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How would you like your Elves: regular or extra crispy?

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No, thank you, I'm fed up with extra crispy elves:

 

Man, did those two ever get smacked with the Ugly Stick. *longs for graceful, elegant elves once more*


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Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forests and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoors experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person.----Fred Bear

 

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I liked Tolkien's elves in Mirkwood. Their personalities were more balanced than the other elf societies. They were greedy, gluttonous, sometimes foolish, sometimes downright cruel. They had very distinctive Elven characteristics, such as being lighthearted, mischievous, and nature loving, but without falling into the trap of being boringly perfect. I think there's plenty of room for Obsidian to take an interesting direction with the elves while still adhering to some of the conventions.

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Tolkien did base much of his lore on norse myths, with his own twist. Yet norse do not have copyright on all things elven. Many other cultures have elves. Germanic version prevails. We call him "Vilenyak" and term is not generic one, as it typically differs per story today from original mythology. Today vilenjak prevails as any sentient being that is magical, mystical and not really human, at least that is my observation.

 

Seems we do know how elfs will look like in PE. Judging from concept art of elven/elf character in concept art, PE seems to stick to more traditional tolkien fantasy design. Tall, slender, magical affinity High Elf kind. Now, what interest evryone is what mentality these elf are going to be?


magic021.jpg

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Now, what interest evryone is what mentality these elf are going to be?

 

From what I've red, there will be multiple cultures of pretty much every race, so we can't really say now. There will, however, be a state (forgot the name) where humans and elves live together and have the same culture.

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Now, what interest evryone is what mentality these elf are going to be?

 

From what I've red, there will be multiple cultures of pretty much every race, so we can't really say now. There will, however, be a state (forgot the name) where humans and elves live together and have the same culture.

 

Hmmm, interesting. Sounds like something from Arcanum.

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You know what I hate? How not only are they dying/leaving the world, but that everyone in the world accepts it as fate and a good thing because its the 'Time of Man' or some other bollocks and that elves who reject this are viewed as evil even by humans. Yet if the situation was reversed, if it was humanity who were dying off it would be the heroic quest to save them, to fight against fate! I find this one sided, hypocritical and basically wank. Even the The Witcher series portray the elven fight for freedom in a bad light. If we have to have this in the game then I want to see the elves fighting to save themselves, portrayed in a heroic light as they fight the human scum! Humans shouldn't have a monopoly over heroic fights for survival.

 

so you're saying you're a race traitor?


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I would like to see neither. Instead of following a cliche I want my Elves in PE to actually have some depth and be more than just a Tolkien throwback or a blatant attempt to go in a totally different direction. I have no problem if Legolas and Elrond (figuratively speaking) show up as long as there is also a Elf who loves the City, one who drinks ale with the best of them and not because of some insane racial superiority, and Elves who are manipulative or greedy out for themselves, you get the idea.

 

Shelve the idea of a racial concept and let Elves be individuals like Humans. Of course the stunties still need to be short little buggers with beards for brains who are only good at digging holes and getting drunk though!

 

(just kidding, about the Dwarves anyway.... mostly)

 

I sort of agree with this. I think it's better if races are only loosely confined by their innate abilities, and are more individual than we usually see. A racial group might have a certain history and reputation as per racism, but it shouldn't be confining as it usually is.

 

I sort of agree and sort of don't. When 'race' amounts to elves and dwarves rather than skin color, the implication is that these are entirely different species. A dwarf isn't a vertically challenged human. A dwarf is a dwarf. The same goes with an elf or any of the other races. When you remove 'racial concepts' entirely, all you've got is a bunch of humans divided by how pointy their ears are or how tall they are, which is pretty boring.

 

Which isn't to say 'likes to drink ale, speak in a Scottish accent and use an axe or warhammer' should be an in-born dwarven trait, or that there shouldn't be members of a race who stray well outside the norm. It is merely to say that there should be some commonalities in thought and behavior between members of a certain race to remind us that these races are not just humans with minor physical differences.

 

This is where knowing biology and physiology can really help. Being able to know how races are distinguished in the animal kindgom can help you come up with truly well-thought out racial creatures.

 

A very basic example is the horse, the donkey, and the mule. These are all horse-like creatures, but have truly different physiologies and biologies. In fact, the horse and donkey mating create the mule, a creature that while a hybrid cannot reproduce. Imagine a world where half-elves are sterile. Or half-dwarves.

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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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You know what I hate? How not only are they dying/leaving the world, but that everyone in the world accepts it as fate and a good thing because its the 'Time of Man' or some other bollocks and that elves who reject this are viewed as evil even by humans. Yet if the situation was reversed, if it was humanity who were dying off it would be the heroic quest to save them, to fight against fate! I find this one sided, hypocritical and basically wank. Even the The Witcher series portray the elven fight for freedom in a bad light. If we have to have this in the game then I want to see the elves fighting to save themselves, portrayed in a heroic light as they fight the human scum! Humans shouldn't have a monopoly over heroic fights for survival.

 

so you're saying you're a race traitor?

