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Dragon Age: Inquisition


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"That said, between ME 2, DA 2, and ME 3, I've come to the conclusion that BioWare has forgotten how to do good endings."

 

ME2's ending was fantastic.

 

 

DA2's ending could have been way better. No doubt about it.

 

This so called BIO 'fanboy' hasn't even finished ME3 so haven't perosnally experienced ME3 ending but what I've seen from the whining is the whining is over the top stupidity.

 

 

Agreed, ME2 had a cool ending and the last mission of the game was just one of the best things ever.  I see where most of the hate comes from about ME3's ending, but I find it to be really exaggerated.  Most people don't like how the choices provided to you at the end are unaffected by all of the choices you've made throughout all three games (which isn't 100% true but close enough).  I for one saw this coming.  

 

 

I'm confused? Are you saying that the choices in the previous ME didn't make a difference in the final outcome of the last game?

 

Yeah, whether you saved Krogans or not, Geth or Quarians, doesn't really matter in the end. You just pick 4 endings with slight variations on it. After the EC there is "Where are they now?" slide a la Black Isle, but it's kinda meh and a bit too late.

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"That said, between ME 2, DA 2, and ME 3, I've come to the conclusion that BioWare has forgotten how to do good endings."

 

ME2's ending was fantastic.

 

 

DA2's ending could have been way better. No doubt about it.

 

This so called BIO 'fanboy' hasn't even finished ME3 so haven't perosnally experienced ME3 ending but what I've seen from the whining is the whining is over the top stupidity.

 

 

Agreed, ME2 had a cool ending and the last mission of the game was just one of the best things ever.  I see where most of the hate comes from about ME3's ending, but I find it to be really exaggerated.  Most people don't like how the choices provided to you at the end are unaffected by all of the choices you've made throughout all three games (which isn't 100% true but close enough).  I for one saw this coming.  

 

 

I'm confused? Are you saying that the choices in the previous ME didn't make a difference in the final outcome of the last game?

 

 

From what I've seen, the complaints stem from the fact that you're always presented with the same four decisions in ME3's ending, regardless of your choices in all of the previous games.  And also, there isn't much closure at all after you've made that choice.

Edited by Rhamnetin

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Saying Dragon Age 2 is the worst recent Bioware RPG is like saying the Ferrari California is the worst Ferrari. It's still a Ferrari; an elite, top-tier, without much competition in today's industry.
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"That said, between ME 2, DA 2, and ME 3, I've come to the conclusion that BioWare has forgotten how to do good endings."

 

ME2's ending was fantastic.

 

 

DA2's ending could have been way better. No doubt about it.

 

This so called BIO 'fanboy' hasn't even finished ME3 so haven't perosnally experienced ME3 ending but what I've seen from the whining is the whining is over the top stupidity.

 

 

Agreed, ME2 had a cool ending and the last mission of the game was just one of the best things ever.  I see where most of the hate comes from about ME3's ending, but I find it to be really exaggerated.  Most people don't like how the choices provided to you at the end are unaffected by all of the choices you've made throughout all three games (which isn't 100% true but close enough).  I for one saw this coming.  

 

 

I'm confused? Are you saying that the choices in the previous ME didn't make a difference in the final outcome of the last game?

 

 

From what I've seen, the complaints stem from the fact that you're always presented with the same four decisions in ME3's ending, regardless of your choices in all of the previous games.  And also, there isn't much closure at all after you've made that choice.

 

 

But I thought you said one of the reasons that The Witcher didn't have real choices and consequences was the fact that that there no differences in the story from whatever choice you made in the previous game? You also said that you considered DA and ME to be good examples of RPG, but now you seem to be saying that ME suffered from the same gameplay design flaw as the Witcher?

 

So I'm confused ?

 

 

:biggrin:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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A return to BG style exploration? I like what I'm hearing. 

 

I prefer that type of exploration to total open world since it offers distinct and discrete areas with their own stories and questlines and little interesting encounters and quests. I tend to wander around and get bored in open world games and stop playing without finishing the main questline, but the BG maps always kept my interest because I knew there would probably be something interesting happening in every map. 

 

Also they seem more earnest and sincere in this video, probably due to lack of marketing buzzwords and I liked that. The further they move away from 'This is the new ****' and 'awesome button', the better. 

