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Features concerns so far

update concern criticism

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#161
forgottenlor

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@KaineParker. I truly admire your level of patience. I would have left the conversation about 5 posts ago. And personally I could care less how xp is handled.


Edited by forgottenlor, 28 September 2013 - 07:33 AM.


#162
PrimeJunta

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Direct link to the T:ToN "Crises" document. It really is a fine piece of game design IMO and well worth looking at. It's probably too late in the game for PE to take inspiration from it, but perhaps they've been working along similar lines – there is a lot of cross-fertilizaiton between the teams, right down to shared members.



#163
Valorian

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1) Oh Kaine, poor thing. :cat:
 
I knew you'd need a step by step explanation, but even then.. I'm not sure if it is going to work, given your immunity to logic.
 
I kept repeating "abilities and talents". Now, why would I mention talents constantly if I was referring to everything?
You're a walking contradiction. You complain that I didn't explain precisely that I meant slaughtering a city without it being a quest, and now you use terms randomly. First, start by learning that abilities, talents and skills are separate entities in PE, and then we can, perhaps, discuss things.


Again: Prove that it PE will have a ratio of 9:1 combat abilities to non-combat abilities, with "abilities" meaning "a skill or talent", not the PE resource "Ability".

2) :w00t: So you say PE won't have combat XP. But yet you're hysterically agitating for sneak-around-encounter XP? Your combatophobia has increased considerably in the last few days, I see.


No, I'm explaining how my ideal encounter XP system would look and telling you to go away if the idea of no-combat XP bothers you that much. You should learn English instead of using a translator.
  

3) Your tiny point by point answers didn't actually answer anything.


Says the guy who has been in able to answer how he arrived at a very specific numerical conclusion.
 

But let's have a closer look at point four.
So, for instance, you enter a wide open area, then you click on your stealthy rogue and scout around with him, the rogue sees that encounters "A B C D E F G.. Z" exist. Then the rogue returns to his party and they follow the end of the map to reach another area. Do they get rewarded with XP for sneaking around encounters "A B C D E F G.. Z"?


In my ideal system, yes. However, unless the Rogue was INCREDIBLY adept at stealth or every enemy was sleeping, the chance they would be detected would be almost certain.
 

4) Perhaps it would be slightly ironic if spelling (actually, missing an "n" because of typing too fast) in a foreign language was any indication of intelligence.


Keine entschuldigung.

Man up, you lowlife virgin reprobate.

 

 

1)

How am I dodging a question about the validity of a statement that I've never made?

 

Again, talking about PE, only in a mental vacuum does "abilities and talents" equate to "abilities --> meaning --> talents and skills".

Are you aware that the category "abilities" is separated from talents and skills?

 

But all right, just for your convenience, let's pretent for a second we're in a parallel universe where your interpretation of what this discussion is about is correct:

 

There is at least 1 class specific ability per level per class (I won't even count individual spells because that would further annihilate your pathetic argument). 11 classes x 12 levels: 132 abilities. If there are any options at all, that would quickly turn into 150+.

Then there's talents. Let's be modest. 50 talents.

 

That's 200 abilities and talents, all combat focused, if you don't count skills which also have auxiliary combat bonuses.

 

Then there's non-combat skills. Do you believe there will be more than 20 skills? Mechanics, stealth, survival, lore, a companion skill, crafting. Go wild.

 

 

2)

So your ideal XP system would be to get XP just fine for sneaking around encounters, yet NOO! XP if you choose the combat route? You keep screaming "because PE will not have combat XP!" Then, with a straight face, you keep advocating XP for sneaking around encounters, while at the same time acknowledging and supporting the idea of no XP for combat.

But right, sorry, you obviously mean something else entirely because what you write is detached from whatever process is going on in your head.

 

Oh, indeed, you're entering the rage phase, so you've started spewing what you really think and want. Not good.  :no:

 

 

3)

My little Klein, missing an "n" while typing fast is one thing.. but what mumbo-jumbo is this: "Says the guy who has been in able to answer how he arrived at a very specific numerical conclusion." ?

