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Magic Mechanics that annoy you

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Hey

 

Even though we have no specific information regarding how magic system will exactly work, I have been thinking about what magic systems I would like to see get some attention.

 

Buffs - My main problem here is the time spent applying buffs on a regular basis after rest/before battle/before conversation/pick you system. Can we have some buff-dedicated slots that would refresh automatically as long as I have the spell memorized? I had an idea that would work in BG - Imagine sacrificing one spell slot to have one spell permanently(within limits) activated. I would gladly sacrifice a LVL1 and LVL2 slots, to have for example Shield and Blur always active.

 

Magic balance - I admit this is a very difficult thing to do, but I would like to see it get some attention. My problem here is the difference between melee classes and magic classes in regards to their hindrance in the world. Through the dozens of RPGs I have played as a caster, you find more than one enemy that is immune or extremely resistant to your magic however you never encounter an enemy that would be immune to melee. Of course there are exceptions to both sides (but these are rare and usually include very powerfull enemies that would have both immunities) however I feel that the enemies that are immune to mgic outweigh hose that are immune to melee.

 

What other magic system do you feel you would like to have removed/added/adjusted?

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Buffs - My main problem here is the time spent applying buffs on a regular basis after rest/before battle/before conversation/pick you system. Can we have some buff-dedicated slots that would refresh automatically as long as I have the spell memorized? I had an idea that would work in BG - Imagine sacrificing one spell slot to have one spell permanently(within limits) activated. I would gladly sacrifice a LVL1 and LVL2 slots, to have for example Shield and Blur always active.

 

Passive Auras hmm... could work. Chanter/Bard would be focused on this (I believe).

 

On your other point with Magic Balance, I often encounter enemies in Baldur's Gate that my melee can't take down (at all). Melee Immunity in Baldur's Gate can be a real trouble but as you say it is rather near non-existent (just a few enemies, I don't know about BG2). In Icewind Dale there were lots of enemies that were immune (like the last Boss *shakes fist*)

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I think DAO sustained spells and abilities are a great design. You sacrifice a portion of your mana pool (eg 20%) to constantly keep an aura or buff. I don't know what magic system PE will have but I will definitely support "activate and constantly keep at a cost" type of spells.

 

Magic balance is tricky. In IE games mages are generally the kings of battlefield with other classes being cannon fodder. The infamous mage duels encounters in which the outcome of a fight is decided mostly by spell casters. Personally I find it awesome yet it didn't seem very balanced :)

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Only boring people get bored

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What bugs me is that in giving each spell, buffs the graphical treatment the dev. deem approapriate and the processors nowadays can handle it. Sometimes there are half a dozen effect on 1 character and there are like half a doezen character on screen and basically blot out everything. Think NWN2, and some of the MMO.

 

Developers, pardon me for paraphasing Uncle Ben from Spider Man. With great processing power come great responsibility ; )

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I personally never liked the memorization system of spells. As a limiter, it definitely works, just saying it's not my fave thing in the world.

 

In terms of buffs, you could have it cost a lot of power/soul/stamina or whatever, but you can recast it on top of itself as long as you have the resource .... and each recast increases the duration. Not the benefit, just the duration. So if you feel like standing around for 10 minutes regening resource/recasting, you might get that light armor buff to last 15 minutes, but if you don't feel like standing around, you can use it like "usual" (eg, just before combat as a short term benefit) - your choice.

 

Or as mentioned above, the always-on/always taking up resource route.


“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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In BG2, golems were basically immune to weapons not of a certain weapon damage threshold or greater. They were also basically immune to spells without a spell tor remove that.

 

I think spell/physical immune enemies add a fun element to strategy - but they should not be in abundance.

 

And in ARPGs (like Diablo), immune enemies suck. Or at least, enemies that can be immune to multiple things. One immunity is probably enough. Never go over two. Diablo 3 is infamous for its random monsters that spawned with all the "immune" mods on them (humorously invulnerable).

 

Spells that grant temporary immunity or invulnerability are fine.

Edited by anubite

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I hated having to cast spells if I was trying to play real-time. Some way of making sure that accessing the grimoire/spells is fairly easy would be great.


My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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I don't like having 5 spells that are essentially stronger versions of each other, leads to a bunch of never used spells.

I don't like spells that have no counter. (When it comes to disables, obviously damage spells can be countered by armor and hp)

I don't like having to memorize spells and rest.

I don't like having one spell ultimately overpower the rest.

I don't like spamming magic missles.

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Underwhelming spells (for balance reasons)

 

Nothing annoys me more when my mage has reached a high level that effectively makes him some sort of arch mage in that world and still the most powerfull spells at his disposal still fail to obliterate most common foes.

