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Update #49: Water, Trees, Day/Night, Lighting... All That Jazz

project eternity josh sawyer

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#361
Lephys

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Easy there, Mudd1. He's simply making suggestions, based on his limited knowledge, that he hopes are helpful. He's interested in the processes at hand, and has know way of knowing what the devs already do or do not know. What's the harm in that, hmm?
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#362
mudd1

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Easy there, Mudd1. He's simply making suggestions, based on his limited knowledge, that he hopes are helpful. He's interested in the processes at hand, and has know way of knowing what the devs already do or do not know. What's the harm in that, hmm?

 

He could just be more humble instead of saying stuff like "shouldn't be hard" and "should be easy enough", and maybe get into less technical detail but instead trust in the developers' professionalism.

 

And regardless of the technical feasibility of his suggestions, as I said, I'd vote for more story and a more painterly quality of the graphics instead of state-of-the-art gadgetry any time.



#363
Lephys

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He could just be more humble instead of saying stuff like "shouldn't be hard" and "should be easy enough", and maybe get into less technical detail but instead trust in the developers' professionalism.

 

And regardless of the technical feasibility of his suggestions, as I said, I'd vote for more story and a more painterly quality of the graphics instead of state-of-the-art gadgetry any time.

 

 

I'm not seeing how phrases such as "it shouldn't be hard" are inherently making him un-humble. He's simply stating that, as far as he knows, he's not suggesting things that are understood throughout the industry to be ludicrously tricky or time-consuming. Simply for what it's worth.

 

Until he says something like "even YOU guys should be able to do it, LOLZ!", there is absolutely no reason to assume a more specific meaning than "to my knowledge, this shouldn't be very difficult to do, which I'm telling you in the event that you didn't already know that."

 

And regardless of how much non-technical stuff you'd vote for, the entire game is built out of "technical stuff," The art team can create their painterly quality all day long, and the "technical stuff" has to make sure it maintains integrity throughout things like lighting and other dynamic factors. Not to mention that I'm sure the dev team is more than capable of deciding what is and isn't detrimental to the integrity of their art team's work, regarding game engine techniques.

 

It's not as if Frenetic Pony is urging thousands of backers to sign a petition to be sent directly to Obsidian that demands that all the resources from the art team be redirected to the technical team. So, again... no need to assume things and get upset over sheer speculation. I encourage you not to be so concerned about harmless suggestions, for what they're worth.



#364
mudd1

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And regardless of how much non-technical stuff you'd vote for, the entire game is built out of "technical stuff," The art team can create their painterly quality all day long, and the "technical stuff" has to make sure it maintains integrity throughout things like lighting and other dynamic factors. Not to mention that I'm sure the dev team is more than capable of deciding what is and isn't detrimental to the integrity of their art team's work, regarding game engine techniques.

 

 

Well, the more lighting you do automatically, the less the artists do it.

 

And his suggestions were very extensive and detailed. They went far beyond "why don't you make the shadows follow the sun" or something. And some phrases like "correct me if I'm wrong" or "I'm no expert on the matter but maybe you can ..." would also have gone a long way.

 

But to be honest, his behaviour annoyed me enough to register an account and write an angry post but it's not important enough to discuss this to no end. So let's just say that it annoyed me but didn't bother you. That's ok.



#365
Lephys

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But to be honest, his behaviour annoyed me enough to register an account and write an angry post but it's not important enough to discuss this to no end. So let's just say that it annoyed me but didn't bother you. That's ok.


Well, to be honest, your behavior was enough to cause me to use my already-created account and write an inquisitive post as to the nature of your behavior, as it seemed (and still seems) quite unwarranted.

A lack of assumption as to the tone of his simple, text-only suggestions based upon his limited knowledge would also have gone a long way.

*shrug*
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#366
Hassat Hunter

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Well, I was waaay back on Kickstarter, but the whole item-debacle made me catch up (also having time helps :))

And I have to say, it looks beatiful. Certainly takes me back to when games look good. And not fake-good like The Witcher II where everything's super-high definition but it all feels stale due to it's art direction being lack-luster and generic. Hope it keeps up throughout the game and we get the beatiful areas we all know and love from BG2, PS:T or IWD.
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#367
Dark_Ansem

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This is an old thread, but I have to ask: why were all those nice interactive, alive-feel, animated features like the animated grass, removed from the beta?


Edited by Dark_Ansem, 02 November 2014 - 12:03 AM.

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#368
samm

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Maybe because they were actually neither interactive nor alive-feel: Too much negative feedback about rotating leaf patch textures and grass animations, that don't seem motivated by wind (they just randomly swayed) and that also don't react to characters walking through.



#369
Dark_Ansem

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so instead of improving them they were deleted?


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#370
Quantics

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They probably realised that they couldn't be improved with the current system and/or would take up too much time to implement.



#371
Dark_Ansem

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perhaps with Unity 5 then?



#372
Naurgalen

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And how is foliage "not moving at all" while other things are being moved by the wind (fallen leafs, water etc...) more immersive? It has no sense.



#373
Lephys

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Fallen leafs are totally foliage. 8P

But I get what you're saying, :)

#374
John Forseti

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And how is foliage "not moving at all" while other things are being moved by the wind (fallen leafs, water etc...) more immersive? It has no sense.

 

I havent seen anything from the beta so I cant comment on that specifically but sometimes moving closer to the thing in a simulation of the thing actually spoils the effect more than the abstraction that was there before hand, the uncanny valley doesn't just apply to faces.



#375
Dark_Ansem

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what do you mean?



#376
PillarsofEternity

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so instead of improving them they were deleted?

 

They probably have reasons why they are not included, but I agree with your sentiment. Frankly it's not good enough. The game looks so static and feels dead. It is actually kind of painful to look at at times. The video in update 49 showed a glimpse of what was possible, but watching the game in motion now it feels as if the last 2 years their only goal was to make the game look worse.

 

Yeah, they have other things to do: gameplay, story, world building, etc. That's all fine and dandy. Occasional animations on trees and shrubs should not have been cut under any circumstance. 

 

It's good to see that other people such as yourself are equally disappointed with what has transpired. 



#377
Quetzalcoatl

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And how is foliage "not moving at all" while other things are being moved by the wind (fallen leafs, water etc...) more immersive?

It isn't, but that's not really the point. Animating moving water and falling leaves takes little effort (since they're 3d), whereas getting nice-looking animations for the 2d stuff obviously proved too difficult.


Edited by Quetzalcoatl, 05 December 2014 - 02:02 PM.

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#378
HetMasteen

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That's the sort of thing that can be improved upon post-release and modded/patched in. It isn't vital to the core of the game. It's fluff. Fluff can be amazing, but it should never be the priority. It isn't what makes or breaks the experience.


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