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Please no more "go here" quest markers!


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Sometimes i find a well placed quest marker would not only have solved my problems, it would also have helped immersion. In various RPGs I often found myself searching for a guy or his house in a city where everyone could have told me the exact location, yet not a single character had the appropriate dialogue option. Clearly adding dialogue options for every location/quest to random characters would be a huge amount of work, and wouldn't really add much to the game (compared to the work needed), so i'd say for quest where the point is not finding the place (such as most city quests) a quest marker is ok , with a toggle option for harcore gamers.

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Agree so much with thread starter. Don't even make quest markers toggable, when you have the option it's easier to fall for it. Much more enjoyable without it.

This, I know I may succumb to laziness and toggle the quest marker. So rather not have them

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If the quest is something like finding a young girl who was snatched away in the night by trolls then NO a quest marker shouldn't be made available to anyone on any difficulty level. If however the quest is go talk with Lorekeeper Alith who is well known and lives in 1 of 200 houses in a big city, then I think a quest marker is very helpful and appropriate. Basically if the location of the quest objective is common knowledge then I would appreciate map markers, otherwise exploration is required, as it should be!

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I don't mind questGPS because most companies have gotten lazy with their quest compilation and do not explain or give you enough information about where you need to go and what you're looking for.

 

Eg. Bob Buzzard has stolen my mechanical rabbit! Get it back!! NOW!!!

 

Ok, where and who is Mr Buzzard? Why can't I now talk to you to ask more information on who this mysterious feller is?

 

Though if the journals at least have a decent referencing system to the area where the quest is then atleast I can find the right town and go from there.

Edited by Juneau

Juneau & Alphecca Daley currently tearing up Tyria.

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There is that line in design, which, when crossed, instead of making game foolproof makes developers end up with game for fools. And when that happens I can't add anything valuable to discussion because I just want to swear all the time. So I'll just say I'm against quest markers mechanics.

Edited by Shadenuat
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Sometimes waypoints are needed, but I'll agree for the most part they just take away from the experience. What I would like to see is the ability for the player to post waypoints or markers.

 

Sometimes while looking around I find something interesting that I don't seem to have a use for now but I think I might in the future, it'll be nice to be able to tag it. That being said I don't really want the game itself to tag EVERYTHING I'll need, makes me lazy.

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Assuming (well I am, maybe its been established) this game will not be isometric and we can change the camera angle and assuming that the typical "Z" key to highlight interactive objects is implemented I don't see a reason for quest markers in the game (if its a top down sort of 3rd person interface).

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I've been playing dishonored without quest markers...it makes the game way better IMHO.

In fact, turning off the UI completely has given the game...well a tense feeling that didn't exist before. I feel more connected to the world, and though it may be frustrating sometimes to travel around looking for a specific person, when you do find them it's so much more rewarding.

 

I'm not against including quest markers in PE, just please make them optional, and give us enough information to complete quests without them in the journal.

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Personally getting "lost" when trying to achieve something is not attractive to me, because the assumption is that if you're lost you'll figure it out, but more likely people end up alt tabbing out of the game to find a guide and stop wasting time not doing what they want to be doing. Spending hours in game stuck or alt tabbing out of a game world to me is far more damaging than a way point indicator which saves me having to remember every piece of dialogue or clue my character supposedly knows but I don't.

 

I can choose to get lost and explore randomly whenever I want, if I choose to seek out the objective of a quest I'm quite happy having a marker for that objective on the map or an arrow on the mini map which points the direction I need to go. I'm an adult with free will, I can at any time I choose, move off the indicated path and do whatever I want should I be distracted, the indicator doesn't need to be forcibly removed from my screen to enable that.

 

In an rpg you play a character, and my character is not as dumb as me, without way points I'm not playing my character, I'm dealing with my flaws and projecting them onto my character, which is not what I want. You don't play you, you play someone else, hence "role playing". Have it as an option for those that want to be themselves but lets not seesaw between forcing it on to forcing it off, it proves we learn nothing about choice.

Edited by FrostPaw
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I don't mind questGPS because most companies have gotten lazy with their quest compilation and do not explain or give you enough information about where you need to go and what you're looking for.

 

Eg. Bob Buzzard has stolen my mechanical rabbit! Get it back!! NOW!!!

 

Ok, where and who is Mr Buzzard? Why can't I now talk to you to ask more information on who this mysterious feller is?

 

Though if the journals at least have a decent referencing system to the area where the quest is then atleast I can find the right town and go from there.

Except I would argue that the reason so many devs have gotten lazy with quest descriptions is exactly because they can just slap a GPS marker down where you need to go and be done with it. In Morrowind quests would generally give you directions to the place you had to go, because there were no map markers. In Oblivion and Skyrim they never gave any, because you were just supposed to follow the marker on your compass. Getting rid of the marker (or having the option to turn it off) would theoretically force devs to put more effort into in-game descriptions.

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The only level of quest marker acceptable to me in a game like this is an NPC saying "You'll help us? Great! My village is here. Let me mark your map." And that's it. Of course, that's not actually a quest marker; that's a map unlock.

 

The onus is on the game creators first and foremost to write quest descriptions that don't cater to below the lowest common denominator (i.e. people who can't read).

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No wonder that dude had his family heirloom stolen from him and needs me to retrieve it. He's walking around with a big yellow arrow above his head for all the muggers to see.

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Noone here played Baldur's Gate or Baldur's Gate 2?

 

All maps had little icons for important stuff (stores, specific places ("Ruins")). Getting lost or not finding anything is your own damn issue, not the game. So, no questmarkers.

