Update #63: Stronghold!

[iridescence]

 

The thing is every feeling of progression is lost if all choices are equal. On the first playthrough, it may be totally cool to roleplay and say "shove your stronghold, I'm a man of the road", knowing that you're not losing out on much content. On your second or third playthrough though, I'm sure a feeling of "man, I wish they'd made some better use of that stronghold" will come up.

 

 

Yes. Totally agree. It also actually hurts roleplaying when there are no real consequences for your actions:

 

"Oh, I'm a lawful good paladin! It's easy, I just make sure I click all the goodie goodie conversation options, but I know, one way or the other I'll still get all the rewards everyone else gets! I don't have to steal the old man's heirloom. He'll just offer to give it to me anyway!"

 

That's not what I'd consider real roleplaying. It also totally kills my desire to replay a game when it becomes clear that short of a few conversation changes, everything will basically play out the same no matter what I do.

Edited September 9, 2013 by iridescence

[Messier-31]

Is there something about "equal choices" in my post? Something about a different approach to the same outcome? No? Thought so.

 

Example: "Witcher 2: Assasins of Kings"

 

At the end of Act 1 you get to side with Vernon Roche or with Iorweth. The quality and amount of story after this decision is pretty comparable, yet the results of your actions differentiate a lot. Neither of these paths is better/worse (objectively, not subjectively), yet both have their distinct pros and cons. Can it be done? It can be done. The same goes with a stronghold.

[rjshae]

Is there something about "equal choices" in my post? Something about a different approach to the same outcome? No? Thought so.

 

Example: "Witcher 2: Assasins of Kings"

 

At the end of Act 1 you get to side with Vernon Roche or with Iorweth. The quality and amount of story after this decision is pretty comparable, yet the results of your actions differentiate a lot. Neither of these paths is better/worse (objectively, not subjectively), yet both have their distinct pros and cons. Can it be done? It can be done. The same goes with a stronghold.

 

If you have the expansive budget to develop two entirely different, yet parallel story paths, then yes it can be done. Whatever gets done for P:E will obviously have financial implications, and it may not pay to develop extensive storyline for such a secondary path. If the player chooses not to take the KS-financed Stronghold, then my expectation is that he would not get much in the way of completely unique material for choosing that path. However, perhaps that decision fork is something that can be more extensively developed by the modding community? Personally I think I'd like that possibility.

[Belegnor]

Another cool update!!! This confirms that my decision for backing this project was the right one ...

 

Regarding the discussion about the stronghold's content I see it this way: the stronghold is nothing else than a built-in-already-payed DLC or expansion pack or however you want to call it. Like the DLCs in other CRPGs you can get the content only if you play the DLC through. You don't have to do so if you don't want to, but you also can't expect another way for getting the bonuses and items and companions bound to this DLC.

 

The same applies to the big dungeon too. Running the dungeon through is also optional. You don't have to do it, but you will have to step into the dungeon in order to get the cool stuff inside.

 

Many of you seem to forget that both, the dungeon's additional levels and the stronghold, were added to the project only after reaching the streaching goals for this. The devs never promised to implement a stronghold and alternative content for those that refuse the stronghold. They have only promised a stronghold ...

 

Please don't missunderstand me. I'm not against alternative content and i like the sugestions for playing the stronghold as a bad, bad, very bad foe. But I can't agree with you by requesting a replacement for the stronghold, just without the stronghold. I don't say your sugestion isn't that cool. It is a cool idea ... for another expansion pack, DLC, etc. But it is nothig what we have already paid for ... . I won't dislike it, if the Obsidian team decide to create this additional content anyway, but I won't get sad if they don't.

 

Anyway, I'm sure, we will get a CRPG that everyone will enjoy, whatever they may include or not ...

[ilhdr]

I really hate self-excludent content, making it optional yes, but making it impossible to play some part of the game in just one walkthought doen'st sounds good for me.

