Guns/firearms ?

[zooll]

Hi,

 

I have listed some pictures from the game and it seems that there will be firearms in the game? Please consider this..... there were no firearms in BG series neither in IWD series... Do not make WOW from this game... it has to be true RPG as we know from the world of AD&D, do not ruin it with using stupid guns which totally do not belong to this fantasy world... or can you imagine for example Gandalf killing skuruts with shotgun? How is that??

 

I think that firearms are ruining the true spirit of the game.. How much do I have to pay to remove this feature from the game?

[Jarmo]

How much do I have to pay to remove this feature from the game?

 

A bit over 4 million dollars.

[Sacred_Path]

I'd chip in with another 2m if they remove Elves from the game

[PrimeJunta]

I think another four million bucks might do it. Probably not though.

 

Firearms were in from the first Kickstarter pitch. Cadegund – the armored priestess – was rocking a blunderbuss in the first concept art. The tech level is renaissance minus the printing press. If you don't like it, then P:E isn't the game for you.

[Jarmo]

Don't worry though. I'm confident the firearms are going to blend right in.

Late era plate armor as seen in D&D historically coexisted with early firearms.

 

I'm also pretty sure it won't be like Elven made magic Uzi +2 and it won't be shotguns (or at least not pump action versions).

[Sheikh]

I think in the era where PE takes inspiration from firearms werent very widespread yet.

[Scottfree6000]

Since there black powder in this game, there maybe probability for firebombs

[Scottfree6000]

Sorry for the grammar.

 

I meant

 

Since there is black powder in this game, there maybe a probability for firebombs as well.

[Diagoras]

OP - read almost any of the other threads on this topic before continuing. For example, this section:

 

 

 

Do not make WOW from this game... it has to be true RPG as we know from the world of AD&D, do not ruin it with using stupid guns which totally do not belong to this fantasy world... or can you imagine for example Gandalf killing skuruts with shotgun? How is that??

 

Is so disconnected from everything that it makes it clear you haven't read up on this at all.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

What is a Skurut? And when did Gandalf kill one with anything?

[decado]

Yeah man the OP came outta nowhere lol.  Hey guys I here there's going to be an Auction House in Diablo III, what do I have to do to wrap that up?  Let me know in advance.

Edited June 28, 2013 by decado

[Osvir]

Since there black powder in this game, there maybe probability for firebombs

 

This is something I have wondered for quite a while, with PE being a fantasy setting (with magic)+having some psuedo-fantasy-technology that seems rather "advanced" (The animat factory for instance).

 

What other sorts of "powder" could exist in PE? What can you load your arquebus with? Let's play with the fantasy a little bit, what kind of "ammo" could it allow for in this premise?

 

Could you blast a close-ranged static cloud of dust onto an enemy that shocks them? Sparkles of electricity~ (envision a Blunderbuss going off and all that smoke coming out of it actually forms a "cloud" that deals magical damage or inflicts a magical effect). Weaker than actual magic of course, but could it function like some sort of Single-Shot Tech-Magic? (That still requires long reload times)

 

Could other elements be combined with the powder?

[Jarmo]

  Let's play with the fantasy a little bit, what kind of "ammo" could it allow for in this premise?

 

 

Not going very far into fantasy myself, but silver bullets? Holy silver bullets?

 

And to unnecessarily tie things into old economics/currency discussions,

will a silver bullet cost the extra work of forging a silver coin into a bullet?

So maybe not 10 bullets for 1GP but maybe 5 for 1GP?

[Gfted1]

I think guns and ammo should be treated like bows and arrows and should be enchantable. Maybe the weapons themselves could have "to hit" bonuses and the ammo could offer some flavor like exploding or poison?

[PrimeJunta]

If there are werewolves, there have to be silver bullets. Else I'll be demanding my money back.

[Tsuga C]

Not going very far into fantasy myself, but silver bullets? Holy silver bullets?

 

And to unnecessarily tie things into old economics/currency discussions,

will a silver bullet cost the extra work of forging a silver coin into a bullet?

So maybe not 10 bullets for 1GP but maybe 5 for 1GP?

Fun facts about silver bullets.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Tsuga C

[Semper]

pls do not ruin the forums with your stupid and highly intolerant babbling.

how much do i have to pay to get you kicked outta here?

[radioactivelullaby]

Since there black powder in this game, there maybe probability for firebombs

 

imagine an explosive trap with the black powder... that could be a very lethal trap.

[Woldan]

I've never liked having blackpowder in a medieval game, its just too damn effective. A group of heavily armored knights could be wiped out with a single very primitive yet extremely effective frag grenade (iron ball filled with BP) thrown by a lowly peasant. Its just a gameplay breaker, and its illogical not to have things like bombs, explosive traps and wall guns etc. included when black powder exists.

