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I think you need to expand on that. What in the game is affected by this? Remember that player created characters don't impact on the world apart from combat (or possibly some skill use), which makes their exclusion or inclusion a non-factor as for what is in the game compared to if it was with only pre-written companions. They just have less dialogue

 

Apart from dialogue, companions could have personal quests, leanings towards certain factions etc. All that is speculation right now. I'd just find it somewhat... strange to have mute puppets and fully scripted companions in one party. I'm not saying it's a design flaw, nor that they should remove one of these options. If anything, I'm hoping that they make characters from the AH a bit more seemingly possessed of their own will than they were i.e. in BG so the contrast isn't so stark.

 

But you said that both approaches don't mix well. what you say here is not a argument of why they don't mix well. This is only about content you will miss if you don't pick companions. Having a party with both will be taking in part of that content (or if you change companions around possibly all, i did in BG2) and partly having your own party.

 

Saying that they don't mix well should mean that the game in some way will be made worse because of it. I could come up with examples, but it is really up to you if you want to back up what you said.

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But you said that both approaches don't mix well. what you say here is not a argument of why they don't mix well.

Saying that they don't mix well should mean that the game in some way will be made worse because of it.

 

I'd say that's very well what I did. While companions may have assumptions and may be outspoken about the game world, created characters presumably will have none, and no life in the world to speak of. Would it irritate me to have a mix of both in the party? Slightly I guess.

 

That a game only gets worse if you miss out on content seems a pretty arbitrary opinion of yours. But going with it, one thing that could make the game worse is if the inclusion of the Adventurers' Hall makes the devs slim down the number of "full" companions - say, 5 companions, and if you want more you can use the AH.

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Who said that the AH would make Obsidian slim down the number of NPCs? Wow did you just pull that out of your Magical Bag of Speculation?

 

 

8 NPCs is fairly modest. AH was just a feature. I can use both quite happily (sorry to break your IMMERSHUN), like I have in BG2 to make a thief NPC that wasn't useless.

 

AH, unlike romances, is a pretty straightforward feature. Romances impact on content resources for *all* romance enabled NPCs. AH is a nice nod to IWD and many of us, I'm sure, will use it heavily.

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There are 8 full fledged companions. That's a lot already. There is nothing taken away by the AH. It's just an "addon". You are not forced to use it, it's not a concern of the story; and the only time you'll miss "content" because of it, is if you actually use it instead of the normal NPC companions. Which in your case, you don't want to use it.

Edited by kenup
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Lack of immersion is not a valid argument against the game, just because you realize that you are in fact person in front of the computer and not elven bard doesn't make the game bad.

 

That's like saying a movie script that builds on unrealistic assumptions and defies believing isn't bad because it's a work of fiction anyways. Not a valid argument in itself.

 

Except you cannot enjoy the movie without suspension of disbelief while many people enjoy games like Mario that make it obvious that it's a game and never even try to pretend to be reality.

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Lack of immersion is not a valid argument against the game, just because you realize that you are in fact person in front of the computer and not elven bard doesn't make the game bad.

 

That's like saying a movie script that builds on unrealistic assumptions and defies believing isn't bad because it's a work of fiction anyways. Not a valid argument in itself.

 

Except you cannot enjoy the movie without suspension of disbelief while many people enjoy games like Mario that make it obvious that it's a game and never even try to pretend to be reality.

 

And that's why the Mario games never had developers filming segments where they talk about the world's lore ;-) (and no by lore I don't mean backstory)

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With eight companions I fully expect the NPCs to be a lot like the NPCs in Torment: very detailed, and several with a unique spin instead of being nothing more than a faithful rendering of their class. They'll be something most people won't want to miss.

 

However, with eight companions to fill five party slots there's not a whole lot of variety in parties you can make. With the Adventurer's Hall, though, you can make anything you want. I don't see how this hurts anyone, especially since the eight companions will likely be designed to give us a very respectable party, with an early rogue if they are the best at lock picking and trap finding.