 

 

4)

What do you base your assumption on "that unless the Rogue was INCREDIBLY adept at stealth or every enemy was sleeping, the chance they would be detected would be almost certain"?

I mean, unless someone clueless like you is playing the game, I believe it would be fairly easy to figure out what to do: do not cross the circle around your enemy with your circle.
 
 

5)

See, when someone retorts invoking a missing "n", or any other combination of letters, it is a sign that the person has nothing meaningful to say.

 

Also, Klein, no one asked you to apologize. If anything, mother nature owes you an apology... But, since you won't get any, the only thing you can do is sing "Born this way" every day, embracing what mother nature gave you to work with.



#164
KaineParker

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1)
How am I dodging a question about the validity of a statement that I've never made?
 
Again, talking about PE, only in a mental vacuum does "abilities and talents" equate to "abilities --> meaning --> talents and skills".
Are you aware that the category "abilities" is separated from talents and skills?


I was using the definition of abilities. If that confuses you too much, I gave you a definition to help you out. I will only be referring to "Abilities" when I use a capital A.
 

But all right, just for your convenience, let's pretent for a second we're in a parallel universe where your interpretation of what this discussion is about is correct:
 
There is at least 1 class specific ability per level per class (I won't even count individual spells because that would further annihilate your pathetic argument). 11 classes x 12 levels: 132 abilities. If there are any options at all, that would quickly turn into 150+.
Then there's talents. Let's be modest. 50 talents.
 
That's 200 abilities and talents, all combat focused, if you don't count skills which also have auxiliary combat bonuses.
 
Then there's non-combat skills. Do you believe there will be more than 20 skills? Mechanics, stealth, survival, lore, a companion skill, crafting. Go wild.


I don't know what "pretent" is. Is that something you do before constructing a tent?

The thing is, I don't have to prove a quantity. If you had any comprehension skills, you would have understood that my argument wasn't "PE will not have 90% combat abilities to 10% non-combat abilities" but "With the information available, you can not make a quantitative statement about abilities". Since you can not prove your assertion that "over 90% of abilities are combat related", your example is flawed.

 

2)
So your ideal XP system would be to get XP just fine for sneaking around encounters, yet NOO! XP if you choose the combat route? You keep screaming "because PE will not have combat XP!" Then, with a straight face, you keep advocating XP for sneaking around encounters, while at the same time acknowledging and supporting the idea of no XP for combat.
But right, sorry, you obviously mean something else entirely because what you write is detached from whatever process is going on in your head.
 
Oh, indeed, you're entering the rage phase, so you've started spewing what you really think and want. Not good.  :no:

 
"Rage Phase" LOL, no. I couldn't care less what some double-chinned neckbeard thinks.
 

3)
My little Klein, missing an "n" while typing fast is one thing.. but what mumbo-jumbo is this: "Says the guy who has been in able to answer how he arrived at a very specific numerical conclusion." ?


That is English, if you can't understand it, I suggest using a dictionary to illuminate the big words that confuse you. 
 

4)
1.What do you base your assumption on "that unless the Rogue was INCREDIBLY adept at stealth or every enemy was sleeping, the chance they would be detected would be almost certain"?
2.I mean, unless someone clueless like you is playing the game, I believe it would be fairly easy to figure out what to do: do not cross the circle around your enemy with your circle.


1. Enemy AI being slightly more intelligent than a brick wall.
2. Again, my ideal system, not PE. Learn English. 
 

db2405-fat-loser.jpg


I sure envy your ability to whine on the internet. I'm sure that is a hit with women.
 

@KaineParker. I truly admire your level of patience. I would have left the conversation about 5 posts ago. And personally I could care less how xp is handled.


It is just something to do so I have something to laugh at during work. Honestly, anyone who takes a moron like Valorian is just as gullible as someone who takes oby or volo seriously. Except he actually rages, so calling him out on his bull**** is funny.

