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Osvir

Eternity+Numenera References/Interaction?

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Something that started here:



Sounds very healthy for both games. I'm hoping for some dimensional references between both games.

Such as a crazy person who is terrorized by inner demons or whatnot in Eternity, but in Numenera there is an evil mastermind demon that is pulling the strings into some abyssmal rift. Of course if you only play 1 game (let's say Eternity in this case) you'd be seeing a crazy person, but if you play both games it might be more clear about their relation.
[Original. Read BruceVC's quote below for more consistency]

Perhaps not core story stuff, but side story definately. Gods can make cameo's, characters, monsters, concepts, ideas etc. etc.

If both games use the same engine (the developers create an awesome engine together) there could even be an area that is used in both games, not to mention assets from both games. "The Fade" type of thing. Best way to explain it: I play Numenera, get to this "The Fade" area~do my stuff there, get back into the game. When I play Eternity, I get to this "The Fade" area and instantly "Oh ****! I've been here in Numenera!" and it gets suddenly (in my own opinion) so much more awesome on so many levels. One level of awesomeness would be to be able to leave something in this area and then be able to find it in the other game   o:)

 

 

 

Sounds very healthy for both games. I'm hoping for some dimensional references between both games.

Such as a crazy person who is terrorized by inner demons or whatnot in Eternity, but in Numenera there is an evil mastermind demon that is pulling the strings into some abyssmal rift. Of course if you only play 1 game (let's say Eternity in this case) you'd be seeing a crazy person, but if you play both games it might be more clear about their relation.
 

 

Thats an ingenious idea, there could be some synergy. Not too much but some links. A good example could be a some kind of Demon cult in PE but the actual Demon lives in Numenera


Adding another idea for dimensional stuff:
- You find a sword without a blade in Eternity, it is a key for some door. Nothing really special about it, it's a key.
- In Numenera a Blade appears from nowhere during some side-mission sequence and stabs some guy/thing in the back. Direct reference.

What do you think?

What I mean with "The Fade" is this:
NumeneraampEternityTheLink_zpsf3e5a015.j

More ideas are things like... mirror characters, one is Corrupted in Eternity, the other is Pure in Numenera, but it is clear (if you play both games) that they are the same character! They could be different "perspectives" of different characters. Mirrors.

EDIT: Discussion thread over at Numenera Forums. What do you, Eternity fans/developers, feel about this sort of relationship?

Edited by Osvir
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As I mentioned I think this has huge potential and offers something unique that I haven't seen before in any RPG.

 

I'm not sure if the developers should implement direct related quests, in other words lets use your example about the sword. If you are only playing one game and the other at a much later  time period, maybe a few months later, certain things might not make sense when they are related to something in the other game. But general associations would work. One example could be a certain powerful person in PE who gets kill by your party but then ascends to the world of Numenera. This entity could rant and rave how he was betrayed in his home world and have certain ambitions based on vengeance

 

I would like to hear other suggestions between the worlds as there so many ways to implement the links between the worlds. Its exciting :dancing:

Edited by BruceVC
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I'm sorry, but this is a terrible idea. Numenera's science fantasy simply doesn't mix well with PE's worldview. It would be a total moodkiller.

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Let's take BruceVC's Demon and Demon Cult concept.


Elaborate how that could/would be a moodkiller.

EDIT:  

This is not Warcraft in space.


*does not comprehend this statement*
Edited by Osvir

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I'm sorry, but this is a terrible idea. Numenera's science fantasy simply doesn't mix well with PE's worldview. It would be a total moodkiller.

 

 

This is not Warcraft in space.

 

 

So you can't conceive that PE could be a world or have a link to Numenera? Granted I know  little about the Numenera universe but I see there are elements of fantasy and associations to fantasy realms.  Also did you read what we said. Who said anything about WOW in space, we are talking about the exchange of lore, people, monsters and idea's between the 2 games. I fail to see how that can't be possible.

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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Let's take BruceVC's Demon and Demon Cult concept.

 

Elaborate how that could/would be a moodkiller.

 

If he could get there, some sort of connection must exist between the two worlds. Which implies that either the whole soul and magic stuff has a scientific explanation, which kind of kills the sense of wonder in PE, or that magic is real in Numenera, which goes against the established principles of the world.

 

The only explanation that could work IMO is that some sort of entertainment AI created a simulacrum of a character in a video game from an earlier age, and you're actually fighting this simulacrum. Which is actually a pretty cool idea :)

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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I can think of 3 links that physically ties these games, and if I give it some more thought I can come up with more:

* Eternity < Avellone > Numenera

* Game < Developer > Game
* Dimension < Portal > Dimension

The possibilites are, regardless, near limitless to how a relationship like this could work in terms of psuedo-science.

