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Simply put, what do you want them to be like? Kangaxx? A Final Fantasy boss? The Demi-Fiend from Shin Megami Tensei? What I'm getting at is how hard do you want them to be, and are there any specific mechanics that you do or do not like?

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I prefer they be pretty tough (Kangaxx, Twisted Rune), hard to find, and drop epic level equipment.

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I don't like boss fights that have stages. Especially those that hit the next stage when their HP bar drops to zero and it's full when they return. Also saving throws that make most spells / abilities completely useless. Also excessive random stuns and random agro isn't something I enjoy...

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What are "bonus bosses?" Tougher enemy battles that aren't part of the main plot?

 

I like finding enemies in some out of the way corner, but I don't think they always have to be the hardest ones in the game. Depends on what their story/reason for being there may be and all that jazz. Some could have some epic loot, some could be more for world/history flavor. eg, I like them to be varied ... but I don't enjoy the multi-player "raid" style bosses, so since this is a single-player game, none of those please.

 

It's fine if they have some kind of skill that gives them some health back (some health stealing say), that they can use occasionally, but scripted stages/going away for insta-full health just feels cheap. Not to mention, I prefer once a battle starts, for it to remain a battle to the end, rather than some multi-part scripted thingie with an overly talkative enemy that I have to sit through. Or whatever. :)

 

"Hahaha this isn't over, you think you've defeated me, but this isn't my real form/power. I was just testing you.  I'll be right back, you're in for such a surprise! Hohoho."

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“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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I'm quite happy with bosses equivelant to any of the optional boss battles of the infinity engine - as a rule of thumb they should be anywhere between challenging to insane difficulty, but not in a HP grinding way - either way the fight should be over fairly quickly, and it shouldn't ever turn into a repeating action sequence, eg. attack, rotate out attacker, cast debuff, rotate attacker, heal, etc.   Also, loot should be pretty contextual, not just "high end drops because big boss!" - a Dragon might have a horder or a knight might have sword, shield and armour, but it should be something that is tied to the concept of the boss if anything.  Some perhaps like the Black Dragon in IWD2 where there is no loot reward but you get some sort of stat based boost for victory.

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I'd like it if they were a bit harder than granite, but not quite the hardness of diamond. u_u


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I personally like difficult without having one obscure solution. So the Demi-Fiend is all that is wrong with bonus bosses, in that it requires major grinding and the use of skills that are worthless in the rest of the game to have a small change that the random rolls will go your way and you win. Hard? Yes. Fun? No. I like challenge, even extreme challenge, but no cheap stuff. So Kangaxx, sans scroll of undead protection is my preference.

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A good boss is one that can pulverise you if you act rashly but is trounced quite easily when you employ superior tactics and tough it out. Essentially someone you don't fight with half-heartedly. All or nothing. They should be connected to the setting not just there for no reason. Multistage bosses can break monotony provided they are logical and interesting. For example a body swapper or illusionist/mental battle etc. I love it when there is included some difficult and obscure way of defeating them indirectly through dialogue (eg. Planescape Torment). I hated the tacked on boss battles of Deus Ex: HR, which went against the grain of a non-violent stealth character, forcing players into a specific style of game play when the original was all about allowing varied styles of play.  

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Someone like Stingy Pete, story related yet fight with him is completely avoidable, but when he get engaged, you are in for some real good old fashioned beating. Also Vhailor counts, when... well we all knew when. :yes:


"Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel?

Pain. Pain, when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they had escaped. Pain of having to live! There will be no more pain. There will be... no more chaos."

 

 

Kerghan the Terrible,

first of the Necromancers,

voyager in the Lands of the Dead.

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For my optional boss I'd like the following:

  • some motivation, not just "yeah, sure, I'll just crawl down the Watcher's Keep and slay a mighty demon, because that's my idea of a nice vacation, thank you";
  • a fun quest that leads me to the boss and not a billboard saying, "Red Dragon's Top Secret Lair 200 km";
  • unique loot, something with a back story and a unique special effect. In the end if I have to work hard to slay the bastard, there's no reason devs shouldn't work hard on the reward. Not to mention that getting a weapon from an epic fight that will be outclassed at some point in game by semi-rare loot feels extremely lame;
  • a consequence... I mean, surely if no one killed the boss before there was some reason for it apart from him being imbalanced. Maybe someone wanted things to stay that way or maybe he had bossy relatives, who would take terrible revenge on his murderers. But a bunch of grateful peasant girls​ peasants offering me fiefdom over their settlement is fine too.
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What are "bonus bosses?"

LadyCrimson as a bonus boss.

 

Edit: By the way, aren't some of the high-dollar contributors becoming opponents or minor NPCs or suchlike persons in the game? Squaring off against yourself--a unique experience, to be certain.

Edited by Tsuga C
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Optional bosses are generally super hard and mostly disconnected from the story. If the boss isn't disconnected from the story... then isn't it just a quest with a hard boss?


. Well I was involved anyway. The dude who can't dance. 

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Optional bosses are generally super hard and mostly disconnected from the story. If the boss isn't disconnected from the story... then isn't it just a quest with a hard boss?