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But I thought you said one of the reasons that The Witcher didn't have real choices and consequences was the fact that that there no differences in the story from whatever choice you made in the previous game? You also said that you considered DA and ME to be good examples of RPG, but now you seem to be saying that ME suffered from the same gameplay design flaw as the Witcher?

 

So I'm confused ?

 

 

:biggrin:

 

 

lol, indeed you are confused.  ME3 does take into account all major choices from ME2 and ME1.  Have you played it at all?  

 

As for The Witcher, I call it a semi-RPG and it is this for many reasons.  Regarding its storytelling, it's a lackluster RPG since most choices made in those games have no long term effect, and each game has very little story variation compared to Dragon Age or Mass Effect.  Not to mention the completely one-dimensional character development, that isn't affected by dialogue choices at all.  I'm not even talking about porting saves, but this also does next to nothing in The Witcher.

Edited by Rhamnetin

Save RPGs

 

 

Saying Dragon Age 2 is the worst recent Bioware RPG is like saying the Ferrari California is the worst Ferrari. It's still a Ferrari; an elite, top-tier, without much competition in today's industry.
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I just finished the 3rd DA book, Asunder.  I think it was the best one yet, it was a nice mix of some new characters and some old, and it had a good pace.  Gaider has improved as a writer as he's gone along.  It is still pretty standard fantasy, but there were a few decent surprises mixed in.  Also it seems to be a pretty big stage setter for the 3rd game.

 

I actually thought it was the worst offering.  Gaider seems to be getting better from a technical standpoint, but the subject matter in Asunder bored me to death.  Then again I'm not interested in the DA universe for the mage/chantry plot they're shoving down our throats now.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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But I thought you said one of the reasons that The Witcher didn't have real choices and consequences was the fact that that there no differences in the story from whatever choice you made in the previous game? You also said that you considered DA and ME to be good examples of RPG, but now you seem to be saying that ME suffered from the same gameplay design flaw as the Witcher?

 

So I'm confused ?

 

 

:biggrin:

 

 

lol, indeed you are confused.  ME3 does take into account all major choices from ME2 and ME1.  Have you played it at all?  

 

As for The Witcher, I call it a semi-RPG and it is this for many reasons.  Regarding its storytelling, it's a lackluster RPG since most choices made in those games have no long term effect, and each game has very little story variation compared to Dragon Age or Mass Effect.  Not to mention the completely one-dimensional character development, that isn't affected by dialogue choices at all.  I'm not even talking about porting saves, but this also does next to nothing in The Witcher.

 

 

I did play ME and I enjoyed the series. I wasn't fanatical about the games so I was one of those people who wasn't even that disappointed with the endings presented to Shepard in ME3. I thought they made sense under the circumstances

 

Anyway I am just teasing you about what you said about the Witcher. As I mentioned previously we have to agree to disagree as I consider Witcher to be one of the best RPG  that has ever been released. But end of the day we all have our opinions around what constitutes a good RPG and that's fine :)

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I did play ME and I enjoyed the series. I wasn't fanatical about the games so I was one of those people who wasn't even that disappointed with the endings presented to Shepard in ME3. I thought they made sense under the circumstances

 

Anyway I am just teasing you about what you said about the Witcher. As I mentioned previously we have to agree to disagree as I consider Witcher to be one of the best RPG  that has ever been released. But end of the day we all have our opinions around what constitutes a good RPG and that's fine :)

 

I'm kind of dreading the return of some characters because of ME actually, even though I know they are separate teams I cannot help but feel a little discomfort. Seems like the ME series took everything that the plot of ME1 did right and spent the rest destroying it while calling it character development. Hopefully that won't be the case in DA, kind of wishing that they keep changing the cast in order to avoid this.

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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This so called BIO 'fanboy' hasn't even finished ME3 so haven't personally experienced ME3 ending but what I've seen from the whining is the whining is over the top stupidity.

I found it overblown.

 

People were creating accounts just to post images of them defecating on the game box. There were long threads about how the ending to ME 3 had taken away people's ability to enjoy any game or story. Some people talked about entering major depression and having trouble working or going to school. Some people railed on for months about how BioWare had betrayed them and ruined something they loved.

 

I agree the ending could have been better, but I never realized the level of emotional involvement some people had in the series.

"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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Why are people so concerned about the ending quality?
The entire ME3 story itself is a total cluster**** since they have to rely on a plot hole from the very beginning.

