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Gorth

By Gorth
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Drowsy Emperor

Drowsy Emperor

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes, pretty much the same, right down to the rabid fanboyism. And, because I'm at least marginally self aware, rabid red-rag-to-bull haterism as well. Potted version, as I'm ahead of schedule on the 5 minute hate:

 

Offering steamworks and its features for "free" (which it isn't, it's just a different type of cost; see also Facebook_piggies.gif) is a classic loss leader strategy- because bandwidth is cheap and you'll make the costs back from a single sale. The 'beneficial' stuff they do is designed to lock people into the system, eg support of modding is not in any way a Valve specific thing, it's another PC specific thing that Valve is "embracing". Instead of a console licencing fee they have the 30% purchase cut (which is actually a lot higher, at least for full priced games). You're free to buy your steam games from other places too, but they'll only run through steam itself, just as you can buy your console games from EB or WalMart but good luck getting them to run without the console. They can even 'brick' your account remotely.

 

Basically it's a software console with good PR and devoted fans; using the classic Embrace, Extend, Extinguish strategy to convert PC gaming into Steam Gaming. MS was highly generous too with free Internet Explorer and free, enhanced Java as well, and everyone knows why they did that.

 

I was going to say something of the sort but you just beat me to it.

 

Seriously though, what's the point of a PC that can only run Steam and other apps Valve "generously" gives out. The only real incentive to get a console is because its:

a) cheap (if you already own a TV, and the presumption is that you do)

b) desirable exclusives

 

I don't see Valve getting or making exclusives for their console and shutting themselves out of the PC market. I don't see PC users forsaking the platform's flexibility just to run Steam on it. After all the PC, through emulation - has the largest catalog of games there is. Everything bar a few PS3 exclusives and the new Nintendo console runs on it on through emulation or simply by being multiplatform.

To dump all that just for Valve exclusivity would be beyond stupid.

Edited by Drowsy Emperor

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Drowsy Emperor

Drowsy Emperor

Posted
Posted

As long as that means that all SteamBox (?) games will continue to run on Desktop PCs with Windows, I'm fine. Heck, I'd even encourage such a move because that means we'll get even even better and more PC ports, or even SteamBox exclusives that run on PCs by default. More options and putting the PC to the forefornt.

 

Whatever, maybe I should just trust the God Gaben more. If there's one game company out there who does pretty much everything right, it's Valve.

 

What is it that Valve does right exactly, now that I think about it? They have a damn restrictive software platform with Steam, unlike say GoG games which might not have all the perks but at least you own the product you're buying and it doesn't need their software to run it. They haven't made a groundbreaking game since the original Half Life (and please let no one say Portal, the game is about the same length and quality as a well made mod).

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Morgoth

Morgoth

Posted
Posted

As long as that means that all SteamBox (?) games will continue to run on Desktop PCs with Windows, I'm fine. Heck, I'd even encourage such a move because that means we'll get even even better and more PC ports, or even SteamBox exclusives that run on PCs by default. More options and putting the PC to the forefornt.

 

Whatever, maybe I should just trust the God Gaben more. If there's one game company out there who does pretty much everything right, it's Valve.

 

What is it that Valve does right exactly, now that I think about it? They have a damn restrictive software platform with Steam, unlike say GoG games which might not have all the perks but at least you own the product you're buying and it doesn't need their software to run it. They haven't made a groundbreaking game since the original Half Life (and please let no one say Portal, the game is about the same length and quality as a well made mod).

 

Excuse me, what exactly is restrictive about Steam?

Rain makes everything better.

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pmp10

pmp10

Posted
Posted

As long as that means that all SteamBox (?) games will continue to run on Desktop PCs with Windows, I'm fine. Heck, I'd even encourage such a move because that means we'll get even even better and more PC ports, or even SteamBox exclusives that run on PCs by default. More options and putting the PC to the forefornt.

 

Whatever, maybe I should just trust the God Gaben more. If there's one game company out there who does pretty much everything right, it's Valve.

 

What is it that Valve does right exactly, now that I think about it? They have a damn restrictive software platform with Steam, unlike say GoG games which might not have all the perks but at least you own the product you're buying and it doesn't need their software to run it. They haven't made a groundbreaking game since the original Half Life (and please let no one say Portal, the game is about the same length and quality as a well made mod).

 

Excuse me, what exactly is restrictive about Steam?

For starters you need to be online to turn on offline mode.

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Morgoth

Morgoth

Posted
Posted

No you don't.

Let me correct myself then.

You need to be online when turning on offline mode if you want it to play games.

