Update #66: Double Whammy

[Solviulnir the Soulbinder]

Yeah, I hope that there's a bit more to it than what we saw. I remember that Josh Sawyer said they had some problems arranging the buildings within the walled area, but I agree with you that the current layout doesn't look too good. 

[Mor]

When there's just one huge fortified building that takes up so much space, there's really little you can do to to represent all the promised "components" of the stronghold.

Exactly, which is why I dismissed all the fortress designs from the start, and went with the design posted by Posbi, which offers realism and enough space to incorporate all the necessary buildings in our stronghold:

 

 

 

Btw about your drawing. I think it makes sense to have at least one stone building within, considering how massive our stone walls are. Though I the proportions are off, the keep entrance is twice is big as the stronghold gates.

 

I see how they needed to cater for the needs of many e.g. botanical garden/maze/forum etc. There needs to be place for all that stuff and all of it is equally important as some people will have fun growing poisonous plants, others hone their stealth skill in the maze (?) etc. etc.

Of course they need to include all the planed buildings, however, those are nothing but visual aids(you want be actually growing or training there) and only need to make sense in grand scheme of the stronghold. Which is my main issue with this early concept art, that it looks like a walled in exhibition of utility buildings for our skill bonuses as opposed to a real stronghold where people would live.

 

Btw how many "essential" buildings we are still missing, two/three? training grounds which would fit in any open area, Curio shop which would fit in any house with some tools outside and a Prison which might be underground.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Mor

[Posbi]

IIRC the prison is in an underground dungeons that you first get to clear.

[neo6874]

It's kinda hard to put in perspective because "hey this is what we're working on! (pic)" has to kinda show everything instead of just giving us 1/9th the stronghold (note -> I'm assuming that it will fill a large portion of the area -> more like Candlekeep in BG1 than the Friendly Arms Inn), because people would get upset over Obsidian giving a picture of the keep/gatehouse and just saying "and over to the left are the stables and maze, to the right is the curio shop, theatre, and 'custom building' (Mage tower or something else depending on choices) so perhaps when we walk up to the stronghold, the layout might be "the same" -- but a lot more spread out, and less cramped looking.

[Mor]

the layout might be "the same" -- but a lot more spread out, and less cramped looking.

I think it might be best. The massive walls suggest its much larger location, at some point it was probably rather important/populated, but atm it supposed to be abandoned and rebuilt by us, so I'd be surprised to find many buildings standing still outside of few rebuilt clusters(maybe we can have sheep herd in the ruins of the rest, or something).

 

Here is quick copy&paste of this idea:

 

 

[neo6874]

^ nice.

 

I wasn't even thinking that ... but rather more along the lines of Obsidian going, "OK people, so here's everything in your stronghold crammed into 1/9 the space" -- I mean didn't they say in one of the updates that "essentially" each area is a 3x3 grid of "stuff" (terrain, what have you) ...

Edited December 9, 2013 by neo6874

[Mor]

They can cram whatever they want, as long as the final result makes sense. Such holds isn't a new concept for them, they had great examples in BG\BG2 and the whole world for reference and they have very skilled artists to make it so. Btw here is De'arnise hold from BG2:

 

 

 

I used the early concept art for my copy&paste to illustrate what I don't like, because it was pointed out that they are not likely to drastically change style midway(and I can't draw for s*** by myself) If it was upto me as a point of reference i'd suggest Posbi design and something like this(just bigger court yard):

 

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Also have to take into account the limitations. If the map was only rendered, all was fine. But with individual buildings in stages (rather than the whole map, then you would just load a new map) there will be a system needed to replace parts of the drawn screen for other parts. Having items closely interact then (like the houses) would require additional load. Not to mention pathfinding.

 

A realistic setting like one of the pictures shown last page has been used in BG1 with the Naskal mines (remember?), but I assume that would make it really difficult to phase out parts of the map based on status of repair.

 

(All under assumption it works that way, and it's not overpainted with a new placeable image of the upgrade or something)

Edited December 11, 2013 by Hassat Hunter

[JFSOCC]

level 20 of commandos has a bad-ass castle too.