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Might & Magic X Teased by Ubisoft, To Be Revealed at PAX East


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Yeah, I read a few comments about people complaining the developer didn't implement all the improvements the early access folks brought up.  I guess that is the risk you run with a paid beta, but some people are really unrealistic about what they think a developer can pull off in a certain timeframe.

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Yeah, I read a few comments about people complaining the developer didn't implement all the improvements the early access folks brought up.  I guess that is the risk you run with a paid beta, but some people are really unrealistic about what they think a developer can pull off in a certain timeframe.

I think it's a lot of unfamiliarity with the complexities of development. It can be easy to say, and even logically conclude, that a particular feature may be easy to implement, but that often isn't the case. Sometimes things are a lot easier than expected, but often they are more complicated than expected. And that's from the people more familiar with the actual code base.

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Had a bit of a tough time last session, found myself completely stuck twice to the point of having to cheat and look up a walkthrough, and both times for very similar reasons. Found myself at a point in the game where I literally couldn't find a single thing to do without getting either the water or air blessings, to the point I randomly did the Tower of Enigma in the hope that it'd unlock the next bit (no such luck, without a freemage it seems completely optional content), and the puzzles therein gave me a bit of a headache.

 

Turns out I didn't properly clear out the Lost City. I was absolutely convinced I had, but I think what happened is that my bags got filled and I left it almost complete and forgot to go back, probably distracted by a break in session or something. Then after doing all the stuff that opened up, got totally stuck again. And again it was because of a shard I had overlooked in a place I thought I had completely cleared (and I was fully convinced this time).

 

It's a timely reminder I guess, that as good as nostalgia can be, there's a good reason we've moved forward in many areas. Wasting hours because of missing one single tile might qualify as classic gameplay, but is probably something I could live without.

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I'm having an issue where as soon as I leave a city I'm put into combat and can't interact with anything and my previous save is about an hour or so earlier and I don't feel like replaying that at the moment

That sucks.  Which city?

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Any city

 

I'm in Seahaven so I took the caravan to Sorpigal I got the same thing. If I teleport to Karthal it's also the same and even if I take a ship to the Crag from there

 

EDIT: I'm fine in the cities and moving between the cities

Edited by ShadySands

Free games updated 3/4/21

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Any city

 

I'm in Seahaven so I took the caravan to Sorpigal I got the same thing. If I teleport to Karthal it's also the same and even if I take a ship to the Crag from there

 

EDIT: I'm fine in the cities and moving between the cities

Weird.  Maybe it's a bug with fast travel?  I've never used fast travel.  I'll take a look over at the game's forums to see if something like this has been reported.

 

As for my own game, I made it inside Karthal.  The sewers were pretty easy, as was the mansion, at least the first floor.  I haven't headed up to the second floor yet as I had a worn weapon on my defender I wanted to fix in town, then got sidetracked doing other stuff.

Edited by Keyrock

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I'm having an issue where as soon as I leave a city I'm put into combat and can't interact with anything and my previous save is about an hour or so earlier and I don't feel like replaying that at the moment

 

I believe there are two bugs at work. One is that monsters sometimes get respawned when you use fast travel, especially with the spirit beacon spell. The other bug is that if you kill a respawned boss creature and then spirit beacon away, the boss creature will respawn and aggro you as soon as you get into the world map. This happened to me once where the minotaur boss near Karthal respawned and I fixed it by going back to the minotaur boss and killing it again. So find the boss monster you fought on the world map before you used spirit beacon. If it has respawned then kill it and that should fix the bug.

Edited by Giantevilhead
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Thanks for the info

 

I think it would be easier to just clear Wyslin Forest again than to try to figure out what has me aggroed since I don't think I've come across any respawns

 

I did have another "kind of bug" yesterday when I killed a floaty moster (facehugger?) boss over some non-passable terrain and my pack was full so I lost out on whatever loot it may have had

 

I may just wait for some patches before diving back in

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Yeah, Spirit Beacon is a trap, invites all sorts of bugs. Bizarrely there's a sticky thread called ETA 31/01 that you'd think would be in reference to a patch, but, a) there's no reference to actually releasing anything in the topic, and b) that date has passed. Weirdness.