 

If you get a goal to "find X at the house in the woods", you should go to the woods and FIND that house, not just look at the map and know exactly where the house is in the woods, and instantly go there. The way it's meant to be...

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

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Honestly, I wouldn't want quest markers. Just map markers (general non-quest specific) and handy journal entries. Wonderful, wonderful journal entries. I want to have enough resources so I'm not blindly shooting in the dark, but I don't want to be deprived of exploration.

If I'm really having problems, online faqs are always available to hold my hand.

Edited by PieSnatcher
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Honestly, I wouldn't want quest markers. Just map markers (general non-quest specific) and handy journal entries. Wonderful, wonderful journal entries. I want to have enough resources so I'm not blindly shooting in the dark, but I don't want to be deprived of exploration.

If I'm really having problems, online faqs are always available to hold my hand.

 

I just don't understand this thinking, do you not have free will? Once there is a quest marker are you obligated to go directly to do it? Couldn't you just not? You don't need hand holding but you do need hand shoving to do what you enjoy?

 

If exploration is what you enjoy, quest markers or no, you will explore. If you need an excuse to explore, you don't enjoy it as much as you say. I'm not singling you out here, I've seen this argument many times over many games and every time I ask this question.

 

I'm happy to have a toggle on or off by the way. :biggrin:

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It really depends on the quests. Quest markers are necessary if it's going to be really difficult to navigate to things. If the maps and layouts are simple and distinct enough to find things and quest instructions are clear enough, then they aren't needed. It's less of an issue with a basically 2D map than a full 3D map.

 

Playing a game like Skyrim with no form of quest markers at all would be an absolute pain in the butt. Half the time I couldn't find the path to get to things that I could see on the mountains, let alone if my only guide had been "it's a book in a yeti cave on the south side of that big mountain over there."

 

While I have much nostalgia for the good ol' days, I hardly want to go back to having to keep my own written notes for every quest and mapping things out on graph paper. We have a few decades worth of improvements in in-game tools to draw from. I enjoy exploring in games and finding new things. I hate wandering aimlessly in circles trying to find a quest objective with a vague description and no map markers.

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As long as some direction is provided, no quest marks are needed (but should exist as an option or official addon)... I started playing in games with no clue at all and very vague information... but understand things have changed and adult players have less time to play.

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I just don't understand this thinking, do you not have free will? Once there is a quest marker are you obligated to go directly to do it? Couldn't you just not? You don't need hand holding but you do need hand shoving to do what you enjoy?

 

Of course we have free will- but that's not the point ;) . Is it really so hard to understand? I can easily see why people would want quest markers- I want 'em too if directions are a little vague. In fact, most times I'd probably appreciate them, and even if there was a situation that would have been more fun without them, I probably wouldn't complain about it. I just remember that, for the most part, the BG series worked great and don't think I was ever lost- the journal pointed me in the right direction and that was enough. I enjoyed a little searching from time to time. Just not too much.

And I dunno about "optional" markers- "make it an option" seems to be the default fall-back decision (everyone's happy! :) ). If the quests/game world are designed with them in mind, then just put them in. There are just some situations where it wouldn't be hard to find your way and better experienced by letting you reach your objective with a bit of poking around.

 

It really depends on the quests. Quest markers are necessary if it's going to be really difficult to navigate to things. If the maps and layouts are simple and distinct enough to find things and quest instructions are clear enough, then they aren't needed. It's less of an issue with a basically 2D map than a full 3D map.

...

While I have much nostalgia for the good ol' days, I hardly want to go back to having to keep my own written notes for every quest and mapping things out on graph paper. We have a few decades worth of improvements in in-game tools to draw from. I enjoy exploring in games and finding new things. I hate wandering aimlessly in circles trying to find a quest objective with a vague description and no map markers.

 

Agreed. I think the game will (hopefully) be designed so that we're not simply lost. That's no fun. And I don't think I've ever kept written/typed notes for any game. Nor have I used custom map markers- I can be lazy and I like that to be taken care of for me. I'd like the journal to be clear/easy to navigate- I don't even really care whether or not it's written "in character"- I just want to keep track of everything that's going on. And by all means, let's use the decade or so of improvements. I'm not especially attached to "old school". Just whatever works.

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You know, if the NPC says let me mark it on your map, let it appear on the map. If you're given explicit directions, mark it on the map. In an isometric game that's not a sand box like oblivion etc, there really shouldn't need to be the compass with points of interest marked out.

 

Yeah, give me a descriptive Journal entry (preferably in a Journal where quests are easy to sort and navigate) and a mark on our map that gives the general location where the next step in the quest should occur and I am happy.

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Has anybody played WAR? Warhammer Online the mmo. Please don't tell me all it's flaws, my point is they had "quest area" zones of red tint on the map. It essentially said, go over to this general area and you'll find what you are looking for, but not necessarily in the whole of that red tinted area. So you still had to search around and figure it out. You just knew it was in that area and nowhere else in the world.

 

I actually think that was a triumph of compromise, showing you where to go but leaving you to find out exactly where. The size of the quest area tint was random so sometimes it was quite small but sometimes it was massive and would take you a few minutes to search within it.

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What if the only way to have quest markers is if you set them yourself? You still have to figure out where you're going based on whatever information you're given (or that you can find), but once you know (or at least think you know) where you're headed, you can mark it on a map. That way, you're not having your hand held throughout the whole game, but you can still have that reminder of where you need to go.

Of course, depending on how much information is available, you might only have a general idea of where you're supposed to go. You'd still have to do some searching in some quests.

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