 

When you're offline and start up Steam, it will ask you to either go online, or into Offline mode. When you click "Offline", it does.

 

Next: People are gonna complain that they can't post on the Obsidian boards while offline.

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Rain makes everything better.

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Raithe

Raithe

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Posted

Yeah, I have to admit it's quite annoying when something kills your internet, and steam tells you "steam cannot connect to the internet, do you want to restart in offline mode?"

then when you click yes, it chunders a minute before saying "cannot go offline because cannot connect to the internet.".. >_<

 

It's a very nice loop.

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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Drowsy Emperor

Drowsy Emperor

Posted
Posted (edited)

As long as that means that all SteamBox (?) games will continue to run on Desktop PCs with Windows, I'm fine. Heck, I'd even encourage such a move because that means we'll get even even better and more PC ports, or even SteamBox exclusives that run on PCs by default. More options and putting the PC to the forefornt.

 

Whatever, maybe I should just trust the God Gaben more. If there's one game company out there who does pretty much everything right, it's Valve.

 

What is it that Valve does right exactly, now that I think about it? They have a damn restrictive software platform with Steam, unlike say GoG games which might not have all the perks but at least you own the product you're buying and it doesn't need their software to run it. They haven't made a groundbreaking game since the original Half Life (and please let no one say Portal, the game is about the same length and quality as a well made mod).

 

Excuse me, what exactly is restrictive about Steam?

 

Um you can only play games you bought on it - through it as opposed to retail or services like GoG? You know, the sort of thing you didn't have to do for years before Steam showed up like having to run a client in the background just to get your games going?

 

Look, I'm not on an anti DRM crusade. Since I don't care about multiplayer or game centric communities, or play games in several different locations Steam is just a pain in the ass for me without any real advantages. If you have a particular reason why Steam is so good, that's fine.

 

To me it seems obvious that Steam is all about controlled distribution, a tool for the people making money in this hobby - not in any way about gamers. That's all well and good, I'm just not seeing real reason for enthusiasm, as a consumer.

Edited by Drowsy Emperor
  • Like 1

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Hurlshort

Hurlshort

Posted
Posted

Steam did fix the offline problems at some point, although it took a few years. I still have trouble with it on occasion. It also doesn't seem to work right for every game. It's definitely a pain in the butt if you live in an area with a spotty internet connection.

 

So yeah, that's pretty restrictive.

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Drowsy Emperor

Drowsy Emperor

Posted
Posted

And I personally like the experience of going to a brick and mortar store and buying a game. I liked it more when the boxes were bigger, but its still less alienating from my pov than digital shopping.

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Lord of Lost Socks

Lord of Lost Socks

Posted
Posted

So, apparentely SEGA has been pissing off a bunch of people on youtube. Why?

 

Because in the past few months several youtube accounts and dozens of videos featuring SEGA's Shinging series have been removed from Youtube due to SEGA copyright infringement notices. The most prominent account affected being TotalBiscuit(TotalHalibut). This includes videos that don't even contain any video of gameplay, just a person talking about gameplay.

And keep in mind, most of the videos are made by fans talking very positively about the series. I mean, it's a bloody 15 year old series or something, by now.

 

Here's a video detailing the story in detail, background info and all:

 

And here's the reddit article:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/13glp8/sega_starts_quietly_removing_youtube_users_videos/

 

What on Earth is going on with SEGA? Are they really doing this to skew the youtube search results in favour of their latest Shining game?

 

And if they can do this with Shining series, what stops them from removing Total War or Alpha Protocol videos on a whim aswell?

My thoughts on how character powers and urgency could be implemented:

http://forums.obsidi...nse-of-urgency/

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AwesomeOcelot

AwesomeOcelot

Posted
Posted
Yeah, I have to admit it's quite annoying when something kills your internet, and steam tells you "steam cannot connect to the internet, do you want to restart in offline mode?"

then when you click yes, it chunders a minute before saying "cannot go offline because cannot connect to the internet.".. >_<

 

It's a very nice loop.

 

That got fixed for me a while ago, when they said they fixed it. There were 2 work around solutions for this bug. deleting the login information file, or unplugging your network.

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AwesomeOcelot

AwesomeOcelot

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Posted
Offering steamworks and its features for "free" (which it isn't, it's just a different type of cost; see also Facebook_piggies.gif) is a classic loss leader strategy- because bandwidth is cheap and you'll make the costs back from a single sale.

 

I'm aware of what a loss leader is, but apparently you're not aware of what free is.