 

Some bugs of my own: a couple CTDs yesterday after a week of more or less fully stable operation. Eh. Also a bug after zoning that disabled all my movement and actions but left UI features accessible. And one where some buff icons started refusing to appear - i.e. I cast a spell, the combat log tells me it's applied, but no icon ....but only for some spells, or maybe all spells cast by one character. Being a very hot weekend here, the heat issue is coming to the fore too, my PC case feels like it's been left out in the sun, there's definitely some kind of rogue rendering or whatever going on here - indeed like Starcraft 2's famous uncapped menu screen, there are a few reports of borderline-adequately cooled machines or worse sustaining some sort of damage.

 

 

I'm getting pretty close to the end, and have to say that the charm is kinda wearing off by this point. Just mazes of single tile width paths with monsters and dungeons and lots of dead ends with nothing in them, no cities or anything else interesting. And as a consequence the game is becoming a bit of inventory management hell - a lot more useless drops paired with long treks back to town to get rid of them. In the early mid-game I was definitely planning another playthrough at some point, now that's very unlikely.

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The spirit beacon bug might actually be useful since the monsters don't respawn by themselves so there's a limited amount of experience in the game, not to mention a limited amount of items/gold.

 

I finished the game, did all the quests I could find except for two, abused the respawn bug to kill a lot of respawned monsters (including three or four bosses), and I had the experience bonus NPC with me for like half the game, but I still only ended up at level 38. I don't think it's actually possible to get the level 40 achievement before DLC's get released without cheating.

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I like it so far, but getting around is getting annoying now especially with the long load times. Why not have an unlimited  number of gates or fast travel to the entrance of any region. 

There's also too much loot. I've got more gold than I could spend in two games and my mages are guzzling up loads of big mana potions on every quest. 

 

Normal difficulty is too easy and hard is too hard. Seems like they could have tweaked it to 4 difficulty levels without too much hassle. 

Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

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For the last couple of days I've been replaying Might & Magic 6. I bought all the M&M cheaply at gog.com I tried to take a look at earlier titles, but controls and graphics was just too much (mostly awful controls by today's standards). M&M 6 is the first where I can actually play and enjoy the game again.

 

I like its system. Day/Night, week day, month - all relevant for various interactions with NPCs/locations The free travel (no grid) is also quite good, because once you see the combat starting, you just enter turn base mode to do your fights. It's much more challenging than M&M X, because you are not limited to grids and 3 small enemies per grid (or 2 mediums or one large). You can have 10+ enemies whacking at you from the front alone. Ranged combat is there viable, as combat start at greater distances, and it sometimes take the enemy like 8-10 turns to reach you, and some enemies can be one shot by a good archer from very far distances.

 

I'd love to have next M&M title going more into direction of M&M 6 - 7 system. I really do hope that they will keep doing these kind of games. They are too much fun to pass by. 1 title every 3 years would be super cool if they can keep adding some content to the earlier release. Hell I want them to go back into the cycle and story intertwining with HoM&M series... this M&M X title is a good start (closes up some narratives, yet introduces a new potential key character)

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Holy smokes, in the confusing as heck labyrinth category, The Crag ain't got nothin' on the Karthal Slums.  :blink:

 

I do like hot Karthal looks and feels like a proper city.  A big, sprawling, takes a long time to walk from one end to the other, city, rather than a glorified village labeled as a "city".  Next up, I'm going to take a stab (pun intended) at the Marauder promotion quest.

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I finished the game and my feelings are really mixed. The game starts out pretty good and keeps getting better when the world opens up to you after Act 1. I liked exploring the world map, finding dungeons, getting better loot, leveling up my characters. I also like how the characters level and the way the different classes can compliment each other. It plateaus around Act 2 and Act 3 when you've explored a good portion of the world. Then it goes downward after that when the novelty of exploration wears off and you see more and more of the cracks in the game. Things get much worse by the end when you get herded into the extremely linear Act 4.

 

My biggest complaint is that this game is just not finished. It's not just the bugs, which are annoying but hasn't hurt my enjoyment of the game that much. I think they probably took out a lot of stuff for a DLC. The Limbo Dungeon is not in the game even though there's an achievement for completing it. I don't think it's possible to reach level 40, unless maybe you have one character do all the killing blows to earn the extra experience. There are no monsters who can curse your characters or put them to sleep so the spells that remove curse and sleep are useless. The high level gear, like master level weapons, are extremely rare and almost never get dropped until near the very end of the game when you're not going to get much use out of them anyway.