If my 9th level spell "Solar Incineration" (I'm making this up) opens up a portal to the center of the sun then I'm not really satisfied if enemies take 40 damage over 10 seconds in a 20ft AoE. At least not if most standard enemies have 40+ hit points and therefore can take the entire spell duration and not die.

 

I know this is usually done because often the game allows you to cast those spells multiple times per engagement and spamming powerful spells with multiple mages might make the game a cakewalk. But seeing mere goblins (or whatever) eat multiple fireballs makes magic seem really unimpressive.

So what I'm saying is: Make really powerful spells slow to cast, have them be limited to a few uses per day, give them long cooldowns or make them rare and hard to acquire but if I manage to pull such a spell of then I want to see that lowlevel group of gnolls basically implode upon themselves.

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Underwhelming spells (for balance reasons)

 

Nothing annoys me more when my mage has reached a high level that effectively makes him some sort of arch mage in that world and still the most powerfull spells at his disposal still fail to obliterate most common foes.

If my 9th level spell "Solar Incineration" (I'm making this up) opens up a portal to the center of the sun then I'm not really satisfied if enemies take 40 damage over 10 seconds in a 20ft AoE. At least not if most standard enemies have 40+ hit points and therefore can take the entire spell duration and not die.

 

I know this is usually done because often the game allows you to cast those spells multiple times per engagement and spamming powerful spells with multiple mages might make the game a cakewalk. But seeing mere goblins (or whatever) eat multiple fireballs makes magic seem really unimpressive.

So what I'm saying is: Make really powerful spells slow to cast, have them be limited to a few uses per day, give them long cooldowns or make them rare and hard to acquire but if I manage to pull such a spell of then I want to see that lowlevel group of gnolls basically implode upon themselves.

God yes! This. So much this. Everytime I cast a level 9 spell I remember thinking to myself, "That was extremely unsatisfying." Where are the charred remains of my enemies?! More than half of them are still standing!

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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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Buffs - My main problem here is the time spent applying buffs on a regular basis after rest/before battle/before conversation/pick you system. Can we have some buff-dedicated slots that would refresh automatically as long as I have the spell memorized? I had an idea that would work in BG - Imagine sacrificing one spell slot to have one spell permanently(within limits) activated. I would gladly sacrifice a LVL1 and LVL2 slots, to have for example Shield and Blur always active.

 

I'd much rather they limit/ eliminate rest spamming. In that case you don't want to cast all your buffs right away all the time.

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1) Ill agree to the above. If I get that imba über spell of doom that mage "x" used to lay waste an entire army in the lore, then I want it to lay waste to an entire army. I want it to destroy maim and kill. I dont care how hard it is to research or create, or if it takes flawless "River" diamonds to cast. I want it.

 

2) Spell animations. I know Im likely a minority here but I loved the PS:T animations. If there is time to make an animation for the highest level spells Id fellate to it (sorry for the mental image). Have it as an option at least Prz.

 

3) Give me spells that might seem redundant or spells that I can research for specific NPCs, good or nefarious purposes. The stronghold spell of "blessings of the hamster" that causes all plantlife to grow twice as fast which means I can get twice the crops, or "Swamp of no hope" where I turn the entire surrounding area into a deathtrap for any invading army (also destroying the peasents and other rabbles homes).

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I don't like having 5 spells that are essentially stronger versions of each other, leads to a bunch of never used spells.

Totally agree.

"Armor 1" - +4 to AC, clvl required, 1

"Armor 2" - +6 to AC, clvl required, 5

"Armor 3" - +8 to AC, clvl required, 8

 

....or whatever stats the game uses.

 

Argh. :)


“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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I prefer Vancian magic over the "mana points" concept as it forces one to think strategically and tactically regarding which spells and how many of each your wizard chooses to memorize on any given day.

 

In a magic-related vein, immunities are a variable I'd like to see minimized. I don't mind resistances of appropriate levels, but I'd like to see that immunities are kept to a bare minumum in P:E.

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Vancian magic would be my least liked magic system. It might work in a P&P enviroment as a handy limiter, but in a CRPG a mana or fatigue system works much better. Even pre-loaded spells that come in handy scrolls or require a pre-cast time with mana/stamina cost work better IMO.

 

Secondly, have scalable spells instead of multiple similar spells for the same thing. If my wizard has a basic "Arcane Veil" spell, make it more powerful by either increasing it based on skills, allowing extra time and stamina to be used on it or allowing the spelltome to be enlargened directly (or all at the same time), instead of having an "Arcane Veil 1/2/3/4..." spells or "Mighty Arcane Veil", "Superior Arcane Veil" etc.

