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Torment Sequel Q&A with Brian Fargo

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I wonder if Bioshock's reveal incited discussions like this

It did. It may have got a slightly smoother ride- from memory I think the reaction at places like TTLG was largely positive- but then it was announced quite soon after SS2, a disliked company (EA) was thought to hold the rights to System Shock and the team making Bioshock was in very large part the exact same team that made SS2. After release there was of course a lot of criticism for them relating it to SS2 when it was actually a generic fps mechanically, albeit with nice atmosphere and a good (if Levine trope) story.

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"Chris Avellone gave it his blessing. "

 

Contrary to what soem think, Avellone - even as I like some of the games he's made - is not a god, and I don't base my opinion on what he thinks.

 

Bottom line is Obsidian handled PE hyping right and Fargo is handling PS'2' hyping wrong. This is FACT.

 

Yeah, yeah. Since when is your opinion fact ?

 

Many people, including me, feel Fargo has marketed PS 2 perfectly fine.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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InXile is planning on making a game that will share some elements that made Planescape: Torment an excellent role-playing game. Sounds good to me.

 

Not really concerned about the implementation of Torment into the title. I can appreciate Alan's points about potential self-limitation, but considering that a game like PS:T is pretty rare to begin with, I wouldn't mind seeing more of that kind of game.

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"Many people, including me, feel Fargo has marketed PS 2 perfectly fine."

 

Do you always need back up or can you actually discuss things based on your own opinion without whining about how much others agree with you? Why worry about others opinions so much? Be your own person.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"Many people, including me, feel Fargo has marketed PS 2 perfectly fine."

 

Do you always need back up or can you actually discuss things based on your own opinion without whining about how much others agree with you? Why worry about others opinions so much? Be your own person.

 

My point is not about how many people agree or disagree with me. My point is you cannot say in life your opinion is fact, its not. Its your view.

 

I know you are just trying to avoid answering the question, nice deflection but its doesn't change what I said.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Bottom line is Obsidian handled PE hyping right and Fargo is handling PS'2' hyping wrong. This is FACT.

You have a strange definition of the word "fact". I reject your statement as fact and accept it as opinion. I then respectfully disagree with your opinion. I personally see nothing at all wrong with how Fargo and InXile have handled Numenera: Torment up to this point. Obviously, very little is known about the project at this stage, which will hopefully be cleared up when they launch the Kickstarter campaign.

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After having a few days to digest the info I've decided I quite like the Numenera setting as a Planescape alternative, the Torment name usage still rankles a bit though.

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Now to wait the several years and see if the core question of this version is "What does one life matter? … and does it matter at all?"

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"My point is you cannot say in life your opinion is fact, its not."

 

Yes, I can. How are you gonna stop me? Oh yeah, you aren't.

 

 

And, what question, exactly? Why are you so defenseive of Fargo? Do I hurt your feelings when I am mean to him? I don't hate Fargo. Hard to hate a guy who had a hand inc reating some of my favorite games.

 

Bottom line is this PS'2' fiasco is pathetic. i'd be a lot more prone to positivity about this new game if they didn't fumble the announcement.

 

PE announcement > PS'2' announcement. FACT


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Ability to publicize does not equal the ability to produce a good game. FACT.

 

Just because somebody can do a good interview doesn't mean they can make a good game, i.e., Molyneux-itis. But it's also possible for people to be able to produce a good game while flubbing public relations, i.e., Tesla-itis.

 

This is a very preliminary interview where nothing concrete is known. Declaring the game to be completely bust before they've even written anything for the plot is a bit... much.

Edited by TSBasilisk
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"Declaring the game to be completely bust"

 

I never did no such thing.

 

Also, declaring it awesomesauce before the game is made is a bit... much.. as well...

 

R00fles!


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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You're right, you didn't in this thread. The other thread was where you were really beating on it; sorry for bringing that into this.

 

Either way, I'm holding off any judgment until there's actual info on the game, not just the design wishlist.

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Also consider that Fargo has an excellent relationship with Obsidian and that he oversaw Interplay in it's golden years. While I'm not a huge fan of everything he's done, I'm not aware of anything he's ever done that really falls into the evil greedy suit category, poster boyed by EA and Vivendi. Can you name one?

Yea, this.

 

If this was a PR guy from Activision reviving the Torment "franchise" by saying the exact say **** Fargo's saying people would be screaming bloody murder.

And if EA said that they wanted to make an IE inspired game i wouldn't have given them 1$. If this was a PR guy from Activision reviving the Torment "franchise",i wouldn't give a **** about the game. If Obsidian or inXile had the Fallout franchise i would be happy. For Beth's i don't care.

 

*shrug* as much as EA or Activision seem to not make games I'm interested in, I'd wait out to hear how the game is shaping up / see footage / etc before making any complaints. Not liking the business decisions a company makes doesn't mean they can't make (even if its accidental) a decent game.