 

Yep! Filthy human scum! ;)

 

What I guess I'm saying is that the same standards should be applied to all: if something like fighting for existence is good enough for humanity then it should be good enough for others to do so the same. I mean, how would you feel if you were born into a world where apparently your right to exist has already expired simply for being the wrong race? As great as it must sound for humanity in these worlds where they are apparently destined to inherit the world just for being awesome it must be wank for anyone with the bad fortune to be born as something else.

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"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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What I guess I'm saying is that the same standards should be applied to all: if something like fighting for existence is good enough for humanity then it should be good enough for others to do so the same. I mean, how would you feel if you were born into a world where apparently your right to exist has already expired simply for being the wrong race? As great as it must sound for humanity in these worlds where they are apparently destined to inherit the world just for being awesome it must be wank for anyone with the bad fortune to be born as something else.

 

Tolkien at least did this in a perfectly acceptable fashion: elves weren't really dying out or anything, just heading overseas to Valinor, which all things considered sounds like a pretty awesome place to be. Saying 'yeah, you guys can have this place, we're going to another place which is better than anything you losers have over here, and no you can't follow us' is far more understandable than just accepting that your race is dying and you need to make way for the humans.

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Yep! Filthy human scum! ;)

 

What I guess I'm saying is that the same standards should be applied to all: if something like fighting for existence is good enough for humanity then it should be good enough for others to do so the same. I mean, how would you feel if you were born into a world where apparently your right to exist has already expired simply for being the wrong race? As great as it must sound for humanity in these worlds where they are apparently destined to inherit the world just for being awesome it must be wank for anyone with the bad fortune to be born as something else.

 

If our lives spanned millenia, I'm pretty sure we would all grow increasingly introspective and eventually just resign from the world.

Maybe spend our days in quiet meditation, not too worried about anything, because we've already seen it all before - war, famine, pestilence. It is what it is.

That, or commit suicide.

 

Most elves should have learned the virtue of patience, maybe even a little too well. Even the young elves, because the longevity of their race must have had an impact on their culture, their religion/s and philosophies. If something threatens them, they would most likely weigh their options very carefully before springing into action.

Maybe some wouldn't act at all, having come to terms with their fate. Perhaps fighting back right away would be considered brash and immature (looking at you, Revan).

I think there's something very fascinating about that kind of aloof composure. Very Zen.

 

I do agree that they shouldn't all just roll over and die. They should fight back, but not like the Scoia'tael did. Their actions were far too short-sighted for such a long-lived race IMO.

No, the elves should have a Plan. The kind that spans human generations. The kind that We can barely fathom.

Revolutions, aggressive imperialism, and general warmongering is for races with much briefer lifespans; races who don't have to think of all the long-term consequences of their actions, because they won't live to see them.

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"We have nothing to fear but fear itself! Apart from pain... and maybe humiliation. And obviously death and failure. But apart from fear, pain, humiliation, failure, the unknown and death, we have nothing to fear but fear itself!"

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I've never played a game where elves didn't bug me, so I prefer them extra crispy... like... burnt to a crisp.

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"It is an extraordinary act of courage to come to know a stranger's pain. To even consider such a thing demands a profound dispensation, a willingness to wear someone else's chains, to taste their suffering, to see with one's own eyes the hue cast on all things -- the terrible stain that is despair."

 

-Tulas Shorn

"Toll the Hounds" by Steven Erikson

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I would like to see some branch of Elves holding on their ancient traditions and mindset. Like, some fraction of elven isolationists, who lives on piece of their own land, which they defend wildly, aggressively even from any outside threat or merchantile contact, who remember times when humans was a cave dwellers and refuse to see them otherways, but in the same time they consider themselves the only true descendants of their race who upkept all their traditions and didnt make a single step back, nor bended their backs to adapt, they stayed truthful to what they were, kinda like grandparents clutching on memories how great it was in their days while their grandchildren who havent seen those days may or may not think so, just in more extreme way and being elvishly stubborn beyond common norm. To add some spice they can also be depicted as having (for modern counter-races) strange and mostly incomprehensible customs and behavior, but the Main Hero is in one point supposed to gain acces in there, mayhap? I dunno just a quick idea.

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"Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel?

Pain. Pain, when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they had escaped. Pain of having to live! There will be no more pain. There will be... no more chaos."

 

 

Kerghan the Terrible,

first of the Necromancers,

voyager in the Lands of the Dead.

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Ideally i'd like the elves to be non existent, much prefer different cultures, races and creeds of humanity.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Time and lifespan are a person's perception of time is very very subjective. Many people live to only being 60 or 70 and gain wisdom in that time, but feel like they've only been on Earth for the blink of an eye. Others live only until 30 and live a very fulfilled life. Others live till they're 80 and are just as ignorant and unfulfilled at 80 as they were at 20.

 

What I'm trying to say is that time flies and, perspectively, is as much a function of your memory as it is about how well you lived your life. How many of you remember your first time playing an IE game as if it was yesterday? Maybe for some of you it was yesterday, but for a lot of you the first time might have been some years ago.