[PrimeJunta]

@Woldan, uh, as opposed to, say, magic fireballs?

 

Early RL grenades were highly unreliable and troublesome weapons, because of the difficulty of making a reliable fuse. Without that they'd tend to be duds, or explode too late, or go off in your face. I think the renaissance tech level was a great idea; it's underused in fantasy RPG's, and the period had enormous variety in weapons and armor. With magic thrown into the mix and firearms considered specifically as an anti-spellcaster weapon, it gets even more interesting. I'm quite sure that balancing grenades, explosive traps etc. isn't any harder than balancing spells, various soul powers, martial arts, technologies and so on.

[eschaton]

I've never liked having blackpowder in a medieval game, its just too damn effective. A group of heavily armored knights could be wiped out with a single very primitive yet extremely effective frag grenade (iron ball filled with BP) thrown by a lowly peasant. Its just a gameplay breaker, and its illogical not to have things like bombs, explosive traps and wall guns etc. included when black powder exists.

 

But this isn't a medieval game.  The game technology is clearly set at the Early Modern period (1500s-1600s).  And not just due to the use of early firearms - also because of the sophistication of sailing ships, and the proto-colonialism in the world.  The only exception to OTL is the printing press isn't invented yet.  

[Amentep]

What is a Skurut? And when did Gandalf kill one with anything?

 

It is, I believe, the Czech version of an "Uruk-Hai" (Czech: Skurut-Hai)

 

I've never liked having blackpowder in a medieval game, its just too damn effective. A group of heavily armored knights could be wiped out with a single very primitive yet extremely effective frag grenade (iron ball filled with BP) thrown by a lowly peasant. Its just a gameplay breaker, and its illogical not to have things like bombs, explosive traps and wall guns etc. included when black powder exists.

 

I'd imagine that "magic" will minimize the effectiveness of blackpowder in the game.

 

 

@Woldan, uh, as opposed to, say, magic fireballs?

 

Early RL grenades were highly unreliable and troublesome weapons, because of the difficulty of making a reliable fuse. Without that they'd tend to be duds, or explode too late, or go off in your face. I think the renaissance tech level was a great idea; it's underused in fantasy RPG's, and the period had enormous variety in weapons and armor. With magic thrown into the mix and firearms considered specifically as an anti-spellcaster weapon, it gets even more interesting. I'm quite sure that balancing grenades, explosive traps etc. isn't any harder than balancing spells, various soul powers, martial arts, technologies and so on.

 

I think the issue is the availability.  A fireball is a years trained magician, as opposed to some random dude who got a grenade by luck.  Although I guess if anyone could use a magic wand and some random dude found a wand of fireballs (PE Equivilent)....

Edited June 28, 2013 by Amentep

[Jarmo]

I'd suggest explosives and shrapnel shouldn't be very effective against armor.

In game terms, rather than say.. damaga of 6d6, they'd do 6 instances of 1x6.

[Woldan]

Yes, gunpowder is like magic with the only difference that anybody can use it, a child could be a fireball throwing wizard that way. Equip your soldiers with some of those inexpensive and easy to produce grenades and they can break formations and wipe out entire groups of enemies with ease.

 

Early RL grenades were highly unreliable and troublesome weapons, because of the difficulty of making a reliable fuse.

Not really, they were in fact highly reliable and very effective, it was an iron ball with a cavity inside (made of two parts molded together) filled with compressed gun powder, sealed with a lead plug with a hole for the fuse and some wax.
Fuse cords are very reliable and easy to make out of nitrated hemp.

 

I'd suggest explosives and shrapnel shouldn't be very effective against armor.

Gunpowder doesn't discriminate, powerful explosives can rip unarmored people to shreds and squish people in plate mail like tin cans.
Of course the effects can be watered down to balance the game, but I think its better to just leave it out completely instead of having to jump through hoops to make it work. Edited June 28, 2013 by Woldan

[eschaton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there were local, periodic, yet critical shortages of saltpeter until the 19th century (when remote guano islands became accessible), which limited the use of gunpowder weapons to a great extent.  It would be thus easy to deal with this in an in-game mechanic by ensuring that gunpowder was too expensive for a peasant to have access to.  

 

I'm rather hoping there are black powder bombs though.  Hell, the Ultima games even had those.  They would only really be useful as part of a trap - either set by the player or by foes.  Setting up such a trap would be expensive and dicey, and of course you might have a way to disarm it if you run into them in your travels (hella loot as well).