Not necessarily; a hidden undead monster in lost tomb can count as a bonus boss. Stumbling across a secret lair of a notorious pirate, etc. Bonus bosses shouldn't be disconnected, they should be part of the local flavour. For example a wizard's tower in the middle of town that no one in their right mind enters. Or encountering a weak creature that keeps running away as you approach ... until you walk into a massive, completely avoidable ambush. Bonus bosses can be scripted events or the owners of cordoned off areas, they don't have to be quests, you just need to be a little reckless to stumble across them. 

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Simply put, what do you want them to be like? Kangaxx? A Final Fantasy boss? The Demi-Fiend from Shin Megami Tensei? What I'm getting at is how hard do you want them to be, and are there any specific mechanics that you do or do not like?

What about an attractive lover who will murder you (literally) with a 100% instant death to all party members attack if you fail to defeat her (or him) within the battle's time limit like in Persona 4?

A good boss is one that can pulverise you if you act rashly but is trounced quite easily when you employ superior tactics and tough it out. Essentially someone you don't fight with half-heartedly. All or nothing. They should be connected to the setting not just there for no reason. Multistage bosses can break monotony provided they are logical and interesting. For example a body swapper or illusionist/mental battle etc. I love it when there is included some difficult and obscure way of defeating them indirectly through dialogue (eg. Planescape Torment). I hated the tacked on boss battles of Deus Ex: HR, which went against the grain of a non-violent stealth character, forcing players into a specific style of game play when the original was all about allowing varied styles of play.

I don't think any real boss should be "quite easy." What makes them a boss if they're easy? You can get pulverized by normal enemies in an IE game if you don't know what you're doing/employ poor tactics, or if you just get shafted by the D20 RNG. Unless you're significantly higher level than the boss it shouldn't be "easy."

Optional bosses are generally super hard and mostly disconnected from the story. If the boss isn't disconnected from the story... then isn't it just a quest with a hard boss?

They usually involve unique/overpowered gear as loot. Also it's "if the boss isn't connected to the story." If the boss isn't disconnected from the story, then it's a part of the story, not just a quest quest with a hard boss. Edited by AGX-17

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So what you want is a boss that completely destroys you regardless of what you do? Where is the fun in dying over and over and over again against the same enemy? That is just frustrating, unless it part of the game mechanic like Dark Souls. I don't expect anyone would be able to pull off perfect tactics against a boss they just stumbled across; a good boss usually makes you cling to life by your fingertips. Walking away unscathed is impossible without extensive knowledge and experience in game. It becomes easy only when you have hours of gameplay under your belt and extensive knowledge of all the boss's attacks and detailed strategies. After all what is strategy if not a tool to make your chances of victory certain?

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I'm confused now. Should bosses be easy, or should they be literally impossible? Obviously those are our only 2 options, but I just don't know which to favor... SO indecisive, o_o.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I'm confused now. Should bosses be easy, or should they be literally impossible? Obviously those are our only 2 options, but I just don't know which to favor... SO indecisive, o_o.

Easy, hard or shades of grey? I don't like cakewalks however I don't like reloading every five minutes or so either. Ultimately all we have is our own preferences. I have expressed mine as somewhere in the grey area. After all a boss is meant to challenge and entertain; to increase the difficulty and pressure a couple of notches or exist as a novelty. If it doesn't add an element of fun or effort it is no different from a normal enemy. 

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Variation is the way to go!

Not every boss is super powerfull, and not every boss drops super powerfull items (not even the super powerfull bosses ^^)

 

There SHOULD be some super hard bosses ofc.

They should be challenging because of tactics the require, not simply because they oneshot your party. (except there is a way to protect yourself from that)

A bossfight should NOT be like every other battle in the game. maybe you have to use a certain item at a certain point in the fight etc.

 

short: bosses need to be challenging and offer some variation.

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Isnt monster/boss difficulty directly related to your party level? For example, if you tried to tackle Demogorgon at level 10 he was going to pimp slap you, if you tried at level 15 you had a fighting chance.


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Isnt monster/boss difficulty directly related to your party level? For example, if you tried to tackle Demogorgon at level 10 he was going to pimp slap you, if you tried at level 15 you had a fighting chance.

true, totally forgott about that point.

this way it makes bossfights even better. You will have to admit your defeat and come back at a later point in the game to finally beat the boss. great achievement!

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I would like to see a new game plus mode where you can play with your level capped characters through a whole game of monsters scaled to fight level capped players. Along with that toss in a few new areas that can only be accessed in this mode with a few uber boss types that yield the most powerful items in the game. Granted I'm a bit of a whore for replay value though and this is the sort of thing I'd like to see as much for that reason as much as for the challenge of bonus bosses.

Generally speaking I think non-essential bosses should be harder than usual, be off the beaten path and yield better than average loot.


K is for Kid, a guy or gal just like you. Don't be in such a hurry to grow up, since there's nothin' a kid can't do.

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I'd add that a "bonus boss" should often be more accuratly a bonus bonus boss team - generally speaking, fighting a single high level opponent is less tactically challenging than a varied enemy boss squad, say, some high end mercenarys contracted to kill you or a team of bad guys who you unintentionally release from a magic device.

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I would like to see a new game plus mode where you can play with your level capped characters through a whole game of monsters scaled to fight level capped players.

 

No. 


. Well I was involved anyway. The dude who can't dance. 

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