Direct link to the T:ToN "Crises" document. It really is a fine piece of game design IMO and well worth looking at. It's probably too late in the game for PE to take inspiration from it, but perhaps they've been working along similar lines – there is a lot of cross-fertilizaiton between the teams, right down to shared members.


I have to say, that looks absolutely fantastic. I'm sure I will get quite a bit of enjoyment out of it.

Edited by KaineParker, 28 September 2013 - 02:17 PM.


#165
Gfted1

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Again, if you feel you cannot contribute to a topic without personal insults then it is best to step out of the conversation and collect yourself.



#166
KaineParker

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Again, if you feel you cannot contribute to a topic without personal insults then it is best to step out of the conversation and collect yourself.


Very well then.

Laters, Val, try not to break your keyboard or anything.

#167
Lephys

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Leperchaun, the point of asking those questions was to establish when and how is XP rewarded for sneaking around encounters. Those are valid concerns. Your sad attempts at humor are just that.. sad attempts at humor, as usual.


*Applies aloe vera gel to burn*

You actually skirted my entire post, except for the mostly-just-a-touch-of-humor supplement at the end, there, which you apparently decided to "critique". No feedback on the reasoning I presented? ... Bueller? ... ... ... Bueller?

#168
KaineParker

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Lephys, I would just ignore him. I think it is clear that he is either unwilling or incapable of having a conversation. Also, knowing how much you like to type, it would be a waste to wear out your keyboard responding to the equivalent of "YOU'RE WRONG!!!!!!".

#169
Lephys

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There's a very large difference between disagreeing with someone and simply telling them "you're wrong." Just because everyone doesn't see that doesn't make it not so.

Granted, I AM working on my realization of when further typing simply becomes fruitless. I'm only human... -ly programmed. :)

#170
Valorian

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1)
How am I dodging a question about the validity of a statement that I've never made?
 
Again, talking about PE, only in a mental vacuum does "abilities and talents" equate to "abilities --> meaning --> talents and skills".
Are you aware that the category "abilities" is separated from talents and skills?


I was using the definition of abilities. If that confuses you too much, I gave you a definition to help you out. I will only be referring to "Abilities" when I use a capital A.
 

But all right, just for your convenience, let's pretent for a second we're in a parallel universe where your interpretation of what this discussion is about is correct:
 
There is at least 1 class specific ability per level per class (I won't even count individual spells because that would further annihilate your pathetic argument). 11 classes x 12 levels: 132 abilities. If there are any options at all, that would quickly turn into 150+.
Then there's talents. Let's be modest. 50 talents.
 
That's 200 abilities and talents, all combat focused, if you don't count skills which also have auxiliary combat bonuses.
 
Then there's non-combat skills. Do you believe there will be more than 20 skills? Mechanics, stealth, survival, lore, a companion skill, crafting. Go wild.


I don't know what "pretent" is. Is that something you do before constructing a tent?

The thing is, I don't have to prove a quantity. If you had any comprehension skills, you would have understood that my argument wasn't "PE will not have 90% combat abilities to 10% non-combat abilities" but "With the information available, you can not make a quantitative statement about abilities". Since you can not prove your assertion that "over 90% of abilities are combat related", your example is flawed.

 

2)
So your ideal XP system would be to get XP just fine for sneaking around encounters, yet NOO! XP if you choose the combat route? You keep screaming "because PE will not have combat XP!" Then, with a straight face, you keep advocating XP for sneaking around encounters, while at the same time acknowledging and supporting the idea of no XP for combat.
But right, sorry, you obviously mean something else entirely because what you write is detached from whatever process is going on in your head.
 
Oh, indeed, you're entering the rage phase, so you've started spewing what you really think and want. Not good.  :no:

 
"Rage Phase" LOL, no. I couldn't care less what some double-chinned neckbeard thinks.
 

