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Male/Female+Classes, Lore

paladin priest barbarian amazon wizard witch factions fighter squire soldier

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#21
JFSOCC

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It's not that ridiculous. You don't have to be mocking about it. Plenty orders DO have different names for their followers based on gender. like the Catholic church.

#22
Tauron

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If you say Wizard, for some reason I dont picture a woman. Is Wizardess correct for female in english? It kind of makes sense to have gender specifics or better yet unisex title like Mage.

As for barbarian and fighters, I agree. There was discussion about that before. It is supposed to be difference in fighting style. But than, fighter should be called soldier. It is not fair calling barabrians, barbarians in context the word has, knowing today how those cultures were acually. But lets stick to predefined stereotypes we know, it will be just easier.

So whn we say barbarian we think of Conan. Fighting bit less armored, huge weapons, more wild fighter.

#23
PrimeJunta

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It's not that ridiculous. You don't have to be mocking about it. Plenty orders DO have different names for their followers based on gender. like the Catholic church.

I didn't intend to mock. I just thought Barbazon, Wizitch, and Palaest sounded wonderfully like something you'd think up in a certain very particular state of mind. :cheers:


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#24
Osvir

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There's no good rolls eyes smiley! But whatever, because those titles are what I'm suggesting? Those are just titles in the post and I don't think you're dumb.

But just in case that you are:

Barba-rian+Ama-zon (and yes, I thought it funny as well as a good way to create a shorter title in the post)~

It's not what I am proposing.


Edited by Osvir, 17 January 2013 - 11:04 PM.


#25
PrimeJunta

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Osvir, it was funny. And I did get the references. I'm sorry my attempt at humor in response fell flat. I honestly didn't intend to mock. It's an amusing idea in general (in a good way), but I don't really have much else to say about it, as things like titles depend so much on the cultures that give them, and we don't know a whole lot about those.

 

Once again, I apologize for causing offense. I tried to make a joke and failed. I'll try to do better next time.


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#26
Dream

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This is what you get when you try and come up with a new idea thread every day.


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#27
Osvir

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^More like:
Read threads -> get ideas -> start post in thread -> post becomes brainstorm -> brainstorm post becomes "Should be its own thread" -> Becomes its own thread.


Edited by Osvir, 18 January 2013 - 02:14 AM.


#28
Felithvian

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The difference between insanity and genius is measured by success. The problem is, Osvir is such a Peter Molyneux wannabe, that the full extent of his brilliance can never be translated into one game.

 

I really miss these kind of people in the video game industry.


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#29
Ieo

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Historically, Osvir, your "brainstorm" threads aren't very fruitful and more often than not aren't appropriate for PE for a variety of reasons. Don't get me wrong; I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, but it's like you don't understand how the preproduction stage actually works: OBSIDIAN brainstorms, we vet, they tweak. This is their creative product, not yours (ours).

The most we should be doing is offering feedback or specific ideas that are not only content-positive (i.e. argumentatively improve player experience on its face with decent perceived RoI) but also appropriate for PE as an IE tribute.

Your ideas, historically, are neither content-positive (lots of resources for little or no gain, or a layer of unnecessary complexity) nor appropriate for PE (e.g. full VO, emoticon-like facial expression for every dialogue option, gear-based character advancement, LOS mechanic that requires a 3D environment with rotating camera, limiting pause functionally as a measure of difficulty, etc.). IMO. :p

Now, I'm not encouraging a chilling effect or anything, but you could be more mindful of your topics. And yes, it's easier to pick on your threads due to frequency. Does a proposal go with the feel of the IE games? Would the inclusion require significant resources or impinge on the player experience instead of enriching?

Well, I suppose in terms of judgment, Obsidian is always in the better position, so I'll remain confidant that they can separate the signal from the noise. We'll still evaluate as players, of course.

...Still NO. (Reasons explained by others already. :biggrin:)
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#30
Dream

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The difference between insanity and genius is measured by success. The problem is, Osvir is such a Peter Molyneux wannabe, that the full extent of his brilliance can never be translated into one game.

 

I really miss these kind of people in the video game industry.

Did you just say we need more people like Peter Molyneux? Now I really have heard everything.



#31
Alexjh

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The difference between insanity and genius is measured by success. The problem is, Osvir is such a Peter Molyneux wannabe, that the full extent of his brilliance can never be translated into one game.

 

I really miss these kind of people in the video game industry.

Did you just say we need more people like Peter Molyneux? Now I really have heard everything.

I'd actually agree with needing more Peter Molyneuxs - I'd rather the games industry be in a state where there are loads of hyper ambitious people who fail to live up to their imagination than one where people aren't even trying to push the boundaries.


