else would govern damage and healing out of Dex, Con, Int or Per ?

[Mor]

 

Sorry for being late to the party but what attribute you guys referring to? I don't recall seeing anything official about which attribute governs healing.

Did you even read the thread?

 

Strength, mentioned about 6 times.

 

I must have missed it because other than speculation(OP included), I haven't seen anything official about healing(I assumed that Constitution is the more likely attribute to govern our vitality) and it is kind of early to rationalize something that may not be true..

[Sensuki]

I must have missed it because other than speculation(OP included), I haven't seen anything official about healing(I assumed that Constitution is the more likely attribute to govern our vitality) and it is kind of early to rationalize something that may not be true..

Right well since you have a problem at taking my word for stuff I'll link you.

 

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9059

 

The specific list may change, but the biggest difference players will notice in Attributes (compared to A/D&D ability scores) is that all of their bonuses are uniformly applied instead of being keyed to specific types of weapons or attacks. E.g. one Attribute affects bonus damage (and healing) and one affects bonus accuracy -- regardless of the weapons or spells being used.

Here are the two references to it in the OP:

 

from the RPGCodex Q&A with Josh Sawyer earlier this year, he revealed that at that current state in time, there was an attribute that governed Damage and bonus healing.

and right down the bottom of the OP:

EDIT: Changed all references "Stamina Regen" to "Bonus Healing" as per the actual quote on the Damage stat - http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9059

Constitution probably does govern vitality.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Sensuki

[Mor]

I have no problem with your word, but a link works better then 'Sensuki said so', at least as far as reference go This tidbit makes your speculation very likely, but unless you have a link that confirms that strength governs damage, we back where we tarted...

[Sensuki]

The link was in the OP.

[ItinerantNomad]

It seems to me that resolve would be high in the paladins.

 

I actually like the fact that each attribute is useful for any character. Most people, I believe, don't like it, because they now have to sit and really think about what attributes they want for each character and a difficult problem makes lives difficult.

[Sensuki]

Originally I was against the simplification of things like damage on the same stat, but it works within the system that Josh has created - as it follows his overall design.

 

I will be interested to see how it holds up in terms of legacy systems and how "fun" it is in comparison.

[JFSOCC]

I'm going to play a high resolve rogue, that's for sure.

[Mor]

Damn, I hoped that JS will confirm or spill some light on how some of the other attributes are being used in our game.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Strength affects your Health and number of inventory slots.  Constitution affects Stamina.  Dexterity affects Accuracy.  Perception affects Critical Damage.  Intellect affects Damage and Healing.  Resolve affects Durations and AoE size.  We may slightly shift these, but this is what we will be working with in the foreseeable future.

 

Each defense (other than Deflection) is equally influenced by two stats.  Aside from level, the attributes that contribute to each defense are the primary determining factors of that defense.  Class (now) rarely has a large influence on a character's defenses.

 

Fortitude - Strength and Constitution

Reflexes - Dexterity and Perception

Willpower - Intellect and Resolve

 

Deflection is the exception to this.  While Fort/Ref/Will share roughly equal time in defending characters, Deflection is the most commonly-attacked defense.  It is not influenced by any attribute and is mostly determined by level and class.  Characters like fighters and paladins have great base Deflection.  Characters like priests and wizards do not.

[Ganrich]

Josh, that looks very interesting. I have a quick question. Will the attribute be specced at character creation like the IE games, or will it be like Dragon Age: Origins where they mostly go up as you level? I am hoping for the former.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Attributes are set at character creation and their base values do not increase a lot as you level up.

[Ganrich]

Awesome! TY Josh!

[ItinerantNomad]

Have you considered making any of these attributes affect the derived stats based on class, Josh?

 

For example, while

 

Class 1
Strength affects your Health and number of inventory slots.
Constitution affects Stamina.
Dexterity affects Accuracy.  
Perception affects Critical Damage.
Intellect affects Damage and Healing.
Resolve affects Durations and AoE size

Class 2
Strength affects damage and durations
constitution affects stamina and healing
intellect affects inventory slots
dexterity affects accuracy
perception affects duration and aoe size
resolve affects critical damage.

Class 3
strength affects health and stamina.
constitution affects healing.
dexterity affects critical damage.
perception affects accuracy.
intellect affects damage and durations.
perception affects aoe size.
resolve affects inventory slots.

[ItinerantNomad]

It might even be nice to have a talent or ability that can do such a thing (even for a short while).

[J.E. Sawyer]

No, because it becomes incredibly difficult to balance.  One of the great struggles with D&D-style attributes is the wild variability of what stats affect what abilities for individual classes.  The influences of PoE's attributes are broad and general so they are always of some clear value to every class.

[Gumbercules]

Heh, now I see why these attributes might be considered controversial. Reading Sensuki's guesses I was thinking "Hmm, all of this seems perfectly reasonable and inoffensive..." but the final result could definitely make simulationists pitch a fit.

 

The attribute system looks like it could be very interesting and fun to play around with. Just looking at it on paper, without having played the game obviously, it looks like it could get an "A" for build variety and tough decision-making but an "F" for intuitiveness. The way the attributes contribute to defenses is intuitive and easy to remember, but you could probably randomly jumble the other attribute effects and they would make about as much sense.

 

I'm excited to test out various attribute builds when the game is finally released, but please make it a top priority to figure out a way to make the attribute logic easy to justify and remember. I dunno, it might just be a matter of presenting the player with lore-based explanations of each attribute written in a persuasive enough way that they forget to think, "Wait, but couldn't Strength just as easily affect Damage?"

[J.E. Sawyer]

I think an "F" for intuitiveness is a little much, maybe a "C".  Strength affects inventory, Constitution affects Stamina, Dexterity affects Accuracy.  I don't think those elements are particularly unintuitive, whether you've played D&D or not.  Perception and Resolve are brand new, so I think players will look more closely at them.  Strength and Intellect are the most different (as far as D&Dish carryover stats, not counting Resolve as a Charisma/Wisdom stand-in), but I think those are also two of the stats in D&D that have some of the worst class-related imbalances.  Charisma is, IMO, the most problematic/frequently dumped, which is why it was replaced entirely by Resolve.

[Gumbercules]

Fair enough. I am more excited about what the system means for build variety than I am put off by what it means for verisimilitude.

 

Yeah, Strength and Intellect were the two that were tripping me up the most. I do wonder, with this system, what does someone or something that inflicts damage through pure brawn look like? For example, that ogre from the teaser video. What do its stats look like?

[J.E. Sawyer]

Well, ogres are actually pretty intelligent, but creatures like trolls (for example) rely more on the very high base damage of their weapons than on being smarty about where they land blows.  A troll doesn't gain most of its damage from its Intellect, but from its insane claws.  Ogres do a lot of damage based on their huge weapons, but have a larger bonus due to their much higher Intellect (compared to a troll, anyway).

[SunBroSolaire]

Sounds pretty good. I especially like that defenses are affected by multiple attributes - should lead to some interesting character building.

 

I wonder what the thinking is behind making Intellect affect damage. Just a balance thing? Doesn't really bother me, but I always assume STR will benefit raw damage output.

 

edit: Ninja'd by Josh.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SunBroSolaire

[Sensuki]

Very cool. Glad to see something a bit more non-traditional.

 

I actually like how Intelligence affects damage - makes more sense

 

Heh, now I see why these attributes might be considered controversial. Reading Sensuki's guesses I was thinking "Hmm, all of this seems perfectly reasonable and inoffensive..." but the final result could definitely make simulationists pitch a fit.

Well I am a simulationist - not an extreme one, and those are fine to me. Better than I hoped they would be too.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Sensuki