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Two weapon style (dual wield)

weapon dual wield rouge fighter

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Poll: dual weapon options you prefer? (147 member(s) have cast votes)

what kind of dual weapon/two weapon fighting style you prefer in game?

  1. off hand weapons should be smaller in size (long sword-dagger style) (41 votes [27.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.89%

  2. off hand weapons can be same size (long sword-long sword style) (83 votes [56.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 56.46%

  3. doesn't matter/don't care (23 votes [15.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.65%

Should off hand weapon has to be same type of weapon?

  1. yes (sword-sword or axe-axe etc.) (6 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

  2. no (sword-axe ; axe-dagger ; staff-dagger ; sword-flail etc.) (118 votes [80.27%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 80.27%

  3. doesn't matter/don't care (23 votes [15.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.65%

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#121
Adhin

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They where basically combat staffs modeled, the actual image they posted from the inventory isn't proper to the actual model or DnD illustrations. It was just a poor setup to show off the blade type due to how NWN handled weapon model swapping for customization stuff. In game it was literally just a staff with short swords on it doing 1-8 dmg but acting like you where using 2 shorties. Guess that was its 1 real advantage as said before outside of enchanting since ultimately you'd have a +5 by lvl 16 anyway. You'd get the lesser penalty of smaller weapons like shorties with dmg of medium weapons of said type, longsword, battle axe, maces.

Also I don't think there should be a benefit to having a smaller weapon in the off hand. That's a parrying dagger thing. Having 2 equal sized swords (shorties, scims, longswords).. having the basic same length and weight generally makes it easier to balance your self. With a smaller weapon in the off hand your lopsided and how you go about 'dual wielding' becomes much, much different. You end up using the off as more of a feint like the parrying dagger concept and have to put most your effort into the larger weapon as you deal with the difference in weights for either hand.

Basically closer they are, the closer your going to get to anything resembling (least in my eyes) proper dual wielding. Tomahawk/1h Axe in the off hand doesn't have the same reach but has about the same weight as your sabre, lets say. And would allow for hooking of weapons, shoulders, allows for more then a dagger would while keeping your over all balance about the same. If I was going to ever dual wield for the reals, It would be just that. An Axe in off, some kind of board or sabre main. It's how I picture my Rangers dual wielding and often how i have them equipped. Axe is useful outside of combat, and makes an excellent utility off hand that still functions as a very powerful striking weapon, sword gives better reach and stabbing potential in main hand... makes a nasty combo. Plus makes sense for a rangers basic woodmen gear along with the bow for hunting.

#122
Tychoxi

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I think there should be off-hand weapons (ie. smaller, special). BUT if I want to equip two full, big, fat axes then I should be able to as long as I meet the requirements/feats/whatever and am willing to accept the penalties (I would expect bigish penalties until you reach certain levels/acquire feats/whatever, then smallish penalties).

Dual wielding, I love 'em.

Edited by Tychoxi, 23 December 2012 - 01:14 PM.


#123
Adhin

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Yeah if you got superhuman strength a sledgehammer in each hand isn't as silly. Then again sledgehammers aren't designed for combat, they're far to heavy to be practical for that job. Pickaxes for that matter are overweight in that category. Claymores only about 5 pounds, sledgehammers a good chunk over that, 10-20lb (near same for pickaxes). That said most axes are relatively light even the 2 hander variant unless your talking the faky fantasy giant disc axes. Or those huge ones I think the danes used or something. But your average 1-handed viking axe or (smaller) tomahawk can easily be off handed, very little reason to use a second hand on em.

I think folks get the wrong idea with this stuff far to often, especially weapon weight. Then again if you look at NWN weapon weight they're all roughly double there actual values (in RL and in PnP handbooks). Main reason a lot of that stuff got double weight values (such as a longsword being 8lb -.-) was they didn't have a middle weight transition like in PnP. In 3E handbook if your strength allowed say 100, at half that you got slowed down. NWN that 100lb stayed but you didn't get slowed till you hit 101, so they kinda doubled stuff. cRPG's amiright?

#124
AGX-17

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Question for the weapons geeks here (out of pure curiosity), are there any real-life counterparts to those D&D double-sided weapons, or are they a pure fantasy conceit?

Posted Image Posted Image


Pure fantasy. Absoludicrous. As likely to gore your fellows as your foes.

#125
HansKrSG

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Using two weapons have been done successfully in history, but it takes time to master such a style. I am guessing it should be harder to master using two large weapons which is also different types of weapons (flail + sword for example), but it shouldn't be impossible to use. Let it take more time and effort, but let a character who uses a lot of their allotted advancement points (feats or whatever) on this, not have any penalties in the end.

Some real life pairings:
Rapier(or other long sword) + main gauche (or dagger or sword-breaker etc.)
Katana + Wakizashi (Or longsword and shortsword)

The use of two long weapons at the same time has never been used by many, but the few that did master such styles are said to get something out of it, making it not a waste of time in a combat (or rather duelling) situation. Since in an rpg you are not playing a common soldier, I say let people who want to explore that style, do so. I care not of how many drizzt characters there are out there in a single player game.