3)
My little Klein, missing an "n" while typing fast is one thing.. but what mumbo-jumbo is this: "Says the guy who has been in able to answer how he arrived at a very specific numerical conclusion." ?


That is English, if you can't understand it, I suggest using a dictionary to illuminate the big words that confuse you. 
 

4)
1.What do you base your assumption on "that unless the Rogue was INCREDIBLY adept at stealth or every enemy was sleeping, the chance they would be detected would be almost certain"?
2.I mean, unless someone clueless like you is playing the game, I believe it would be fairly easy to figure out what to do: do not cross the circle around your enemy with your circle.


1. Enemy AI being slightly more intelligent than a brick wall.
2. Again, my ideal system, not PE. Learn English. 
 

db2405-fat-loser.jpg


I sure envy your ability to whine on the internet. I'm sure that is a hit with women.
 

@KaineParker. I truly admire your level of patience. I would have left the conversation about 5 posts ago. And personally I could care less how xp is handled.


It is just something to do so I have something to laugh at during work. Honestly, anyone who takes a moron like Valorian is just as gullible as someone who takes oby or volo seriously. Except he actually rages, so calling him out on his bull**** is funny.

Direct link to the T:ToN "Crises" document. It really is a fine piece of game design IMO and well worth looking at. It's probably too late in the game for PE to take inspiration from it, but perhaps they've been working along similar lines – there is a lot of cross-fertilizaiton between the teams, right down to shared members.


I have to say, that looks absolutely fantastic. I'm sure I will get quite a bit of enjoyment out of it.

 

 

 

Hi Kleine! :cat:

Sorry for the delayed response to your... post. Honestly, my motivation to keep communicating with you is rather low, as you're intellectually stimulating as watching a snail crawl. But, like snails, you're part of nature too and it would be unfair for me to outright disregard you.

 

 

You need to get the timeline right, it is not important what you were using or thinking/not thinking, because I defined the point you then responded to, misinterpreting "abilities and talents" to mean "talents and skills" (and whatever else you conjured in your head) out of ignorance.

 

Then, we preDenTed (look, here's your opportunity for another utterly witty retort) that we're in a parallel universe where whatever your brain produces has any meaning whatsoever. And thus I included skills in the equation.

I tried to give you a hint and let you realize that skills, by their nature and Obsidian's design goals, won't be numerically abundant. There are only so many non-combat skills that you can make without landing in the superfluous & never used zone.

 

The problem with you is that when there's an "X" somewhere along the knowledge road, it completely blocks you. Perhaps you do know what the summation of 2 and 2 is, but if I reformulate it into 2 + X = 4, that would undoubtedly confuse you.

 

Oh, here's an opportunity to teach you what irony is, because you previously used the word unsuccessfully. Trying to make fun of someone else's English while writing like this, is irony:


I'm wondering how the character knows that by killing something, he will gain a certain amount of XP and have a boost to all of his abilities my self.

 

 

The you and AI part. Who is smarter and why? J/k, the answer is obvious.

 

1) How would you exactly instruct AI to do anything about a deterministic system where the player has to micromanage to avoid the enemy's circle to not be seen or detected? Should the AI crazily metagame and start running, like a homing missile, after the character even if it doesn't actually see him? 

2) We're talking about PE here, not about a system that you constructed in your head.

 

 

Thank you for sharing your photo.. I guess. It is rather expensive to be forklifted out of your bedroom I suppose, so instead you spend time practicing typing, yes?

 

 

 

As for being a hit with women.. I wouldn't know. Is there a specific reason why you left out half of humanity? Oh, right, you pointed out that you believe I'm a virgin and therefore, you assumed, I'm desperately trying to be a hit with women. Is that it? Cool.. but I'm not interested in women. :shrugz:

 

So you work as a typist from home? That's neat. Being a typist, I mean. 

Do you often omit words when you're upset and angry though? It kinda spoils your work.



#171
Gfted1

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Alright, this thread has run its course. Feel free to start a new one if there is anything productive left to say.


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