Problem with making new quests

[BasaltineBadger]

Obsidian said that the P:E is going to be mod-friendly. I see slight problem with that because there is no space to make new quests. When you consider RPGs the ones that had the most player created content was NVN and Bethesda games. NVN made it very easy to make new quests because of toolkit and lego-like world structure and games like Morrowind had lot of empty spaces to place quests. The problem with BG-like games is that since the background is hand-drawn it's hard to make new locations for players and everything is full of content so it's pretty hard to place something in already-existing locations.

[Hellfell]

I predict mods for PE will include new NPC companions, items, nudity, balance mods. No new areas or quests... Until the TOEE Circle of Eight dudes come in.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Hellfell

[BasaltineBadger]

Putting some generic backgrounds/locations in the game would probably help when I think about it.

[JOG]

The infinity engine games have many mods even without any support, ranging from mechanical changes all the way to mini-quests companions alnd large quests with new (recycled) areas. Making new, good-looking areas, especially large ones is the hardest bit in this kind of engine, but we've already seen in NWN2 as opposed to NWN1 and Oblivion, FO3, FO:NV and Skyrim as opposed to Morrowind, that when the 3D scenarios get more complex, the number of modded areas will drop as well. Of course voice acting is an issue as well, but even when there is voice-acting, new areas are quite rare.

 

I couldn't paint anything better than a stick-man to save my life, but I'm rather good at copy-pasting images with tiny modifications to hide my meddling. So I think I'll be able to create new interiors out of a couple of original ones, but an all-new area or a very large one will be completely beyond my abilities.

 

Of course smaller scale quests don't neccessarily need new areas, you can just as well place NPCs and quest items in existing places.

 

As for nudity, I think (hope) there will be no manga-hooker mods in this game (beyond portraits, maybe), as the characters are simply too small to see any details.

Edited October 31, 2012 by JOG

[Starglider]

You can always pull maps, or chunks of maps from other 2D games and scale them to match. I'd be more concerned about the lighting and pathing systems, and how easy it is to get them running on modder-made maps.

[Frisk]

We might see some new quests set in the two cities, but involving existing (or new) NPCs. There is also the matter of the nearly 200 people who paid for the opportunity to add new NPCs or items to the game - I would not be too surprised if some of them decided to write a quest involving "their" NPC, even if it does not involve adding a new area.

 

Anyhow, we don't know yet how hard it will be to add new stuff....we should have a better idea in a year or so.

[TheDogProfessor]

The difficulty in creating new areas doesn't seem to be a problem for the vibrant IE modding communities. Seriously, however, the modding communities are awesome. Spellhold Sudios and Gibberlings3 are two great ones from off the top of my head. There are crazy talented modders out there that have created their own interfaces to mod the IE games (which have no modding support) and there are several out there who altered the hardcode in the engine. Give them a look; it's well worth it.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Ape_Style

[Hassat Hunter]

Obsidian said that the P:E is going to be mod-friendly. I see slight problem with that because there is no space to make new quests.

Even with the rest of the post, I see absolutel no way how these 2 lines are releated.

 

With 2 cities, 15 mega dungeons and MORE, what more space do you NEED?

[Pipyui]

I suspect what BasaltineBadger was getting at is that if the world were pieced together from the vanilla scenes, where does one fit in their own without interupting it? I should think an issue like this could be easily handled with a carriage service, or something. Otherwise, extra content entrances would have to be very cleverly placed on the original scenes. The trouble is this extra content wouldn't meld with the vanilla world.

[TCJ]

I'm guessing that there will be more than enough space to add in new quests. After all, I'd think that the developers would tend to go for having extra space that they don't get around to using entirely as opposed to not making enough areas for the content they need. Modders will be able to fill in those spaces.

[Hassat Hunter]

In a BG(2) like exploration scene just plot in another map (They did with Durlag).

Who tells the difference if it was there vanilla or not unless they know or the quality is obviously very different?

Edited November 3, 2012 by Hassat Hunter

[JayDGee]

I predict mods for PE will include new NPC companions, items, nudity, balance mods. No new areas or quests... Until the TOEE Circle of Eight dudes come in.

Sadly you are correct. I remember trying to find Dragon Age mods and having to go through about 40 nude mods before I found something useful.

 

I deserve a reward for avoiding the easy masturbation jokes

[Pipyui]

I predict mods for PE will include new NPC companions, items, nudity, balance mods. No new areas or quests... Until the TOEE Circle of Eight dudes come in.

