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Thoughts on Experience

quest experience objective character player spiritualism

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#41
TMTVL

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PnP DSA only gave "experience" the first time you encountered and defeated a specific type of enemy in the adventure. Then again, in DSA it wasn't really "experience," they were adventuring points. I also remember fights taking 8 hours to fight in 3rd edition, so you weren't going to put much effort in raising your fighting skills anyway, a combat avoided was a combat won where the players and the GM were concerned.

#42
Umberlin

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Vampire Masquerade: Bloodlines (paper edition of World of Darkness also didn't have exp for enemies).


True, but that's not the brand of system I'm attempting to think of, present in a game.

PnP DSA only gave "experience" the first time you encountered and defeated a specific type of enemy in the adventure. Then again, in DSA it wasn't really "experience," they were adventuring points. I also remember fights taking 8 hours to fight in 3rd edition, so you weren't going to put much effort in raising your fighting skills anyway, a combat avoided was a combat won where the players and the GM were concerned.


That sounds closer, but it seems like there was a cRPG, or something, at some point. You know, if I wasn't trying to think of it I wouldn't be having trouble remembering . . . it's one of those silly things.

#43
Sharp_one

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True, but that's not the brand of system I'm attempting to think of, present in a game.


I don't understand. Bloodlines was a game.

#44
Valorian

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Once again, what problem is it we're solving here? I still do not see any purpose to this implementation other than behavior control, or more specifically, because someone somewhere might choose to grind or exploit the system, which doesn't affect a single other person.


I wonder if ther position of avoiding degenerushon in player behaviour is because they plan to have endless respawns, like in F:NV for example or endless random encounters like in Arcanum or Fallout. The sad thing is, as a player, it's hard to avoid this xp degenerushon when you want to explore a world with respawning enemies; you'll get attacked by the same bunch at the same location and well, you'll have to kill them again on most occasions.
I tried installing a mod that would get rid of respawns for F:NV, but it didn't work. In Old World Blues it was ridiculous how often they respawned and I had no choice but to kill them over and over again when going from place to place and exploring, getting lots of (unwanted) xp in the process... That's degenerate design.

Of course, the logical solution would be to get rid of respawns and endless random encounters so that (ACCIDENTAL) grinding isn't possible.

#45
Wirdjos

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I really like what you are advocating here, Osvir. It adds to the believability of the game system which in turn enhances the role playing immersion. However, I think the reason you want this system is the exact reason Obsidian would avoid it. (Based on what I've read of course)
As I understood it, the reason for going over to a system that rewarded the player based on completed objectives instead of combat was to allow for more choices. If two different experience pools are used, then the player is still being punished for avoiding combat as it is likely combat will be unavoidable at some point and their combat skills will be underdeveloped when they do. I think the whole choice here hinges on whether or not I will be asking myself the very metagaming and immersion breaking question, "Should I avoid this combat and complete my goal more efficiently or should I kill them all and soak up the EXP?"

#46
Osvir

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Maybe completing the goal without killing them is another method for soaking up the same amount of experience, but for another tree.

So really I totally forgot to add that in on my first post, but these are the experience tables I'd like to see. Not just splitting experience by 2, but by 3.

Character Level
Combat Level
Non-Combat Level

The Character Level is static, whilst Combat Level~Non-Combat Level would be a choice, "How do you play?", "Which route do you go?" and both would have rewards along the way. Deus Ex: HR (which I haven't played far at all) had a great starting choice (not the time based one) when you get to choose what kinds of weapons you want for the first mission. Of course you can switch it around later but you get the choice "Do you want a more combat oriented approach or do you want a non-lethal approach?" and you'll get rewards for whichever you choose.

Edited by Osvir, 16 December 2012 - 05:11 PM.


#47
Umberlin

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I don't understand. Bloodlines was a game.


Yes. It is. It's not the type of system I'm trying to think of present in a game though.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: quest, experience, objective, character, player, spiritualism

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