 

 

Also, please keep resistances as rare things or at least the complete immunities. They can screw over a wizard way too badly. Or whatever it's resisting/immune to.

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Underwhelming spells (for balance reasons)

 

Nothing annoys me more when my mage has reached a high level that effectively makes him some sort of arch mage in that world and still the most powerfull spells at his disposal still fail to obliterate most common foes.

If my 9th level spell "Solar Incineration" (I'm making this up) opens up a portal to the center of the sun then I'm not really satisfied if enemies take 40 damage over 10 seconds in a 20ft AoE. At least not if most standard enemies have 40+ hit points and therefore can take the entire spell duration and not die.

 

I know this is usually done because often the game allows you to cast those spells multiple times per engagement and spamming powerful spells with multiple mages might make the game a cakewalk. But seeing mere goblins (or whatever) eat multiple fireballs makes magic seem really unimpressive.

So what I'm saying is: Make really powerful spells slow to cast, have them be limited to a few uses per day, give them long cooldowns or make them rare and hard to acquire but if I manage to pull such a spell of then I want to see that lowlevel group of gnolls basically implode upon themselves.

 

To be fair, if your spell opened a portal to the center of the sun then you'd all be dead.

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I don't know if I'd call this is an annoyance, but spell selection in a game can start to feel like a loadout for an airstrike. In effect. magic seems like a (slightly weird) form of technology. Magic should feel non-scientific, which means is should be unpredictable, inexplicable, and almost chaotic in nature. Hence, using it as a mundane adventuring tool should have consequences.

 

For example, I'd like to see some type of mysterious drawback for relying on the same set of spells over and over. As if you were burning a hole in your arcane linkages from overuse of certain spell patterns. Perhaps a spell becomes weaker and more inconsistent after a certain number of uses per level.

Edited by rjshae
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I definitely want the game to stay away from the Vancian system. It's just too tedious, and it makes the mage class feel like it's constantly in a state of attrition. I'd rather have each fight be it's own tactical challenge (Which is basically how it was in BG, as you just rested after each fight) than have a system that applies the majority of it's difficulty through rapidly eroding characters.

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I really don't like insignificant static buffs like +5% to health or +3% to damage or whatever, they give the game the sort of mumorpeger feeling. Which makes no sense in single player games at all.

 

What I really like is powerful buffs which limit the mages ability to cast by an upkeep of sorts. It makes you think if you want to go into all-out magical carnage or strengthen your melee damage or defence or whatever instead.

 

Not to forget powerful attack spells. I don't mind long casting times, susceptibility to interrupts (with potentially devastating effects), AoE effects which do not discriminate friend from foe, al long as I am able to unload (at least, in theory) a completely decimating spell with my mage to run the tide of battle.

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I'd probably like it more if buffs only affected your status against the opponents who are actually present when they are cast. Then again, I'm sure that could backfire somehow.

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I really don't like spells just being handed to me on a silver platter. I've always preferred the method of seeking out components (which are used) in combination with recipes that I discover on my own. There's something very satisfying about using magic that I feel like I've developed from scratch.

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I really don't like spells just being handed to me on a silver platter. I've always preferred the method of seeking out components (which are used) in combination with recipes that I discover on my own. There's something very satisfying about using magic that I feel like I've developed from scratch.

 

I would love this system. This is one of the reasons why I prefered magic of Daggerfall and Morrowind to Oblivion and Skyrim. One example - If you ever played Morrowind, outside the village you start in, falls a mage from the sky and dies. He created a spell that boosts his jumping abilities to an insane degree and allown him to basically jump around the continent. I have actually undergone (roleplayed) a project with my own mage, that would use the game's magic system to replicate the same abilities (without editor or any other cheating). After a lot of research and tries and failures, I actually did it :D and it worked without the Death on Arrival effect. I was extermely proud of myself and I loved that the magic system actually allowed me to do this without cheating. I never got the same feeling from Oblivion or Skyrim, the magic got very limited there.

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I don't know if I'd call this is an annoyance, but spell selection in a game can start to feel like a loadout for an airstrike. In effect. magic seems like a (slightly weird) form of technology. Magic should feel non-scientific, which means is should be unpredictable, inexplicable, and almost chaotic in nature. Hence, using it as a mundane adventuring tool should have consequences.

 

For example, I'd like to see some type of mysterious drawback for relying on the same set of spells over and over. As if you were burning a hole in your arcane linkages from overuse of certain spell patterns. Perhaps a spell becomes weaker and more inconsistent after a certain number of uses per level.

 

ROBERT-CARLYLE_320x240.jpg

 

"Magic always has a price, deary."

 

-Rumpel from Once Upon a Time


My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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