[Sannom]

Nop. I'm one of those people and I don't fit your profile. I will enjoy the exclusive gameplay variants that come with the stronghold, such as the whole prisoners affair. Why should I just ask for more side quests when I can have it wrapped up in a neat package that includes a stronghold? You're implying that people just want a stronghold for LARPing reasons and as long as they get a building with high walls they'll be content. I challenge that assumption.

Actually, you completely fit the profile I described. You want the exclusive, different gameplay that comes with the stronghold. You want more content, but wrapped in a different package than the usual quest. That's exactly what I described.

[Tsuga C]

That reminds me, I hope there's a "take all" option in addition to individually clicking items.

But wouldn't that fill your inventory with a significant number of damaged or nearly valueless items that you'd have to regularly purge to keep the clutter to a minimum?

 

Also, Id be thrilled for a console command list.

That's something I'd like, too!

[mcmanusaur]

I wonder if we get to name our stronghold. I'd personally love one called "Vicegrip Stronghold" because I'm all clever with my wordplay and... wait, what was I talking about?

Edited September 9, 2013 by mcmanusaur

[Gfted1]

 

That reminds me, I hope there's a "take all" option in addition to individually clicking items.

But wouldn't that fill your inventory with a significant number of damaged or nearly valueless items that you'd have to regularly purge to keep the clutter to a minimum?

 

Nope, we have infinite inventory. That's whats attractive to me about this system, all the mundane crap on the ground will be kinda like white noise, just there, to be scooped up en masse and sold to trick out my prison. Sawyer said that they squashed most value out of sellables but Im counting on brute force attrition, lol. Hopefully it all stacks. Oh, and I could probably use a "sell all" too while were at it.

[Tsuga C]

Nope, we have infinite inventory.

Doesn't that imply that you'd end up with a collossal list of crap to sift through if you indiscriminately used that "Take All" option? If so, that really sounds annoying... 

[Gfted1]

 

Nope, we have infinite inventory.

Doesn't that imply that you'd end up with a collossal list of crap to sift through if you indiscriminately used that "Take All" option? If so, that really sounds annoying... 

 

I presume the player could choose to not use that option and instead individually click only what they want.

[Stun]

Is there something about "equal choices" in my post? Something about a different approach to the same outcome? No? Thought so.

 

Example: "Witcher 2: Assasins of Kings"

 

At the end of Act 1 you get to side with Vernon Roche or with Iorweth. The quality and amount of story after this decision is pretty comparable, yet the results of your actions differentiate a lot. Neither of these paths is better/worse (objectively, not subjectively), yet both have their distinct pros and cons. Can it be done? It can be done. The same goes with a stronghold.

No, that's a different concept entirely than the Stronghold. What you're describing is a plot fork. In a plot fork, it's a given that both choices are designed to move the plot forward via distinctly different paths. So of course you're going to get plenty of vastly different content resulting from either choice you make. The game would suck otherwise.

 

This stronghold, however, is optional. It's not needed to move the story, therefore, compensating the rejector with an alternative set of content is not essential. The notion of rewarding someone for turning down a stronghold is ridiculous anyway. Someone who chooses to be a "traveling wanderer with no place but the road to call home" should not be treated like someone who acquires land, servants, security detail, gardens, trainers, a castle, and subjects.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Stun

[Lephys]

Nope, we have infinite inventory. That's whats attractive to me about this system, all the mundane crap on the ground will be kinda like white noise, just there, to be scooped up en masse and sold to trick out my prison. Sawyer said that they squashed most value out of sellables but Im counting on brute force attrition, lol. Hopefully it all stacks. Oh, and I could probably use a "sell all" too while were at it.

Seems like a pretty roundabout method, in comparison to simply having money drop directly as opposed to scoopable heaps of random objects that then must be sold.

 

I will say that I like the option of being able to sort of "check" things in your inventory that will then be sold with a "Sell all marked-for-sale objects" button.

 

I wonder if we get to name our stronghold. I'd personally love one called "Vicegrip Stronghold" because I'm all clever with my wordplay and... wait, what was I talking about?

I still prefer the ridiculousness of naming it "FeebleGrasp Keep."