 

Also, I don't like how they shoved the lore and story into the game. The story in the old Might and Magic games weren't the greatest but they were straightforward and unobtrusive. You can quickly learn what the heck was going on without having to know too much and if you're not interested, they don't shove it in your face. The lore and story in the new Ubisoft M&M universe is really poorly written and confusing. They're trying to make it a Game of Thrones/A Son of Fire and Ice type story but the characters aren't developed well and they constantly bring up complex ideas and lore without sufficient explanation. Heck, the whole intro to this game was a convoluted mess.

 

 

For the last couple of days I've been replaying Might & Magic 6. I bought all the M&M cheaply at gog.com I tried to take a look at earlier titles, but controls and graphics was just too much (mostly awful controls by today's standards). M&M 6 is the first where I can actually play and enjoy the game again.

 

I like its system. Day/Night, week day, month - all relevant for various interactions with NPCs/locations The free travel (no grid) is also quite good, because once you see the combat starting, you just enter turn base mode to do your fights. It's much more challenging than M&M X, because you are not limited to grids and 3 small enemies per grid (or 2 mediums or one large). You can have 10+ enemies whacking at you from the front alone. Ranged combat is there viable, as combat start at greater distances, and it sometimes take the enemy like 8-10 turns to reach you, and some enemies can be one shot by a good archer from very far distances.

 

I'd love to have next M&M title going more into direction of M&M 6 - 7 system. I really do hope that they will keep doing these kind of games. They are too much fun to pass by. 1 title every 3 years would be super cool if they can keep adding some content to the earlier release. Hell I want them to go back into the cycle and story intertwining with HoM&M series... this M&M X title is a good start (closes up some narratives, yet introduces a new potential key character)

 

I believe M&M 6 also had a simple weather system, or it might have been M&M 7. Sometimes there would be things like fog, which was a nice touch.

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Haven't encountered sleep, but have been cursed a number of times, though admittedly nowhere near as often as other effects. Also ridiculously unfair that they can stun you for five rounds and you can only stun them for one, but on the other hand, Burning Determination is ridiculously powerful and the AI isn't smart enough to notice that you're immune to things. I haven't finished the game yet but feel the same way you do about the closing stages, at any rate.

 

 

MM6.... ah, MM6. Where ranged combat wasn't just viable, it was necessary. And where the optimal combat technique was to stay in real time and hold down the 'A' for attack key while constantly backpedalling. (Unlike in MM7/8, you can't move in turn-based mode in this game, making it strictly inferior)

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What creature cursed you? I finished the game and have every monster in the bestiary but I've never had anything curse or use a sleep effect on me.

 

Also, I don't think I've had any uses for the fire, light, or shadow blessings from the elemental forge. Maybe I used them once or twice but not enough to notice.

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Also, I don't think I've had any uses for the fire, light, or shadow blessings from the elemental forge. Maybe I used them once or twice but not enough to notice.

 

They are passive blessings. Resistances (relative to the blessing) and abilities (spot traps, spot secrets, and spot enemies earlier) that are always on.

 

I mean, the place is chock full of things your party uses them on.

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Don't remember what monsters use curse, but I definitely cast the Light magic remove curse spell at various points. Not often though, not even sure it'd be double digits.

 

 

And yeah, shadow blessing is pretty great in that it finally stops the tedium of, if you have a Freemage, casting the detect secrets spell every few dozen steps, or otherwise from having to cart around the dog NPC. That said, I'd grown attached to the dog so I still have it after gaining the blessing... But yeah, both the need for some sort of special NPC/spell/blessing to even see a secret, let alone attempt to get past it, added to the dumb decision to only let one class even access Dark magic, is a disappointing design.

 

Buff maintenance in general is a tedious aspect in any RPG with it, and is something I'd be delighted to see consigned to the dustbins of history. It's not in any way an interesting decision, it's just busywork. An exception can be made for powerful short-duration buffs with limited usage that you can use tactically, but something used permanently may as well be a passive feature.

 

But I digress. Where was I? Traps, eh, there's what, maybe two rooms in the entire game where you need to detect traps in the first place? Fire blessing is a mixed bag, it's useful to be able to tell where exactly enemies behind a corner are, but the increased detection range gives annoying false positives about monsters in an area.