EDIT:

A more concrete example:
Post #9 < Link > Post #10

Edited by Osvir

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Sorry that is was wrong (I linked Post 9 with 8 at first), cus that link only goes "one way" (it does go both ways but it is convulated, Post 9 comes after Post 8 ).

Gets easier to explain like this:
Post #10 < Link > Post #9

Edited by Osvir

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I don't like this idea, except for the odd -- very odd and very subtle! -- in-joke, maybe. "Property of Mourns-for-trees" on a bottle of razorvine extract in IWD is borderline OK; visiting a shared location... no. Just... no. 

 

The problem is that the two universes are metaphysically incompatible. P:E's universe is all about souls and the transmigration thereof; Numenéra is grounded in Clarkian "technology so advanced it's indistinguishable from magic." Monte Cook explicitly rejects magic as magic in Numenéra; it's all hyper-advanced tech that looks like magic. So the only way to combine the two would be to declare that P:E's magic, souls, and gods are all just hyper-advanced tech too, it's just that the people in P:E don't realize it. That cheapens the whole setting IMO. 

 

An even cheaper trick would be to go with a D&D:ian multiverse. Don't like that either.

 

So -1 on this idea from me. Keep 'em coming though.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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If it is done then i'd prefer it be subtle and hinted at rather than outright stated, such as the various madmens allusions in Spellhold, or the branchings of Ravel that we see in both Icewind Dale games, self referential flourishes rather than blatant brush strokes. That's my personal opinion however.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Subtility, for sure. That was the entire thing I was trying to convey with the Fireball that I posted over at the Numenera forums.

I wrote it out like it was cast over at Numenera, but it manifested in these forums. If you look at Numenera's thread that I posted (objectively) you'll only see the spell being cast, and if you look at this thread you will see the Fireball. Looking at the Fireball here only, it makes no sense. Looking at it over at Numenera it makes no sense either. But looking at the whole picture, both of them, it suddenly makes sense. Why? It connects and because that's how I designed it. That's the explanation, and the catalyst and creator or "guide" was me. In the same way that Avellone or Ziets can be guides for the exact same thing with different context.

Example 1: Action into Consequence
(A) Context/Dimension/Numenera A: Fireball is being cast... chanted really. It wouldn't have any effect. It doesn't appear.
© [unexplainable Black Hole Dimension]: Passes through the Borderless Borders.
(B) Context/Dimension/Eternity: Fireball appears.


Example 2: Mirror-effect and Yin/Yang
(A) Context/Dimension/Numenera: Bakkuba is an insane person.
© [unexplainable Black Hole Dimension)
(B) Context/Dimension/Eternity: Bakkuba is a sane person.

Let's turn it around with the demon cult. There's a crazy occult Demon Cult in Numenera, they are praying to what everyone thinks is just crazy fables and dumb stuff, but in Eternity a Demon exists that is a direct reference to the prayers. By the suspense of "belief" that it is being summoned, the projection is being summoned into "The Link". But it never appears within Numenera, which could be something the Player AND the Demon Cult themselves could question "Hey... Hey!! We have been chanting this stuff and nothing is happening! Why do we believe? What is the purpose? What is the meaning of life?" etc. etc. they don't even know if it works, they simply blindly "believe" in ignorance.

The Demon doesn't question its existence it simply is because of the prayers, it wouldn't know that it exists because of that. In Numenera no one would know that the Demon exists and it would never transcend the "Border", it simply exists on the other side of the "Border".

"The Link" is both a Border/Wall & a Connector.

EDIT: One more take at the demon stuff. It would have to harmonize with both world's by themselves, but could be linked at the same time.

You play Numenera: You meet Demon Cult, they are viewed as crazy-folk. They fit into the Numenera world by themselves and harmonize with that world as it is.

You play Eternity: You meet Demon, it is powerful, you take it down (or befriend it? Whatever). It fits into the Eternity world and harmonize with that world as it is, and is presumed to be summoned by the effort of demon summoners in Eternity (they could summon from "The Link" that the Numenera Cult has projected into "The Link").

You play both games: "Awesome!" in my opinion. But that's only my opinion.

Furthermore, it gets subtle and makes little sense, for the whole of the concept if only 1 game is played (makes sense within the 1 game), and if you play both games it does get more apparent, for the whole of the concept. That goes for in-jokes as well.

1. Numenera (= Demon Cult makes sense in Numenera)
2. Eternity (= Demon makes sense in Eternity)
3. The Unity (= Demon Cult+Demon makes sense in Unity)

Edited by Osvir
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Aaah, what I meant with fireball being subtle is...

99.9% of both games is -not fireball-, 0.1% of the game is -fireball-. It gets subtle with the whole picture in mind.

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Easter Egg(s) - fine, but any actual concrete connection is problematic, as it risks hamstringing the creation of both worlds into having to have overlap with each other.  The only way to do this well would be if they had both been designed from the ground up to mesh together, but as they haven't I'd rather that they steered clear.