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP is more asking the question of how the game will treat such mixed groups of companion and AH created: will the game treat the mercs as not being there at all? Will the game treat them as actual mercs or henchmen and not as actual members of the party (in dialogue that is, naturally they count towards party limits and the like)? When an NPC lists off the 'Heroes who saved the babe' will they be counted or be considered nothing more than hired thugs accompanying the heroes? I guess the essential question is what will the game consider AH characters as.

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP is more asking the question of how the game will treat such mixed groups of companion and AH created: will the game treat the mercs as not being there at all? Will the game treat them as actual mercs or henchmen and not as actual members of the party (in dialogue that is, naturally they count towards party limits and the like)? When an NPC lists off the 'Heroes who saved the babe' will they be counted or be considered nothing more than hired thugs accompanying the heroes? I guess the essential question is what will the game consider AH characters as.

In which case the answer has already been posted - play BG in multiplayer mode.

Say no to popamole!

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP is more asking the question of how the game will treat such mixed groups of companion and AH created: will the game treat the mercs as not being there at all? Will the game treat them as actual mercs or henchmen and not as actual members of the party (in dialogue that is, naturally they count towards party limits and the like)? When an NPC lists off the 'Heroes who saved the babe' will they be counted or be considered nothing more than hired thugs accompanying the heroes? I guess the essential question is what will the game consider AH characters as.

In which case the answer has already been posted - play BG in multiplayer mode.

 

No guarantee Obsidian would implement it that way, especially if the companions are more interactive. Maybe Obsidian will want to try a new way.

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP is more asking the question of how the game will treat such mixed groups of companion and AH created: will the game treat the mercs as not being there at all? Will the game treat them as actual mercs or henchmen and not as actual members of the party (in dialogue that is, naturally they count towards party limits and the like)? When an NPC lists off the 'Heroes who saved the babe' will they be counted or be considered nothing more than hired thugs accompanying the heroes? I guess the essential question is what will the game consider AH characters as.

In which case the answer has already been posted - play BG in multiplayer mode.

 

No guarantee Obsidian would implement it that way, especially if the companions are more interactive. Maybe Obsidian will want to try a new way.

Of course we can only speculate, but it does not hurt to look at examples from the past.

Say no to popamole!

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one thing that could make the game worse is if the inclusion of the Adventurers' Hall makes the devs slim down the number of "full" companions - say, 5 companions, and if you want more you can use the AH.

 

The whole point of the adventurer's hall was so that the player could - as an option - create character race/class combinations that the player won't see via the NPCs. Because there was no way they were going to do 66 companions.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP is more asking the question of how the game will treat such mixed groups of companion and AH created: will the game treat the mercs as not being there at all? Will the game treat them as actual mercs or henchmen and not as actual members of the party (in dialogue that is, naturally they count towards party limits and the like)? When an NPC lists off the 'Heroes who saved the babe' will they be counted or be considered nothing more than hired thugs accompanying the heroes? I guess the essential question is what will the game consider AH characters as.

In which case the answer has already been posted - play BG in multiplayer mode.

 

No guarantee Obsidian would implement it that way, especially if the companions are more interactive. Maybe Obsidian will want to try a new way.

 

I suppose they could create "personality" types that align with the 5 companions and then give personality/class/race dialogue to the created party member so they're still somewhat responsive to gameplay events (if lacking in character related aspects). Or they could just create a small generic dialogue tree for created companions.

 

But I imagine that it'd be more like IWD if you have a party of created characters.

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one thing that could make the game worse is if the inclusion of the Adventurers' Hall makes the devs slim down the number of "full" companions - say, 5 companions, and if you want more you can use the AH.

 

The whole point of the adventurer's hall was so that the player could - as an option - create character race/class combinations that the player won't see via the NPCs. Because there was no way they were going to do 66 companions.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP is more asking the question of how the game will treat such mixed groups of companion and AH created: will the game treat the mercs as not being there at all? Will the game treat them as actual mercs or henchmen and not as actual members of the party (in dialogue that is, naturally they count towards party limits and the like)? When an NPC lists off the 'Heroes who saved the babe' will they be counted or be considered nothing more than hired thugs accompanying the heroes? I guess the essential question is what will the game consider AH characters as.

In which case the answer has already been posted - play BG in multiplayer mode.

 

No guarantee Obsidian would implement it that way, especially if the companions are more interactive. Maybe Obsidian will want to try a new way.