 

Mind you I tend not to scream "bloody murder" in general about video games since, generally speaking, I just don't pay or play games that don't interest me.

 

And if this sequel shapes up to be terrible, then I'll happily skip it too.

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Also consider that Fargo has an excellent relationship with Obsidian and that he oversaw Interplay in it's golden years. While I'm not a huge fan of everything he's done, I'm not aware of anything he's ever done that really falls into the evil greedy suit category, poster boyed by EA and Vivendi. Can you name one?

Yea, this.

 

If this was a PR guy from Activision reviving the Torment "franchise" by saying the exact say **** Fargo's saying people would be screaming bloody murder.

And if EA said that they wanted to make an IE inspired game i wouldn't have given them 1$. If this was a PR guy from Activision reviving the Torment "franchise",i wouldn't give a **** about the game. If Obsidian or inXile had the Fallout franchise i would be happy. For Beth's i don't care.

 

*shrug* as much as EA or Activision seem to not make games I'm interested in, I'd wait out to hear how the game is shaping up / see footage / etc before making any complaints. Not liking the business decisions a company makes doesn't mean they can't make (even if its accidental) a decent game.

 

Mind you I tend not to scream "bloody murder" in general about video games since, generally speaking, I just don't pay or play games that don't interest me.

 

And if this sequel shapes up to be terrible, then I'll happily skip it too.

Oh, i'm not saying (insert company)'s games are crap per se.Just that the said company's design direction is not for me. For example, if a game is made from Bethesda you can expect that it will be first person,actiony, with focus on exploration.

I don't like any of the above,so i don't buy their games. That doesn't make the games bad, sales indicate that is a direction many people find enjoyable. Same with Bioware. They wouldn't make a text heavy game when their audience expect a "cinematic" experiense. Whether this is good or bad is subjective.

When i said i trust inXile i meant that i trust them to try to make the game as close as possible to the original, for the original's fans.Bethesda didn't made Fallout 3 for Fallout fans, they made it first for Oblivion fans.InXile doesn't have a core audience yet, and they try to catter to the "oldschool" audience.

As all of my favourite games were made about 10~ years ago, i hope they will get it right.

Edited by Malekith

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I don't get what the issue is. No one complains about Final Fantasy sequels. Every game has an entirely new setting with new game mechanics, characters, etc. but they had to make one an MMO before people complained that they weren't real sequels.

 

If Numenera: Torment comes out and has:

  • deep, intense, personal story
  • memorable characters
  • characters growth is based more on my dialogue choices and the interactions I have with others rather than how many beasts I can slay
  • unconventional setting and cultures
  • Anything like the stuff with the unbroken circle with Dak'kon (scads of dialogue discussing things important to a character where my character's arguments and points can make a difference in their beliefs and outlook)

I will be satisfied that it is a Torment sequel.

 

Big agree, I dare to add to your list few of main suggestions:

- memorable and original main protagist

- exciting story of tormented souls and their journey to final resolution

- no matter how bitte, reasonable and satisfaying ending

- 800,000 (at very least) words of quality texts

- philosophical depth

 

- of a personal wish, Mark Morgan to create atmospherical outworldish music in his good old style,

 

And maybe new symbols, tattoos scars and Arc Words, or anything just as much distinctive

 

Now

New story about another wrecking torment of different character in brand new bizzare world, thats enough for me. Only thing which bothers me a bit is my personal dislike of sci/fantasy mixture, I hope it will not be of FFs technofantasy stock or SW fairy taley style, and more in Wizardry vein, which was the only setting that combined the two just alright. Personal tastes aside, if the final game will be of at least similar quality, being a game which makes you think long after finishing its story and have those who played it chat on forum about all kind of story/ character details and bits and hidden meanings , secrets and thoughts, then it will truly be P:T spiritual successor.

 

Of course the Planescape Torment is the original and holds its cult status for plenty good reasons, and indeed set the standard cosmicly high but as I see it there is more stories of Torment to be told but does not necccessary need to be set in Planescape setting exclusively. And after seeing how much has changed in its setting ever since would take away great deal of spirit (I mean ending the Blood War? Really? are these guys serious? On the other hand if The Nameless One survived to the days of Bl. War's end it may technically free him of his punishment in there, just a thought)


"Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel?

Pain. Pain, when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they had escaped. Pain of having to live! There will be no more pain. There will be... no more chaos."

 

 

Kerghan the Terrible,

first of the Necromancers,

voyager in the Lands of the Dead.

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It sounds fun as described and I'm definitely interested but it seems like they're just springboarding off the built-in fanbase for PST in order to sell a completely different and original game.

 

Well, if they actually manage to make a game that feels a lot like PST and appeals to the same fanbase, that's not a bad thing right?

I think it's too early to pass judgment on this game, either way.