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Subtle connections are fine - make it too big and you start to create problems. If it's subtle it doesn't need to be explained fully, and the ambiguity becomes part of the enjoyment for the kind of fans who like to work out the lore. If it's extensive then the compatibility between the two different games needs a lot more work, inconsistencies become a flaw, and of course, risks having people who don't play both games say 'huh?'. GIven that P:E is intended to become a franchise, P:E can work with its own leftover strands and characters as well in the future. 

 

A wacky person that is kind of plane-touched, and his story remains ambiguous but seems to clearly hint at an experience of Numenera, for example, would be just fine. 

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As a few other people have stated, an allusion to some connection would be fine, but I don't want to see overt connections.  It should at most be something, when encountered, that makes the astute player pause, scratch their head and mutter to themselves, "wait ... what was that?" with no proof of the crossover ever existing.

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The demi-plane of stretch goals; also known as Pilates, the plane of optimistic expectations...


"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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2 more thoughts that's related to this thread:

#1. The most important one. Companionship. So the joke is about some friends taking a walk some years ago and this "thing" about Companionship starts cracking the friends up and they burst out in laughter. Later, one of the friends make a dubstep song about it, which this song is a tribute to. Just felt like sharing it :)

 

 

 

@Silik: It is a valid point and I am not disrespecting. I am being truthfully sincere. What I am advocating for is a belief that both could be in harmony with themselves and follow their own paths, and at the same time be in harmony with one another in the "mystical". A synergy that binds them together in the perhaps mundane, but a strong relationship in its "Soul" & "Heart". Come Unity with Community.

Following that; it is one of the reasons why I made this "Link" between the Eternity forums and these Numenera forums... is to ultimately advocate for world peace. Silly perhaps, but that's what I, as a person and individual in the real global world, thought of when I made it :)

Let's be friends! Regardless of the idea.

Peace, Love & Hugs <3

 

Source to the Numenera thread is in the OP. Siilk wrote a great & reasonable response :)

#2. People asked quite some time ago about "Lovecraftian" stuff in P:E, I wouldn't know too much about it but I get it that Cthulhu and everything else is up for grabs and anyone can use it in any of their works. I am flirting a little bit with "Why Lovecraft when there's an opportunity for something entirely new?". I know that it is already established stuff that gets a lot of endorsement across the internet. The question I am begging to get answered (figuratively) is in essence: "What about some entirely new stuff?".

The opportunity exists now for Avellone and Ziets to mark both of the games with cool content that could overlap, and furthermore perhaps even into the future (like Lovecraft). Instead of (example!) Cthulhu references in Eternity and possibly Numenera, how about some Avellone+Ziets references? Granted that they would find something like that interesting and not pressuring.

Edited by Osvir

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I'm against having any material story connections between the two games, on the the other hand it would be interesting to have thematical connections.

 

For example, a character in PE could be the complete polar opposite of a character in Numenera, and so on. Characters could also be identical, yet under different circumstances. A side-quest could explore the same issue through two angles. All of this would increase the value of playing both games without making references banal and too obvious.

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"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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I'm against having any material story connections between the two games, on the the other hand it would be interesting to have thematical connections.

 

For example, a character in PE could be the complete polar opposite of a character in Numenera, and so on. Characters could also be identical, yet under different circumstances. A side-quest could explore the same issue through two angles. All of this would increase the value of playing both games without making references banal and too obvious.

for example have a good and honest guard captain in one game, then use the same character model as a corrupt guard captain in the other to see who spots it or have a landscape picture hanging on a wall in one game that depicts an area of the other. subtle things like that are fine but not direct references of interaction between the 2 game worlds

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The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

-Teknoman2-

What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born!


We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

Modern democracy is: the sheep voting for which dog will be the shepherd's right hand.

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^That as well.

That's the type of "Link" I am talking about. And although it is debatable, I think the Demon Cult and Demon fall into that category as well in the same way as the:

- Painting in Numenera
- Area in Eternity

It's the same thing, in my perspective of how I am viewing this idea.

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Honestly, there are two reasons why I'd be against this. First, I simply don't trust inXile enough to blindly buy into what they're proposing with Torment. It is ambitious, and I hope it turns out well, but I'll wait until the game is already made before I decide on that.

Secondly, P:E and the world they want to build is fundamentally incompatible with Numenera. Unless one wants to remove magic from P:E and make it science, which I feel would not only cheapen the setting, but destroy it, the two games and their settings cannot coexist. Thematic references are one thing, the same way there was a dude in power armor in Arcanum who was now refused entry to the magical city in the Vendigroth Wastes is an obvious reference to Fallout, but more than Easter eggs and in-jokes, and P:E is compromised. 

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