 

I suppose they could create "personality" types that align with the 5 companions and then give personality/class/race dialogue to the created party member so they're still somewhat responsive to gameplay events (if lacking in character related aspects). Or they could just create a small generic dialogue tree for created companions.

 

But I imagine that it'd be more like IWD if you have a party of created characters.

They could create more personality types and let you choose from them at character creation, Wiz8 style.

Say no to popamole!

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They could create more personality types and let you choose from them at character creation, Wiz8 style.

 

Man, been so long since I played Wiz8...I really don't remember that.

 

Anyhow I was thinking personality types could be used to have some reactivity from created party members beyond the PC. Would have to be very rudimentary or it'd become too time consuming (and probably why its better to just have them as silent party members).

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But you said that both approaches don't mix well. what you say here is not a argument of why they don't mix well.

Saying that they don't mix well should mean that the game in some way will be made worse because of it.

I'd say that's very well what I did. While companions may have assumptions and may be outspoken about the game world, created characters presumably will have none, and no life in the world to speak of. Would it irritate me to have a mix of both in the party? Slightly I guess.

 

That a game only gets worse if you miss out on content seems a pretty arbitrary opinion of yours. But going with it, one thing that could make the game worse is if the inclusion of the Adventurers' Hall makes the devs slim down the number of "full" companions - say, 5 companions, and if you want more you can use the AH.

 

You don't understand what I am saying..

 

(and I didn't say the game gets worse with missing content, especially since it is a small part and anyone can take in that companion and quest whenever they will)

 

Here you are talking about how your experience would differ if you did or did not take on these self-made guys. that is not how it change or mix up the game. that is a choice by you on what you want in your game. Please note that even player created characters could have dialogue and special event if it is designed that way.

 

What I am talking about and what would affect the game is things like this:

- Player created characters are way better in combat/magic, breaking the balance of the game and either making it easier or more difficult for some.

- Companions are crucial to the plot, meaning that someone that don't take them will miss important plot points.

- Companion(s) have some special attacks against certain enemies that non other got.

- There are crucial game systems in place that needs the companions. (i.e. Soul will be drained without Master Bro in your party)

 

See, if the way the game is played will change with what party you make then it mixes it up. Especially if it breaks the balance. Optional quest is just a piece of content that whoever can use or not.

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Gotta say, the AH was a draw for me to want to kick up my backer $$. Because I hated Qara for example in NWN2. So I played the whole game without a mage just so I wouldn't have to deal with her. (and it still occasionally made me deal with her. Grr.) I want Obsidian to create interesting, memorable characters. And if they go forth and do that with gusto then some of those interesting, memorable characters I will personally detest. And that's OK. I like that the world is full of people who I like / dislike, respect / dismiss, etc. Maybe its me, or maybe its my character concept that clashes. But with the AH in play I can safely toss that loser on the curb where they belong and not gimp my mechanical effectiveness.

 

I would of course _prefer_ to have a party full of the three dimensional written companions, but I love the option to bail on one or more as needed. If the puppets fade into the background somewhat and seem like "silent partners" then I think I can handle that OK with my own immersion. Some people are like that in real life too. But you know, YMMV.

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The AH will also be helpful when some of your party members don't get back up after a battle.

Or when you make sure they don't get up! :devil:

 

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be using AH companions a lot, when the normal ones annoy me.

Edited by kenup
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Here you are talking about how your experience would differ if you did or did not take on these self-made guys. that is not how it change or mix up the game. that is a choice by you on what you want in your game. Please note that even player created characters could have dialogue and special event if it is designed that way.

 

Yes, that's something to hope for. As long as they have any reactivity at all it should make them feel on par with companions.

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Here you are talking about how your experience would differ if you did or did not take on these self-made guys. that is not how it change or mix up the game. that is a choice by you on what you want in your game. Please note that even player created characters could have dialogue and special event if it is designed that way.

 

Yes, that's something to hope for. As long as they have any reactivity at all it should make them feel on par with companions.

 

Probably to much for this project though.

 

apart from NPC dialogue about things like their race, profession or equipment. Like "I would only trust giving that information to a dwarf, like your friend Gurka there".

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