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Do not forget the happy endings ;)

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Do not forget the happy endings ;)

Said the man walking into the Thai massage parlour.

 

:dancing:

 

 

 

I'll get me coat.

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Chronicler of the Obsidian Order; for the pen is mightier than the sword!

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And the final words in the game are spluttered forth by a harlequin: "Me love you long time!"

 

I'll also get my coat. I have an alpha version of Divinity: Original Sin to play in all earnest.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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And the final words in the game are spluttered forth by a harlequin: "Me love you long time!"

 

I'll also get my coat. I have an alpha version of Divinity: Original Sin to play in all earnest.

Ha! Have fun! 


Chronicler of the Obsidian Order; for the pen is mightier than the sword!

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The game ending that has probably engaged me most is the ending of Oblivion. Martin, with your character's help, removes the immediate threat, but after the denouement my character wandered the Imperial City stunned by feelings of personal loss and (rightly) apprehensive of what the 4th Era might bring.

I thought Oblivion's ending was complete and utter crap. You end up being some random errand boy/girl to a sad noble that barely bothers to get out of bed in the morning but does some cool stuff and turns into a gigantic statue at the very end in order to get all the credit....oh and you're a nobody, did I mention that? I played Skyrim for a bit and there was nothing wrong with the game itself but I ended up just abandoning it....largely because Oblivion's ending was complete and utter crap....so I figured why even bother with this crap anymore?

 

 

Different folks, I guess. Martin was always buried in a pile of books, researching daedric magic, when I visited Skyruler Temple. I'm not sure why you thought he was idle. I saw us a partners. He figured out what we needed to do. My character did the field work. I thought he did a good job of portraying what it means to have non-transferable responsibility. He was fairly ascetic in his personal habits, but I never saw him as "sad."

 

As for being a nobody, post-Morrowind the forums were full of players who claimed to be tired of being the chosen one.They wanted to play an ordinary person.  Bethesda listened.  Then folks like you complained that they were a "nobody." The lesson here seems to be: don't listen to fans.  They disagree among themselves and are quick to complain if you give them what the noisiest ask for. Personally, I'm fine playing either as hero or hero's assistant.

 

Sorry, you didn't enjoy Oblivion or Skyrim more.

Edited by Lady Evenstar

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just it im sure you get the ending one deserv P:E im sure is complex at that like happy ending for companions not only one self hmm ?

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just it im sure you get the ending one deserv P:E im sure is complex at that like happy ending for companions not only one self hmm ?

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

Sure ...

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I'd prefer an open ending really, nothing that changes the fate and order of the universe, so that a potential sequel wouldn't need to take part 500 years into the future and on a different continent just not to take all the endings into account.

Also no deus ex machinas and no ending selection menus 5 minutes before the end, instead it should be influenced by actions and decisions throughout the game.


// believing is bleeding

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snip

 

Basically what I'm getting from this is "don't take anything from Mass Effect at all," which I totally agree with. Mass Effect was a neat storytelling idea, but in hindsight, it was also a colossal failure regarding what it set out to do.

 

Not necessarily. Mass Effect 3 was a story based game they made unwinnable through the story. The overall advice there is that Obsidian should make sure the story always flows naturally and doesn't have an arbitrarily imposing obstacle that can't be overcome outside of the parameters of the world. Imagine trying to enjoy Lord of the Rings without the one ring as an achilles heel. It would suddenly be insufferable and any resulting resolution would be idiotic.

 

This was also the problem Dragon Age 2 had. No matter what you did, everything always turned out exactly the same way because the game refused to let you have a lasting impact on the world. The game was unwinnable. It was less infuriating because the story was so different, though.

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I'd prefer an open ending really, nothing that changes the fate and order of the universe, so that a potential sequel wouldn't need to take part 500 years into the future and on a different continent just not to take all the endings into account.

Also no deus ex machinas and no ending selection menus 5 minutes before the end, instead it should be influenced by actions and decisions throughout the game.

No. Screw that. If they're going to give the player choice make them meaningful choices. I am sick a tired of the BioWare shenanigans where no choice you ever make has any meaning because of sequels.....F*** SEQUELS. Make a great game with true choice and consequence that fully reflects across the entire game, especially in the ending(because otherwise there is no bloody point to any of it). If then that can be worked into a sequel then great but if not then leave it alone and just make another game altogether, surprise us with another amazing adventure that is new and fresh and has true choices and consequences.

 

The ONLY reason I backed Obsidian is because they are a very rare kind of developer that still believes and delivers on true and complete choice-consequence systems in their stories. If they let their games degrade into garbage like BioWare did it'd be a damn disgrace.


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Look, I love both ends of the Light/Dark spectrum as much as the next girl. Whether it's Happiness and Rainbows with a Sprinkling of Unicorn Tears or Personal, Global and Universal Damnation of Everything I Ever Loved. I love it all, but... Realistically speaking? Some stories don't work with a "Happy Ending" vibe. Just like other stories don't really mesh with the whole "World of Eternal Darkness and Desolation" thing that Neverwinter Nights 2 had going on...