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#32
Osvir

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@Ieo: I get the sentiment :D what I do is just close my eyes and imagine Baldur's Gate but with my, yours or Obsidian's ideas on top of it. I don't know what you do, but that's what I do because this forum is about a spiritual successor to that game. LOS is LOS is only about 3D objects, and does not require you to be able to rotate camera (see Nox), heck even Baldur's Gate has LOS (you can't see around a corner unless you go to the corner).

As a creative man myself, I get ideas, I'm creative/innovative and I just go whacky with it. "Digging" down deeper on the patch of dirt looking if there's anything there. If there's not, then I wouldn't be down there, something shiny on the ground, a piece of gold or whatnot (boom, and now I have a brainstorming idea for [Digging]). If there's problems of understanding or problems of complaining, then I'll do my best to explain. This doesn't mean that I am in favor of the idea, I am objective.

It is at the end of the thread we come to an understanding. Granted we read all the posts in the thread and manage to come to some conclusion.

"This is material" in a way that a Computer is Material. I can throw my computer out of the window if I decide to do that (not that I will).

The point; I get some intelligent people saying "No" and some intelligent people saying "Yes", and I sit in the middle of the chaos looking at both sides and understanding the perspectives. I'm a middle-man. Many of the threads I create, I get such a response in a way that I feel "NO" towards "feature creep" rather than the idea itself, or what Alexjh says "Pushing boundaries".

Why do you insist in thinking I am on some other page than you guys? "P:E" should be the best it can be, in a way that it is "P:E" and not only "IE 2.1".

+3 Arrows was a joke Ieo. Didn't mean to sound rude, just thought it funny when I saw it and couldn't resist. No bad blood kk? :) I think you're a nice guy too! (very intelligent too, I really like pretty much all your posts Ieo).
 

Does a proposal go with the feel of the IE games? Would the inclusion require significant resources or impinge on the player experience instead of enriching?

 


Do you want a copy+paste? No I don't think so. Lore obviously is going to be different in P:E. Don't forget "Read Ancient Poetry" as well. And it is always about making the player experience gloriously enriched brother :) classes themselves were pretty bland in the IE games and the only game I can think of that had a twist too it was PS:T. Are Fighters part of the P:E world? How? Why? What do they do? Where do they go? What kind of culture? Profession?

What is the Paladin? Cipher? Priest? Does there exist a Holy Religious Order or several of them? Are there Male and Female Dominated Orders/Factions? Why? How? Where? What do they do? Etc.etc.

@Alexjh: Thank you! That goes in my bloody signature.... "I push boundaries" :p


Edited by Osvir, 18 January 2013 - 04:06 AM.


#33
Dream

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The difference between insanity and genius is measured by success. The problem is, Osvir is such a Peter Molyneux wannabe, that the full extent of his brilliance can never be translated into one game.

 

I really miss these kind of people in the video game industry.

Did you just say we need more people like Peter Molyneux? Now I really have heard everything.

I'd actually agree with needing more Peter Molyneuxs - I'd rather the games industry be in a state where there are loads of hyper ambitious people who fail to live up to their imagination than one where people aren't even trying to push the boundaries.

Peter Molyneux isn't hyper ambitious; he just makes **** up and lies his ass off. 



#34
Alexjh

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The difference between insanity and genius is measured by success. The problem is, Osvir is such a Peter Molyneux wannabe, that the full extent of his brilliance can never be translated into one game.

 

I really miss these kind of people in the video game industry.

Did you just say we need more people like Peter Molyneux? Now I really have heard everything.

I'd actually agree with needing more Peter Molyneuxs - I'd rather the games industry be in a state where there are loads of hyper ambitious people who fail to live up to their imagination than one where people aren't even trying to push the boundaries.

Peter Molyneux isn't hyper ambitious; he just makes **** up and lies his ass off. 

If you are going to take the most basic view of him then yes, he does, but I've always read it more as he basically comes up with loads of ideas, gets very excited by them so has to tell someone, which might be a news outlet of some sort, and then he goes back into work and his artists and programmers are like "what the hell Peter? we can't do any of that stuff with our budget/time/resources!".  It's annoying sure, but I never get the impression he's doing it because he wants to trick you into having this, just that he wants to have these things and then reality conspires to prevent him doing so.


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#35
JFSOCC

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I like your brainstorm threads. yes, most of them aren't very fruitful. so what.

 

I have an anecdote about Albert Einstein. Einstein was a friendly rival of Niels Bohr. At the time, it was Bohr's ideas that held sway.

Einstein didn't like it. They would go out (with friends) and every time Einstein would have come up with a new theory, or a change in one he had before.

And every time, Bohr would find the holes in them, and shoot them down.

Eventually Einstein came with a theory he couldn't shoot down.

 

If only for the pleasure of shooting ideas down I vote Osvir continues his threads :)

Plenty of times they have served as inspiration for my own.