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@Giantevilhead

 

Yeah there are some minor weather effects, like fog in the morning in M&M6

 

On my preference note, I'd like to see a mixture of features from the earlier M&Ms and the Legacy.

 

I like various special combat moves from the X (taunt, sunder, point blank shot, etc), but I like for example special effects on various spells when you level up your proficiency in magics schools.

 

I'd like to see more of a free movement on the map, with inclusion of flight, yet I'd also like the TB combat system with ability to move during it.

 

I like the leveling system of the latest M&M, but the journal system with things called auto-log, could be adopted from previous M&M games.

 

I like the day/night/weekday/month cycle from the older games and how their influenced some fast travel options and opening hours of various shops, etc.

 

One thing that the game could use, is formation. I am not sure which game had it, but I saw in some grid based crawler ability to form a square formation, so when you would face something from the front, the 2 front guys would have significantly higher chance of drawing aggro than the heroes behind them. It is particularly annoying, when for the very long time you have to focus mainly on keeping your low HP, low armor class caster alive instead of using the skills and spells. I think that it was as early implemented as the "Eye of the Beholder", where the back row would have to use long reach weapon to hit in melee or use thrown/other projectile weapons and spells

Edited by Darkpriest
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Semi-responses, semi-ramblings on various points above:

 

- A formation system, unless it allows for custom formations, tends to restrict your options of class/role though. Want three or four melee characters? Too bad. A lesser concern is that it would largely obsolete the challenge/taunt thing they have going (a reasonable design with a mediocre implementation in this game).

 

- Individual spells should scale with your character in all cases, yes - at the moment some spells and spell schools are marginalised by non-scaling, such as Dark Magic where essentially all you want is just to advance far enough to get the important spells and no further (and by that I mean, for the most part, Sleep). I mean, even if some things can't practicably scale linearly with spell power, they should still scale with mastery. Have Sleep last two turns with Master and be an area-effect with Grandmastery for instance (not nearly as overpowered as it sounds like given the three-enemy-per-tile limit and given that one has to be woken by attacking it anyway.

 

- In general I do feel the magic system in the game was built pretty slapdash. Every man and his dog can learn Air Magic, Water Magic is restricted to specialists (indeed only three of them), and of course the whole Dark Magic problem.

 

- The time passage system bothers me, both in this game and in prior ones. It might supposedly add 'flavour' if some things can only be done on certain days, but in the context of a video game, that just means waiting/resting in front of said interactable thing until it becomes available. (Talking about things like fast travel in the older games, and praying at the shrines in the current iteration).

 

- The other thing is the night and day cycle. I'm not inherently against it, but feel the implementation in this game tended to magnify the worst aspects of this kind of design. There's no option to wait, even if it doesn't count as rest, in smaller time increments, nor any option to wait until specific points in the day (i.e. dawn). I do feel 12/12 hour split between night and day also throws away too much of the average day, especially since the dawn and dusk lighting is attached to the day cycle, diminishing it further while leaving the 12 hours of night completely static darkness. Let's just pretend it's summer all year long and line up the 'properly night' period with the required rest period. It'd also make any proposed NPC/shop availability restrictions far less annoying.

 

- Final comment on the night thing - the various torch/flashlight type are useless during the night as they don't do anything to improve visibility as far as I can see. It appears they're designed such that they, instead of actually lighting stuff, just change the static lighting model in levels (i.e. dungeons) specifically flagged to be dark - i.e. it's merely a tool to flip from 'dark dungeon' mode to 'bright dungeon' mode in that subset of dungeons that support it.

 

 

P.S. Random comment that doesn't really fit anywhere: I avoided using fast travel for most of the early-to-midgame because of the stated cost of 150g per passenger. It turns out it's actually the flat cost for your entire party. So yeah, 150g per trip, not 600g. I probably should have tested that earlier.

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I assumed that if formations would be implemented, it could have been improved upon, by adding custom formations in a 9 point grid

 

123

456

789

 

The skills could still be useful, as taunt would affect for example all sides of the grid, etc. The grid system has its pros and cons, same as free movement system. Grid allows for more tactical placement, while free movement added more angles of engagement, but it had some issues as well, especially in M&M6-9 it was making ranged combat superior by simple backpedaling.