 

Endings can't just be plucked from thin air on a whim, they need to work... They need to fit.

 

I was trying to replay Dragon Age Origins recently and one thing I notice through-out the entire game is the amount of emphasis on a Grey Warden's responsibilities during a Blight. The sacrifices they have to make. Almost all major NPCs at least off-handedly mention it; Duncan, Alistair, First Enchanter Irving, the Couslands and their men, Leliana... Heck, Wynne goes on about it almost non-stop, you practically have to gag her to make her stop preaching on about Warden sacrifice and the greater good. Well, you know what Wynne? I'm at the Lands Meet and I made exactly zero sacrifices up until this point. All my problems had solutions that ended in immediate happiness and rainbows so I don't know what you're going on abou-

 

I HAVE TO DO WHAT?! Well, okay... Yeah, I-... I guess that's a right proper sacrifice isn't it? So, this is what all that foreshadowing was building up to? Well, I'm sorry it's come to this. Alistair, you're going to have to take one for the team...... JOKE! Magic fixes everything with an epic loophole out of the blue. And I do mean out of the blue. Because there has been no indication that such a loophole exists. No off-handed comments, no sly remarks, no background rumours or codex entries. Not a single thing in the game that somehow turns this Magical Loophole into a viable ending.

 

So my Warden's "responsibility", my Warden's "great sacrifice" to end the Blight? That didn't happen. Thanks to magic, Anithae Amell got her happy ending. (At least for the immediate future)

 

Speaking quite frankly, it irritated the **** out of me.... Not because it was a happy ending, but because it completely disregarded everything you had been told through-out the game and randomly dropped a solution into your lap from bloody nowhere. You cannot completely disregard the story that has been told just so you can shoe-horn a fan service ending into it, whether it's for blissful happiness or crushing despair. An ending can't just be created for the sake of it, it has to shift and change, it needs to evolve from the story. 

 

I have faith in the writers and I don't need them to create the ideal Happy/Sad endings, especially not at the expense of coherent story telling. I just want them to craft endings that make sense, endings that best suit their story.

 

 

Edits: because spelling is hard at 1am. Who knew?

Edited by Sylvanpyxie
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I like phyrric victory endings, especially for fantasy scenarios, which are usually too 'black and white'. I prefer ambiguity.

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I liked the ending to Arcanum. Not merely did you get a twist at the end, but seeing all of the ramifications of your actions to the whole world was great. Whole cities rose or fell depending on your actions. Even better, is that the world felt like it continued without you. The concluding vingettes showed you how you influenced the world, but that world still kept moving without you. It is possible to have things both ways in games, and I feel like that was one of the ways Arcanum succeeded.

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Look, I love both ends of the Light/Dark spectrum as much as the next girl. Whether it's Happiness and Rainbows with a Sprinkling of Unicorn Tears or Personal, Global and Universal Damnation of Everything I Ever Loved. I love it all, but... Realistically speaking? Some stories don't work with a "Happy Ending" vibe. Just like other stories don't really mesh with the whole "World of Eternal Darkness and Desolation" thing that Neverwinter Nights 2 had going on...

 

Endings can't just be plucked from thin air on a whim, they need to work... They need to fit.

 

I was trying to replay Dragon Age Origins recently and one thing I notice through-out the entire game is the amount of emphasis on a Grey Warden's responsibilities during a Blight. The sacrifices they have to make. Almost all major NPCs at least off-handedly mention it; Duncan, Alistair, First Enchanter Irving, the Couslands and their men, Leliana... Heck, Wynne goes on about it almost non-stop, you practically have to gag her to make her stop preaching on about Warden sacrifice and the greater good. Well, you know what Wynne? I'm at the Lands Meet and I made exactly zero sacrifices up until this point. All my problems had solutions that ended in immediate happiness and rainbows so I don't know what you're going on abou-

 

I HAVE TO DO WHAT?! Well, okay... Yeah, I-... I guess that's a right proper sacrifice isn't it? So, this is what all that foreshadowing was building up to? Well, I'm sorry it's come to this. Alistair, you're going to have to take one for the team...... JOKE! Magic fixes everything with an epic loophole out of the blue. And I do mean out of the blue. Because there has been no indication that such a loophole exists. No off-handed comments, no sly remarks, no background rumours or codex entries. Not a single thing in the game that somehow turns this Magical Loophole into a viable ending.

 

So my Warden's "responsibility", my Warden's "great sacrifice" to end the Blight? That didn't happen. Thanks to magic, Anithae Amell got her happy ending. (At least for the immediate future)

 

Speaking quite frankly, it irritated the **** out of me.... Not because it was a happy ending, but because it completely disregarded everything you had been told through-out the game and randomly dropped a solution into your lap from bloody nowhere. You cannot completely disregard the story that has been told just so you can shoe-horn a fan service ending into it, whether it's for blissful happiness or crushing despair. An ending can't just be created for the sake of it, it has to shift and change, it needs to evolve from the story. 