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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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There are several traits that define elves; Slender, beautiful, dignified, arrogant, noble and long lived. I believe them all to be important to the idea behind the elves. Straying from this and trying to be too original usually just ends up badly. If you don't get a really brilliant vision that somewhat ties the world perfectly together, don't venture too far away from the basic concept. This basic principle applies just about everywhere; trying to be different just for the sake of being different is rather stupid.


The most important step you take in your life is the next one.

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There are several traits that define elves; Slender, beautiful, dignified, arrogant, noble and long lived. I believe them all to be important to the idea behind the elves. Straying from this and trying to be too original usually just ends up badly. If you don't get a really brilliant vision that somewhat ties the world perfectly together, don't venture too far away from the basic concept. This basic principle applies just about everywhere; trying to be different just for the sake of being different is rather stupid.

 

I don't think most of these are entirely workable though for an entire species though, let alone an entire sentient one. Perhaps Elves tend to be these things relative to an equivical human, but the idea that there are no overweight, ugly, clumsy, shy or poor elves just doesn't have any internal consistancy. Even in Tolkien, where the Elves border on demigods you are only seeing the elf nobility, you just don't see the Elves whose job it is to, say, farm or empty all the elf-privies.

 

I do think that you have to have the possibility of at least some of those or it brings up some weird implications for elves reacting with the other races; you could go a weird root and make Elves an entire species which is the social equivelant of gossip magazine culture, eg. anything that doesn't look like a supermodel is considered fat and ugly, so in general, they regard 99% of humans as ugly and common, and as for dwarves...

 

You could bring in the idea of Elven glamour which is a staple of the species, so Elves aren't actually all of those things that much more than normal humans, but they produce some sort of effect (psychic? magical?) which makes everyone else think they are...

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I am mostly used to Tolkien elves as evryone else, but taking inspiration from so many mythologies, elves are sometimes described as tricksters. Just as there are different races of humans, add different elvf races, but not just traditionally wood elf and high elves kind, but more like "god like" species. Maybe whom first elves come from. Than you could have elven species, those that mostly resemble humans and some other like that elf from Harry Potter.


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Good elf is dead.

 

Best races are strongly connected to world lore, which may make problems if we just make races as stat templates. But it is not big deal, just lost opportunity.

 

Having option to make skinny pale, unnatural character is always good no matter what racial tag you stamp it on. If there is time for it it is nice to be able to really design your character, like making it really big, or very skinny and pale and pointy ear. Pointy ears and cat eyes look good. And i generally pick in such games the most pointy haircut possibly violet hairdye. Cant say no to that. 

 

I like crazy races. If we play fantasy, might as well go all out with it.

So Elves faerie are good. Or elves dryads. Or immortal ancient elves which are not exacly playable race.

I like drows since they have different approach to many things. Maybe they are evil, but at least hipster.

In PoE crazy race is Godlike, and there is opportunity to make godlike great again. Have some unique feats, and dialogue option or quest not avaiable to more common race.

 

They may be other crazy races aswell. Tieflings are cool. Beastmen. Dragonfolk.Beasts from Tyranny was cool.

 

But i think it would be best to focus on making Godlike unique gameplay. And maybe think of one culture which is really different from classis europe medieval.

Edited by evilcat

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We all know the classic fantasy elf, what you might call the Tolkienesque elf. Immortal (or nearly immortal), in touch with nature, given to frolicking and laughing and living in tree houses and the like. Pointy ears and beautiful. Used to have a vast empire but are currently dying out and/or leaving the mortal world for someplace magical and wondrous that lowly humans can't go. Tend to use lots of bows, be extraordinarily adept with magical stuff and not get along with dwarves.

 

You know the drill. Most of the elves we've seen in fantasy have been variations of this, with differences to account for setting.

 

But it has seemed to dawn on a number of writers, extending back for quite some time, that the typical fantasy elf can be goddamn annoying. They get under the skin for the same reason people despise the Mary Sue: anyone or anything, even an entire race, which comes across as the writer trying to force perfectly pure pureness and goodness down your throat tends to create a gag reflex. If a person or a race is good at everything and everyone loves them except for the misinformed or the evil, who typically hate them because of jealousy, then there will be a backlash.

 

With this in mind, we have seen wild variations of Elf Classic, ranging from Dragon Age and its Jew Elves (no longer the Master Race, now living in ghettos and treated as second class citizens) to Skyrim and its Nazi Elves (pretending to be the master race, hated by everyone) and so on. The subversion of Elf Classic has become almost as prevalent as Elf Classic itself.

 

So, long post made short, how would you like your elves served in P:E? Are you looking for your typical fantasy elf? A subversion of your typical fantasy elf? What kind of elf makes you happy and what kind makes you gag?

I would agree with you for the most part, but it is clear you haven't read the Silmarillion. Tolkien's elves have never had a vast empire - they have, as Galadriel says, always been fighting the 'long defeat'. And certainly Faenor and his ilk would never be caught dead frolicking. Post-Tolkien elves tend to be baudlerised misinterpretations of his elves, who are actually very dark. It is stated often that they prefer darkness to light, for instance (they call Men 'night-fearers'), and Sam always describes them as 'fair but sad'. 

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