 

I am on the fence here, free movement allows for things like flight and larger angles of engagement, but grid allows for more tactical challenges. Perhaps going grid is better, but then I'd like to see farther distances of initiation and some more balance tweaks to ranged combat when compared to the current iteration.

 

The power balance of spells in M&M 6 surprised me. first of all mana potions are scarce and not so potent. 2nd, their dmg scales by number of dice rolls per ability points and other various effects depending on mastery level. I also liked the different initiative values based on speed and recovery. so for example some of your characters would have two or even three moves while enemy would have one, and that also was going other way around.

 

As for day/night, etc. Yeah, perhaps some might seem like a chore, but it was also adding some "living world" feeling to it. In grid based it seems to be redundant though. The light types and spells enhancing dark vision should apply to night though.

 

On the magic types, well the only real thing I missed was a cleric subtype as the only class with access to GM light magic was a paladin, but his other skill sets didn't really allow for a good caster build. Adding perhaps one more archetype for each race would help that, and add some more GM combinations as some weapons hardly could be used to their full potential (for example two handed swords?)

Edited by Darkpriest
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But, but what about my quadruple Barbarian party? I jest, but I'd probably prefer a simple forward-or-back toggle for each character. The example that comes to mind, perhaps oddly, is Final Fantasy 7, where you had a damage penalty for melee attacks performed from the back, but would also receive a reduction in melee damage taken.

 

By the way, Rune Priests can GM Light I think. Didn't put a single point into mine since I had a Crusader though. None of the orc classes have access to either Light or Dark magic, so they'd be prime candidates for the supplementary Dark Magic casters.

 

 

 

Below is my post I was originally typing up, the text above is a fake edit.

 


 

Not recommending this rebalancing mod as such, but it's an interesting list of the various mechanics in the game that are fairly trivially user-editable. If I ever get around to playing again, I'll most certainly make a good number of changes to suit myself. Thinking specifically:

 

- Redesigned classes, mostly to allow a more flexible party setup and wider access to different skills (link with detailed chart below)

I'd definitely do something of the sort, especially magic-wise. I'd also think that giving all melee and hybrid classes the ability to GM whatever weapon they wished would be a reasonable change, as the restrictions appear to be as much due to archaic fantasy tropes rather than actual balancing. A mage with access to all the Fire spells and all the Air spells is significantly stronger than one only having one of those schools, but a fighter Grandmastering both spears and axes is not meaningfully stronger (indeed given the investment, will be significantly weaker) than one with just one of those skills. (Mercenaries might be problematic, however)

 

-Slowed outdoor time passage by 1 per step

Oh god, yes

 

-Reduced enemy blocking by 20%

Without a counterbalance, this runs the risk of making the game too easy, but as it stands, in the early game especially, block overly penalises non-dual-wielding melee classes (especially since Radiant Weapon is bugged and non-working).

 

-Weapon penalties for medium and heavy armor reduced slightly (roughly 10%).

Armour in the game in general I think is pretty problematic. In essence you're just spending points to allow you to wear armour without penalty, but that's a lot of points to spend for the relatively meagre armour bonus on said gear - especially noting how the non-armour stats on said gear are no better than what you can get by wearing cloth armour which requires no investment on skill points. Unfortunately I don't think making a balanced armour system is possible within the scope of user mods, it's just a fundamentally flawed design.

 

-Damages for ranged weapons increased

Obviously just a bandaid solution, proper viability for ranged combat is a long way off and would require at least one, if not both, of either allowing proper mobility in combat or proper firing arcs.

 

-Damages for magic focus weapons slightly increased (less so than ranged)

The problem with these is not the baseline damage but the fact that it scales exactly zero with the skill, until you reach Grandmaster at which point the damage is instantaneously quintupled. This is a nonsensical design, but I wonder if it's possible to have the scaling occur per point as per normal weapons.

 

-Stat requirements for challenge walls halved (may lower even more, still testing)

Mainly an artifact of ranged combat, and therefore perception, sucking. Wonder if it's possible to change all the perception checks to be spirit or vitality checks. It'd be a bandaid fix to be sure, but I don't like the odds of a total combat overhaul.