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se·quel [see-kwuh l]

noun

1. a literary work, movie, etc., that is complete in itself but continues the narrative of a preceding work.

 

se·quel

1: consequence, result

2a : subsequent development

b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

 

Yet we know the setting won't be the same (that part I don't fault them), the story certainly won't be the same, none of the characters would be there. Absolutely no link besides the word Torment! Even DA:O's marketing wasn't that bad.

 

This is not a damn sequel.

 

 

Did Fargo or his team claim that it is, somewhere?

In the interview linked by the OP, only the intro text added by the magazine calls the game a sequel, not Fargo himself.

 

On the game's official website, the About page introduces it as:

 

"Torment: Tides of Numenera™ continues the thematic legacy of the critically acclaimed Planescape: Torment™."

 

This is not fundamentally different from how Project Eternity is introduced on its own website:

 

"Miss classic cRPGs like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we! Introducing Obsidian's PROJECT ETERNITY."

 

Both play on the nostalgia of existing fan bases. So what?

The main difference is that for Torment they're actually adopting a part of the original name, but I don't see why that's such a big deal. It's not called "Planescape: Torment II", it's called "Torment: Tides of Numenera". This, I think, makes it pretty clear that there are strong thematic ties to PST, but it is not a sequel but rather a separate game in a different setting.

 

Here's the thing, Obsidian:

 

What's this got to do with Obsidian?

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Why is it not called Planescape: Tides of Numenera?

 

Because the setting is not Planescape. It's Numenera. Hence:

 

Torment: Tides of Numenera. It's not that hard. They want to make Torment a thematic franchise. They don't want to be confined to the Planescape setting, ergo they call it Torment.


My thoughts on how character powers and urgency could be implemented:

http://forums.obsidi...nse-of-urgency/

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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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We are starting with the assumption that our players want to read and think 

I'm not sure that's a good assumption to make about the gaming community...  present company excluded, of course.

;)

 

I do like how everything is all about writing story and characters from the ground up and the gameplay elements will be fitted around that, not the other way around.  It all sounds great, I hope they can deliver.

 

/tries not to get hopes up too high

//fails

 

Edit: As an aside, I'm reading through the Numenera Core Book right now and it makes me think that this game will have to be turn-based (certainly not a bad thing in my opinion), or at least it would work a lot better with turn-based.  Numenera's effort mechanic, which is very much at the core of the system, seems like it would be difficult to properly implement in real-time.  I mean, I guess it's possible.

Edited by Keyrock

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"We're not planning on letting you fight anyone, anywhere"

 

??? ???


The sky had never seemed so sky, the world had never seemed so world.

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Meaning it's not like Wasteland where every single character is killable.  There will be some number of protected NPCs for plot reasons.

Yeah, that's the same meaning I got out of it too.  It makes sense for Torment since that is planned to have a far more focused narrative, where as I expect Wasteland 2 to be more free-form.

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We are starting with the assumption that our players want to read and think 

I'm not sure that's a good assumption to make about the gaming community...  present company excluded, of course.

;)

 

I do like how everything is all about writing story and characters from the ground up and the gameplay elements will be fitted around that, not the other way around.  It all sounds great, I hope they can deliver.

 

/tries not to get hopes up too high

//fails

 

Edit: As an aside, I'm reading through the Numenera Core Book right now and it makes me think that this game will have to be turn-based (certainly not a bad thing in my opinion), or at least it would work a lot better with turn-based.  Numenera's effort mechanic, which is very much at the core of the system, seems like it would be difficult to properly implement in real-time.  I mean, I guess it's possible.

 

How would you rate the ruleset compared to D&D?

 

Also does the Core Book discuss magic, for example are there large numbers of spells and do they get progressively more powerful as they advance in levels like D&D


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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How would you rate the ruleset compared to D&D?

 

 

 

Also does the Core Book discuss magic, for example are there large numbers of spells and do they get progressively more powerful as they advance in levels like D&D

 

I'm not nearly far enough in to reading through the book to make a final judgement, not to mention, that I need to actually play the game first.  There really aren't "spells" per se, everything is technology, though some may refer to it as magic.  The number of intristic powers (called esoteries) available to nanos is a lot more limited than the D&D spell repertoire, and they're a bit more broadly defined, though the amount of effects that can be accomplished with artifacts, cyphers, and oddities, is potentially limitless.  Outside of being d20 based, the system shares practically nothing in common with D&D.  There are 3 stat pools: might, speed, and intellect.  As you use each of these you can can apply extra effort into actions, whatever they may be, to either increase your chance of success or increase the effects (more damage, etc), but this drains the appropriate stat pool by a certain amount and you don't immediately get those points back (until you rest or whatever) which limits your options down the line or makes you more susceptible to certain things.  I need to read a lot more to truly get the grasp of it.

Edited by Keyrock
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