I know this is a topic where people have strong opinions.
Lets try to agree on the following:
1: Most soldiers and fighters in history has mastered using 1 weapon at a time. (Or has died before mastering anything :p)
2: Most people who has fought with 2 weapons, have used one of them more as a parrying weapon, or used it for close quarter fighting when the combat has become too close for longer weapons.
3: Using two weapons have been done successfully, but only by people who have first mastered using one weapon in both hands.
4: This is a fantasy game where you can play a character that can achieve near perfection in any style he chooses, helped by the power of his/her soul, so lets throw real life combat books out the window.
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#126
TMTVL

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If we are talking about realism, how about making the heads of battle axes tiny in comparison to the ridiculous stuff we see in most games? And the same for warhammers as well, a'course. The warhammer used in medieval Europe was used to pierce through the helmet of your opponent, so if the head was even a bit too large, not only wouldn't you be able to swing it at even semi-decent speed, it wouldn't be as lethal.
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#127
general_azure

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To answer the original question: As long as it's bound to stat requirements (dex for pretty much everything, str for heavy stuff) and comes with some penalties due to the coordination required, you can dual wield even scythes for all I care. It just shouldn't be the style to end all styles.

Now to read those other 6 pages...
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#128
Zar

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I wouldnt implement Dual Wielding at all.


No offense but just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way. As a RPG the game should try to be as supportive all kinds of character concepts.

Plus there are many real world combat styles that use two weapons or large weapons with two ends for that matter.

#129
Osvir

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Dual Wielding, in some ways I feel it should be some sort of "activated" stance akin to "The Witcher". Being able to switch between Dual Wield stance and One Handed. This way you could hold the Katana like a two-handed sword, and mid-combat do some "hidden blade" attack or even draw the second Katana by using an ability. Likewise, I would like to be able to go into combat dual-wielding two Katanas, but be able to switch back to single-wielding mid combat.

#130
Farbautisonn

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Well ****. If melee toons can duel wield so should magic, caster types. I want to cast Chain lightening with one hand and fireball with my other. Fair is fair for Thor and Loki and stuff.
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#131
Adhin

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That... didn't make any sense. Also, ability 'use' is different then general auto-attack stuff. I don't think your going to use chain lightning as a standard auto-attack you can 'dual wield up on' or 'use both hands to make stronger'. It's a spell, it takes time, then it does a lot of dmg often on a large scale.

Unless its Skyrim, then dual wielding lightning is good stuff and combining is kinda a waste with out abusing there system.

#132
Sannom

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Well ****. If melee toons can duel wield so should magic, caster types. I want to cast Chain lightening with one hand and fireball with my other. Fair is fair for Thor and Loki and stuff.

Wasn't that called a Sequencer in Baldur's Gate 2?

#133
TMTVL

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No, a sequencer is when you store a number of spells to be cast at once. He's thinking Skyrim, obviously an example of all we want out of P:E [/SARCASM]
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#134
Osvir

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I'm thinking more like... if I'm a dual wielder irl, would I run out and fight with both of my swords out gung-ho style or would I have them sheathed? Probably sheathed. When a battle begins I would pick up one of them, because I want to test out my opponent and find weaknesses as well as learn from his style, I might bring out both of them instantly if I'm facing an opponent I realize I have to have 2 from the very beginning. But tactically it might be better to just wield 1 sword (a Katana?) with two hands for some instances. Switching between dual-wielding and two-handed. Two-Handed being strong against some enemies, dual-wielding against other.

Read "Vagabond" manga, such a great piece. It's the story of Miyamoto Musashi, well.. inspired by.

As for magic, why not? Not Skyrim magic, but P:E magic, combining two elements in your Grimoire.

#135
PrimeJunta

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Maybe you can dual-wield two grimoires. :biggrin:
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#136
Farbautisonn

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Maybe you can dual-wield two grimoires. :biggrin:


Everquest Style. I like it.
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#137
Adhin

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@Osvir: my Barb/Psion who dual wields, more often then not, uses a 2H weapon. Greatsword or a Maul (almost always holding a maul). His reasoning for the maul is just to deal with locked doors or locks and pretty much always drops it to actually fight which I, personally, always found amusing in RP since everyone expected the bulky barbarian to flail around the maul. But I always liked using a 2-hander to mess around with up till I ran into something I needed to really go all out on - if he raged, he dual wielded. Didn't matter what he was using, he'd drop his weapon and take out the bastards and rage and just go wild on whatever.

A lot of that was driven by the myth of Miyamoto Musashi, master at dual wielding but in many of his legends often used other weapons because he either just wanted to, or did so as a means to throw his opponent off. Always liked the idea of being a master at 1 thing but spending a lot of your time messing with something your inferior at for the sake of your own enjoyment. It's like when I used to play ping pong in middle school, me and a friend got a bit to good at it, and started playing left handed to have a new learning experience with the game.... and we'd still often win out against others but it ultimately was just amusing.

So yeah, I agree being able to unsheath a single weapon of your 2 as a starter with out having to have a second like weapon or other to do that would be nice. Generally less inventory management to do that kind of thing would be nice. BG had that issue with how it handled DW'ing in that once you did, you couldn't really use anything else but swap out your main hand... which is just awful. So if nothing else, hopefully each weapon set is just that, let me use a pair of swords and a 2h'er as separate sets with out inventory management mid combat.
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#138
Somna

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Maybe you can dual-wield two grimoires. :biggrin:


Everquest Style. I like it.


Bash them twice, then page flip for papercut damage?

#139
Farbautisonn

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Maybe you can dual-wield two grimoires. :biggrin:


Everquest Style. I like it.


Bash them twice, then page flip for papercut damage?


Someone hasnt played everquest.... :D.

#140
Somna

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Maybe you can dual-wield two grimoires. :biggrin:


Everquest Style. I like it.


Bash them twice, then page flip for papercut damage?


Someone hasnt played everquest.... :D.


Pfff, I never like their ornament status there.





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