 

 

P.S. One of my own proposed changes would be bumping up the evade points you get for the Dodge skill. For an already fairly limited defensive skill, it's marginalised even further by the single point of evade per skill point investment. Some testing has been done by those more patient than me, and 1 point of evade is completely trivial by midgame in terms of enemy attack values: you want the value to be in the ballpark of the attacker's attack value, but GM Dodge gives a pitiful 25+30 points of evade, against late-game enemies with around *200* attack value. I don't even know if doubling the evade points per skill point would be sufficient.

Edited by Humanoid
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Finally got to play more M&M X over the weekend.

My party is now level 15 and near the end of Act 2 (I'm guessing).

It's still great fun, and my slow-going - hitting every tile and reading everything - pays dividends in atmosphere. I almost think this edition of the M&M series has a better story quality to it than them old ones (perhaps a heretic claim). Also, the party chatter is hilarious, albeit a bit repetitive.

 

 

I've had great fun when the enemies become more numerous in the forests and the desolate wasteland. And Crag turned out to be the most entertaining town so far, which is a feat in itself, as usually the best towns tend to come early in CRPGs. My only gripe was that all the ups and downs there, made the minimap almost useless.

My party: freemage, ranger, bladedancer, defender.

They are having quite a bit of a hard time sometimes, especially against casters and murderous assassins.

Also, the nice chest riddles I adore, but some crypt puzzles are horrific. One clue for one in the Wasteland. Remember the game Minesweeper? That's the solution for that one. It was my first googling for M&M X so far, I just couldn't get the puzzle at all. The party just seemed to die randomly.

 

 

 

 

Some complaints:

I missed a number of trainers early on because of that "more than portrait in a shop"-syndrome, so I've had to run around like a madman to get important ones, like sword and axe expert in Sorp, and even earth mag master. And I even missed an entire quarter in Seahaven because I misread the map - thinking something was blocked, when it was not (let's just say, there's where a dojo is). A suggestion would be some info/clickable - Trainers - for a certain shop/building.

I also find the maps in certain places annoyingly mulicoloured and sometimes semi-dark, Even if I cast a light-spell, the map tiles in certain places appear to be "unwalked" on.

 

P.S. My claim of a bug where my party couldn't pass because of a Sylvanna blessing needed was wrong. I read is that because of the context, instead it was just one of those Shalassa water-blessing things.

 

P.P.S. I've just rolled a new party to keep as a parallel to my other (which I still love, mind you). My first is so combat-heavy, and I want to test the other classes out, so this time I've made almost the opposite: a caster-heavy party. I kept a freemage (I love that Dark Magic), but made him a man (and nice vo for that one, the heroic). Then I went for a shaman (I want to try out water magic all the way to grand master), runepriest (I want to max out Fire magic ) and then finally a Crusader (the only one with GM for a weapon and a mag school - light). It's also somewhat cool to do everything with the meta-gamey knowledge of a replay. Still, after I left Sorpigal, I found one tile I had missed with my thorough first party, and it...

 

...contained a quest item. I had already found the secret room in the Spider's Lair leading up to the abandoned house. But I had missed the mid-tile in that room, and on the floor lay a dark-robed figure, and there you get a Quest Item - a letter. So, wow, what an oversight.

 

 

Overall, though, despite the very valid critique of some of the gameplay, like Humanoid's last post, I really must commend them for having re-created a very nice and engaging atmosphere, and this in a genre of CRPG, I've always treated as the slow food of ARPGs, almost. Kudos to Ubisoft for that! I can't wait for more content, or even M&M XI! :)

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

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For that Minesweeperish puzzle, you cast the low-level Light magic spell detect traps. After which I found you don't even need to avoid the traps. I walked straight down the centre, to the end - every step resulted in a prompt to select a character to disarm the trap. I guessed that it used perception, so I let my barbarian with a measly 25ish perception disarm all of them, no problem at all. It's ....it's probably not the intended design, no.

 

P.S. Apparently the Water magic spell Liquid Membrane is broken in the player's favour, it reduces damage by massively more than seems intended, apparently to the point of near invincibility.

 

 

 

EDIT: Was thinking of finishing the game today, but it's too bloody hot to do it. It's still 30°C+ outside at 9:30pm, hotter inside with residual heat, and playing this game, which is an insane power hog (especially on the store interface screens, yes that's right), would raise the temperature a fair bit beyond that. It's really the kind of thing that merits a hotfix.

Edited by Humanoid

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