The massive plot hole is, why did the Reapers save Citadel for last?

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A bad ending might keep something from being excellent, but it doesn't make the entire game bad.

A bad ending can ruin the whole experience, at least for me. I've always thought the ending of the game is very important if the game is story driven, it's the culmination point of everything that has happened and affects my overall opinion of the game a great deal. I very rarely, if ever, come back to a game or even remember fondly a game that left me with a "that's it?" feeling.

 

While I personally see ME3 just only slightly worse game than ME2 (which I think is a great game and have played from start to finish about 3 times) I truly can't see myself playing ME3 for second time. Just because the ending was far from what it could, and probably should have been. I just don't see the point to play a story driven game if it ends badly, leaves me with a feeling the whole game was a waste of time.

 

This wasn't a heinous attack against only ME3 btw, games have suffered from bad endings ever since they were invented. NWN2 has one of the worst I've seen.

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I just finished the 3rd DA book, Asunder.  I think it was the best one yet, it was a nice mix of some new characters and some old, and it had a good pace.  Gaider has improved as a writer as he's gone along.  It is still pretty standard fantasy, but there were a few decent surprises mixed in.  Also it seems to be a pretty big stage setter for the 3rd game.

 

I actually thought it was the worst offering.  Gaider seems to be getting better from a technical standpoint, but the subject matter in Asunder bored me to death.  Then again I'm not interested in the DA universe for the mage/chantry plot they're shoving down our throats now.

 

Is David Gaider a better writer than R.A. Salvatore?

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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A bad ending can make something seem worse than the sum of its parts. That's what happened to me with me3.

 

 

 

I just finished the 3rd DA book, Asunder.  I think it was the best one yet, it was a nice mix of some new characters and some old, and it had a good pace.  Gaider has improved as a writer as he's gone along.  It is still pretty standard fantasy, but there were a few decent surprises mixed in.  Also it seems to be a pretty big stage setter for the 3rd game.

 

 

I actually thought it was the worst offering.  Gaider seems to be getting better from a technical standpoint, but the subject matter in Asunder bored me to death.  Then again I'm not interested in the DA universe for the mage/chantry plot they're shoving down our throats now.

Is David Gaider a better writer than R.A. Salvatore?
Probably.
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I just finished the 3rd DA book, Asunder.  I think it was the best one yet, it was a nice mix of some new characters and some old, and it had a good pace.  Gaider has improved as a writer as he's gone along.  It is still pretty standard fantasy, but there were a few decent surprises mixed in.  Also it seems to be a pretty big stage setter for the 3rd game.

 

I actually thought it was the worst offering.  Gaider seems to be getting better from a technical standpoint, but the subject matter in Asunder bored me to death.  Then again I'm not interested in the DA universe for the mage/chantry plot they're shoving down our throats now.

 

Is David Gaider a better writer than R.A. Salvatore?

 

Pro Asunder he was way worse. Asunder is close to Salvatore level, but that isn't a high bar to reach.

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A bad ending might keep something from being excellent, but it doesn't make the entire game bad.

A bad ending can ruin the whole experience, at least for me. I've always thought the ending of the game is very important if the game is story driven, it's the culmination point of everything that has happened and affects my overall opinion of the game a great deal. I very rarely, if ever, come back to a game or even remember fondly a game that left me with a "that's it?" feeling.While I personally see ME3 just only slightly worse game than ME2 (which I think is a great game and have played from start to finish about 3 times) I truly can't see myself playing ME3 for second time. Just because the ending was far from what it could, and probably should have been. I just don't see the point to play a story driven game if it ends badly, leaves me with a feeling the whole game was a waste of time.This wasn't a heinous attack against only ME3 btw, games have suffered from bad endings ever since they were invented. NWN2 has one of the worst I've seen.

I don't think that is necessarily exclusive to endings. Pretty much any very badly done thing can risk ruining the game for some people. Arcanum is unplayable for me due to the terrible system and that fact that technology is inferior in every way to magic.

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...always liked Hickman & Weis, meself...;)

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

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A long, long time ago, but I can still remember,
How the Trolling used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance",
And maybe we'd be happy for a while.
But then Krackhead left and so did Klown;
Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town.
Bad news on the Front Page,
BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage.
I can't remember if I cried
When I heard that TORN was recently fried,
But sadness touched me deep inside,
The day...Black Isle died.


For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way

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