 

I have faith in the writers and I don't need them to create the ideal Happy/Sad endings, especially not at the expense of coherent story telling. I just want them to craft endings that make sense, endings that best suit their story.

 

 

Edits: because spelling is hard at 1am. Who knew?

I agree that endings must absolutely fit the story and the game but I do not agree of being stuck down a path of doom because such is the story. Most endings have to feel great for the player, empowering and satisfying no matter what their theme may be.....endings can be very dark and still leave the player happy with the way they played out. Plot twists can e amazing but should be used as a catalyst to challenge the player's loyalties and plan of action NOT to give the player a magic way out or to get the player stuck in a certain situation. In the case of Dragon Age the magic way out should have been better incorporated into the story and leave it as an optional thing the player could choose to pursue and discover from the start of the game.

 

And the non magic ending should have allowed a wider variety of options including the ability to overcome and defeat the Archdemon's soul when it was trying to inhabit your body without dying and perhaps in the process erasing the long-term negative effects of the gray warden disease. A battle of the wills perhaps.....this could be played off as a feat nobody pulled off before and therefore unexpected.

 

The worst mistake any ending can make is to leave the player resigned to a pre-described fate, f*** that. If they want to implement "you suck" endings they need to make absolutely certain that they only occur to players who really suck(didn't complete most optional content, took no time to explore options and generally just rushed the bullet he/she bit) but even then there should be at least two endings where the player is fully in control for every "you-suck" ending and I mean absolute bare minimum.....preferably there should be four endings where the player is in control for every "screw you" ending.


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Two greatest fallacies I see in game endings are:

 

1) Predetermined approach(impossible odds, some affliction will kill you in time etc.): The "Well that's what this story is about....we told you from the start of the game you're f***** so what did you expect?" approach. Well not this pile of suck....that's for sure.

 

2) You're the hero: The part where you're forced into the shoes of the good guy or the savior and any choice you may have is limited to your tone of voice(Mass Effect is the most popular example). This pretty much means you amount to nothing more than the typical military drone and usually involves "heroic sacrifice for the greater good" garbage.

 

Both of these are cliche, overused and most of all complete garbage. Let the player think outside the box and at least feel like he/she is taking matter into his/her own hands no matter what anyone says. Basically just saying: "Yeah whatever, I've heard all about what's possible so I'll go do something that isn't and I'm going to pull it off." The story and plot twists should be there to open unexpected options for the player or to try to make the player reconsider his/her allegiances but never to restrict the player.

 

Obsidian has done an amazing job with Alpha Protocol and New Vegas in this aspect and that's precisely what makes them so great and amazing....they are not afraid of giving true choice to the player.

Edited by Darth Trethon

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I HAVE TO DO WHAT?! Well, okay... Yeah, I-... I guess that's a right proper sacrifice isn't it? So, this is what all that foreshadowing was building up to? Well, I'm sorry it's come to this. Alistair, you're going to have to take one for the team...... JOKE! Magic fixes everything with an epic loophole out of the blue. And I do mean out of the blue. Because there has been no indication that such a loophole exists. No off-handed comments, no sly remarks, no background rumours or codex entries. Not a single thing in the game that somehow turns this Magical Loophole into a viable ending.

 

So my Warden's "responsibility", my Warden's "great sacrifice" to end the Blight? That didn't happen. Thanks to magic, Anithae Amell got her happy ending. (At least for the immediate future)

I don't see it that way at all. The blight is driven by some kind of blind passion. Despite the cunning behind the horde's movements and strategies, they are undeniably animalistic in their execution. There is no thought or even goal behind their actions. Whatever you're giving to Morrigan isn't like that at all. It has the soul of an old god but the control and temperament of a person. You're potentially unleashing a living deity on the world who could uproot or destroy everything even more certainly than the blight ever would. That's not a happy ending, it's potentially trading an even worse future for a single life. It's the biggest gamble possible. To me that was totally unacceptable, and so Morrigan ran off and Alistar took one for the team because he wubbed me. That ended up being a very striking ending to me because I didn't see any way out of it. Every option available was bad. I mean you basically gave Morrigan a Bhaalspawn to save one person. What if you end up getting a Sarevok out of that? 

 

Of course that was when I was looking at it in the moment. By the time you get to Dragon Age 2 you see that franchising this series kind of ruins it. Instead of making a bunch of self contained stories across the globe, something as big as Morrigan's baby is too big to possibly factor in to future games. It's big enough to make a game out of itself. And if they did make such a game, they're most likely going to just put a magic fix button on everything instead of ending up with an upending change. But that's why we have headcanon, I guess.

Edited by Wolfenbarg
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