 

The 'beneficial' stuff they do is designed to lock people into the system, eg support of modding is not in any way a Valve specific thing, it's another PC specific thing that Valve is "embracing"

 

A lot of PC developers do not provide the same amount of modding support, that's my point, Valve is embracing it by supplying powerful tools and a distribution platform. Having a service people want to use is not locking people into a system. Also I didn't think user generated content was DRM protected through Workshop, so how is it locking in? You could install the mods like you used to.

 

Instead of a console licencing fee they have the 30% purchase cut (which is actually a lot higher, at least for full priced games).

 

That's not equivalent to the licencing fee, or instead of one, unless you think the store you buy games for your PS3 from is actually a charity.

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pmp10

pmp10

Posted
Posted (edited)

No you don't.

Let me correct myself then.

You need to be online when turning on offline mode if you want it to play games.

 

When you're offline and start up Steam, it will ask you to either go online, or into Offline mode. When you click "Offline", it does.

 

Next: People are gonna complain that they can't post on the Obsidian boards while offline.

And then you try to run New Vegas and find out it won't.

Why?

You should have switched offline mode back when you had internet connectivity.

That's steam for you.

Edited by pmp10
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Malcador

Malcador

Posted
Posted

Hm, wonder if I should move my PC to the couch.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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alanschu

alanschu

Posted
Posted

I don't lose access to my Steam Library if I lose connection to the internet. I usually get a "Connection to steam servers lost. Retrying connection" that passively sits in a chat window or the friends list. It's never been a problem for me playing games.

 

 

 

I'm aware of what a loss leader is, but apparently you're not aware of what free is.

 

He's right that Steam offers those services to get people on board to using Steam. Even if you don't utilize Steam (for a particular product), the hope is that eventually the game itself will be sold on Steam to which Valve can take a cut of the sales (which is fine IMO).

 

 

That's not equivalent to the licencing fee, or instead of one, unless you think the store you buy games for your PS3 from is actually a charity.

 

No, but it is how they have monetized their platform. Hence why they can offer stuff for free.

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AwesomeOcelot

AwesomeOcelot

Posted
Posted (edited)
He's right that Steam offers those services to get people on board to using Steam. Even if you don't utilize Steam (for a particular product), the hope is that eventually the game itself will be sold on Steam to which Valve can take a cut of the sales (which is fine IMO).

 

I didn't say he wasn't, Valve is a business, they're trying to entice people to their platform by giving away services for free so they'll spend money there, I know what a loss leader is. I'm wondering why when I point out these differences he and the others that liked his post think that this somehow negates my point that Valve operates differently. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this is Valve's model several times on this forum.

 

No, but it is how they have monetized their platform. Hence why they can offer stuff for free.

 

It's still a difference to how they operate compared to the others. I don't understand this, I never claimed Valve wasn't a profit seeking business, or that they don't want to increase their market share, of course their platform is monetized. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo do things differently, which was my point.

 

I feel as if I'm being replied to with "Well, Valve is exactly the same because they're also trying to make money", when clearly there are differences in how they go about doing that.

Edited by AwesomeOcelot
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Delfosse

Delfosse

Posted
Posted

So, apparentely SEGA has been pissing off a bunch of people on youtube. Why?

 

Because in the past few months several youtube accounts and dozens of videos featuring SEGA's Shinging series have been removed from Youtube due to SEGA copyright infringement notices. The most prominent account affected being TotalBiscuit(TotalHalibut). This includes videos that don't even contain any video of gameplay, just a person talking about gameplay.

And keep in mind, most of the videos are made by fans talking very positively about the series. I mean, it's a bloody 15 year old series or something, by now.

 

Here's a video detailing the story in detail, background info and all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQdFcf9SE5s

 

And here's the reddit article:

http://www.reddit.co...e_users_videos/

 

What on Earth is going on with SEGA? Are they really doing this to skew the youtube search results in favour of their latest Shining game?

 

And if they can do this with Shining series, what stops them from removing Total War or Alpha Protocol videos on a whim aswell?

 

You'll find no support on this forum, people in here are fanatical apologists of everything copyright related. They'll probably ban you or something if you keep posting about this.

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BruceVC

BruceVC

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Posted

 

You'll find no support on this forum, people in here are fanatical apologists of everything copyright related. They'll probably ban you or something if you keep posting about this.

 

Yeah we are weird like that, we believe people should actually pay for things they don't own and they want to utilize or benefit from. Like games for example

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Malcador

Malcador

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Posted

 

Hm, not feeling very excited about that. Wonder if they'll have the song in it though.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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