Sadly you are correct. I remember trying to find Dragon Age mods and having to go through about 40 nude mods before I found something useful.

 

Still better than the nudity and anime mods I have to sift through in TES mods.

[JayDGee]

I predict mods for PE will include new NPC companions, items, nudity, balance mods. No new areas or quests... Until the TOEE Circle of Eight dudes come in.

Sadly you are correct. I remember trying to find Dragon Age mods and having to go through about 40 nude mods before I found something useful.

 

Still better than the nudity and anime mods I have to sift through in TES mods.

 

who thought snake and cat women needed 40dd's anyway?

[Frisk]

Still better than the nudity and anime mods I have to sift through in TES mods.

 

The demand for nudity mods will probably be lower than in many other games, as the isometric view (possibly with limited zoom) means that means that players will not really be...uhm...enjoying the view up close anyhow.

[Pipyui]

The demand for nudity mods will probably be lower than in many other games, as the isometric view (possibly with limited zoom) means that means that players will not really be...uhm...enjoying the view up close anyhow.

 

I'm afraid that won't stop many from trying. I mean, who would make a nude mod for DAO for anything except the romance conclusions? Still, there are several of them. Plus you have the inventory screens, which will likely have model views of your characters. There may end up being fewer nude mods, but we all know that they'll still top the mod popularity charts.

 

But I digress. My biggest fear about making new quests is that we won't get a toolkit. This results in mods that just modify content instead of adding it, as evidenced by DAO (Bioware/EA's biggest failure there, I believe). I honestly think that a good toolkit can make an IP from silver to gold.

[Tigranes]

There were many, many, many great mods for the BG series even though the tools were hideously mod-unfriendly. (Who remembers manually penciling the walkmeshes in the map files?) All they need to do is ensure scripts, data compilation and such things are mod-friendly. They can't do anything about the difficulty of painted backgrounds, but there can still be many great mods adding characters, gameplay, new character rules, spells, entirely new quests, etc.

[Pipyui]

Are quests and NPCs that easy to script into a game without a toolkit? I've only ever created mods on TES games, so I honestly don't know.

[JayDGee]

Still better than the nudity and anime mods I have to sift through in TES mods.

 

The demand for nudity mods will probably be lower than in many other games, as the isometric view (possibly with limited zoom) means that means that players will not really be...uhm...enjoying the view up close anyhow.

Sadly I think you are underestimating the depravity of rpg fans

[rjshae]

Still better than the nudity and anime mods I have to sift through in TES mods.

 

The demand for nudity mods will probably be lower than in many other games, as the isometric view (possibly with limited zoom) means that means that players will not really be...uhm...enjoying the view up close anyhow.

It might actually be somewhat fun to allow nudity in the main game and have NPCs react accordingly. I mean it's not like you're going to be seeing much detail anyway, and the social responses would be entertaining.

 

If there is more detail in the inventory paperdoll view, they can always add fig leaves.

Edited November 5, 2012 by rjshae

[Hassat Hunter]

There probably will be nudity portrait characters created though (since they probably still are handcrafted, not horrible 3D representations). So easy to fill those slots for that need. Then again there are millions of potential pics to use for that slot/purpose.

 

Also pretty sure they said a modkit would be released right? Or did I read wrong?

If not, we should hope for some decent toolmakers. Modding KOTOR(2) goes fine with what some excellent people made up to help us with...

[Tigranes]

I don't know specifically what tools will be available, since that depends on what can be done with Unity 3D to begin with, what third party tools they plug in (including Obsidian's own), and how much resources they can put into mod support (though they will certainly try - wasn't it a stretch goal?). My point is that BG2 shows us prerendered backgrounds might not allow the NWN / TES style modding, there's a lot that can be done nevertheless.

 

As someone who dabbled (like, literally, only dabbled) with mods and use them a lot, though, I have to say I wouldn't mind the tools themselves posing a bit of an entry barrier. It ensures that modding takes not really amazing technical ability per se, but a lot of persistence and determination which weeds out thoughtless or careless creations, and also ensures that modders are more actively plugged into the community; I felt that despite the relatively high barriers BG1/2 developed great communities like the Gibberling Three and you could be sure of a certain type of quality (not to mention standardized technology through WeiDU). With NWN or TES 95% of all mods are rubbish.

 

Not to say we want to introduce artificial barriers, because those barriers aren't perfect. But prerendered backgrounds don't kill modding is my point.