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#36
NKKKK

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One day Osvir will have his E=MC2


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#37
Jobby

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Einstien was one of the most notorious plagerists known to science, irrelevant, but worth stating, on topic i have always advocated there being a difference between male and female classes, abilities and attributes, not because i am sexist but because men and women are different, they always will be, in real life certain professions will appeal more to women than men (and vice versa), I am a bit tired of fantasy games ignoring this simple fact of life, even when they try to bring in more complex themes that parallel society they generally avoid the sexism argument (and i can understand to some extent why). 

 

I don't think there needs to be huge differences but the idea of certain cultures finding female warriors abhorrent and then showing this belief by scorning your party would be a nice touch, likewise with, as Osvir suggested, male priests being considered to be out of place in some cultures, given that it is a fantasy game it doesn't need to be clear cut "man fight, woman cook" you could have a society similar to the dark elves in BG2 for example.

 

Point is, they've already stated there will be mature themes in this game, I don't see why sexism has to be avoided but racism is allowed.

 

P.S. i enjoy your meandering brainstorm posts too Osvir, although you maybe shouldn't quote yourself in the original post lol



#38
Ieo

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Why is the quote function all screwed up in the add-post thing?

 

Point is, they've already stated there will be mature themes in this game, I don't see why sexism has to be avoided but racism is allowed.

You're missing the point. Osvir wants sexism built into parts of the classes themselves--some by title only (without actual differences, hence pointless), another by getting rid of Obsidian's own already described priest and paladin classes...

 

Basically, his approach is bass-ackwards: Obsidian supports player choice in most things (as many things as possible). That means freedom for whatever class and sex you choose (think about the "purpose ready" update statement too). Then the WORLD reacts to those initial choices and subsequent actions at the local level. Of course there's going to be racism and sexism, but that's endemic to parts of the world itself, not something at character creation (i.e. that wouldn't be "reactive content"). I mean, Osvir did propose something about global "good/evil" reputation, but all of that flies in the face of Project Eternity's direction because we should all know there's no concept of alignment.

 

 

The difference between insanity and genius is measured by success. The problem is, Osvir is such a Peter Molyneux wannabe, that the full extent of his brilliance can never be translated into one game.

 

I really miss these kind of people in the video game industry.

Did you just say we need more people like Peter Molyneux? Now I really have heard everything.

I'd actually agree with needing more Peter Molyneuxs - I'd rather the games industry be in a state where there are loads of hyper ambitious people who fail to live up to their imagination than one where people aren't even trying to push the boundaries.

 

Well, besides which that comparison is irrelevant here. There is a vast, vast difference between an actual game designer and programmer in the industry who creates his own contexts for his ideas and tries to follow through, even with failure. That's why his approach, while off-the-wall and whatever, is respectable in some sense. Here? We have people throwing half-baked ideas at someone else's creative context.

 

If you think you're all that awesome creative, build your own world and game rules or write your own book or something. Like some of us are already doing on our own time. 



#39
Jobby

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Why is the quote function all screwed up in the add-post thing?

 

Point is, they've already stated there will be mature themes in this game, I don't see why sexism has to be avoided but racism is allowed.

You're missing the point. Osvir wants sexism built into parts of the classes themselves--some by title only (without actual differences, hence pointless), another by getting rid of Obsidian's own already described priest and paladin classes...

I do see what you mean however I'm not entirely against it in the character creation screen either, different names for different sexes same professions is a bit pointless (although it is mimicked in real life to some degree), but i do think there should be advantages and disadvantages when choosing the sex of your character beyond aesthetics, again Obsidian have already stated that this will not be the case and i respect their decision, hence my example of how sex could affect reputation and standing with various factions.

 

I would personally propose quite major reactions, although ideally without locking too much game content out, for example, some race or culture don't like women to fight, therefore their fighters guild doesn't allow women in, in order to get into the fighters guild as a female you have to first complete a set of quests for a militant woman's suffragette group.

 

Alternatively if you play as a female this militant suffragette group is your alternative to the fighters guild (and perhaps halfway through the questline this group and fighters guild merge at which point you will have a decent standing and carry on the male branch of quests), point is i'd like to see something real, as opposed to "if you play male women like you more, if you play female men like you more".


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#40
LadyCrimson

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Why is the quote function all screwed up in the add-post thing?

There was a forum software update. It's not technically "messed up", but in quick reply it no longer seems to show the tags ... I only see the 'boxes' in the WYSIWIG "preview" area.

Something about saving in HTML vs. BBcode or something probably. If you turn off BBcode mode (the paperclip in the far upper left) you can see the tags then.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: paladin, priest, barbarian, amazon, wizard, witch, factions, fighter, squire, soldier

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