[rjshae]

Perhaps we'll be able to choose our stronghold's heraldic sign from among several styles and select our own house colors? That would add a nice touch of customizability at what's probably a relatively low cost in art assets: just use the same coat of arms symbol over and over, while apply the selected tinting to banners, tabards, and shields.

 

Edited September 10, 2013 by rjshae

[Sacred_Path]

Actually, you completely fit the profile I described. You want the exclusive, different gameplay that comes with the stronghold. You want more content, but wrapped in a different package than the usual quest. That's exactly what I described.

I don't really see that because

 

Actually, no. For the people who strongly wants the stronghold, the rewards that come with it are secondary to the simple break in gameplay it provides.

I wouldn't enjoy the stronghold if it had no numerical advantages, and I wouldn't enjoy it if it had only numerical advantages. I want a system that both reflects a real rise in status, and one that also plays differently than if I hadn't gone down that road.

 

Example: "Witcher 2: Assasins of Kings"

 

At the end of Act 1 you get to side with Vernon Roche or with Iorweth. The quality and amount of story after this decision is pretty comparable, yet the results of your actions differentiate a lot. Neither of these paths is better/worse (objectively, not subjectively), yet both have their distinct pros and cons. Can it be done? It can be done. The same goes with a stronghold.

There must be room for both equal and unequal opportunities in an RPG. I don't really want a game where, after an epic battle, I have to sit down and think "actually, I could just have let everyone live and still be rewarded in equal measure".

[Dianjabla]

I am so glad I backed this. This stronghold sounds like it's a good balance of fun and a pain in the backside.

[Tuckey]

@Dianjabla

 

Agreed. My only real question is how they will customise the stronghold for different classes; ie wizard stronghold vs paladin stronghold; what will be different and why? I would much rather find out by playing through it multiple times however. Too much info would spoil the surprises for me somewhat.

 

Now if Obsidian could show us a vertical slice video so that I can get a feel of what to expect that would be cool.

 

Hint, hint, nudge, nudge.

[Lephys]

If I had to guess, I'd say there won't be class-specific options, but rather, an array of options that will cover all those same sort of class-themed variations but will be available no matter what.

 

In other words, you can make your stronghold a giant militarized fortress, OR an arcane cluster of spires and summoning circles, regardless of whether or not you're a Fighter or a Wizard. But, both options will still be available (for example... I don't know that these specific options will be available).

[Wolfenbarg]

I'm guessing there will be a lot of stronghold mods based on how much people are rolling with this. Hopefully there are plenty of stronghold related quests that have a satisfying conclusion or inclusion in the events of the story.

[ShadySands]

sorry I'm new here but this game will support mods?

[Leferd]

"sorry I'm new here but this game will support mods?"

 

From Update 16: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/323119

 

Mod Support

 

From Neverwinter Nights 2 to Fallout: New Vegas, we've enjoyed supporting the mod community, and we are continuing that with Project Eternity. It is awesome to see how you extend the worlds we make.

 

To make getting mods easy, we are excited to announce that our friends at the Nexus will be the official spot to download Project Eternity mods once the game is released. They have been a great host for mods for our past games, and we want to continue the trend with the Project Eternity Nexus. Check out the Nexus Network at www.nexusmods.com.

 

Our plan is to release our file-format information and expose as much of the data in the game as possible for you to extend and edit. We traditionally do not "hard-code" numbers so that our designers, and you, have the power to easily change and iterate on RPG data. We also plan on releasing localization tools to let communities around the world create localized versions for languages we are not translating Project Eternity into.

 

As we get more familiar with Unity during production, we will be extending Project Eternity even more for mod makers. Look forward to announcements in the months ahead as we make further progress and can provide you with more information about tools and mod support.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Leferd

[ShadySands]

thanks and nice

[Michael_Galt]

That makes me very happy.

[Milten]

Everything looks good so far. There will be chance to build different training grounds for different bonuses, but what about unique class related upgrades?

[Leferd]

I'm kind of concerned that their may be a balance exploit if using the adventurers hall. Could both idle party members and adventurers hall recruits be used to inflate the body/agent count for your stronghold?