Would you like for an NPC to be able to betray your PC?

[Thangorodrim]

I think if it is not something sudden ... you hear grumblings from the NPC well in advance so you can choose to ignore them and face the consequences, make repairs in the relationship, or cut the dead beat loose ... whichever suits your playing style ... I would have no problem if there are a couple of scripted betrayals that are used to advance story elements also

[Tsuga C]

The NPC should have the option of leaving or betraying the PC/party as they see fit, but I certainly don't want it happening at the drop of a hat. Furthermore, a wise PC or other member of the party should probably be able to pick up a hint or two that the NPC in question is becoming highly dissatisfied with the current status quo. Having the heavy-duty fighter go AWOL right before entering that 15-level dungeon without a reasonable hint that he was getting ready to leave would be unduly harsh.

[Durinax]

I liked when Torian Kel (Arcanum) betrayed because the main bad guy offered a solution to his predicament.

 

but yeah you need some hints and tips that the NPC don't like whats happening or a possible betrayal.

 

Where if you go after a bunch of thieves or something and they try to convince people in your group to defect, etc.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

As long as you can pre empt him out of mistrust, nothing annoys me more than seeing a trap, ambush or betrayal coming and not being able to avoid it. I feel like my intelligence is being insulted.

[Eraydon]

One thing that happened from time to time in PnP games I've played is one player or a NPC hireling might decide to betray the group - sell them out for gold, steal items while everyone was asleep and run off.

 

In cRPG when PC influence with the NPC gets below a certain level, usually the character just leaves the party. There's also morale failure in battle where the character runs off. Betrayals might happen due to hard coded script - doesn't matter what the PC did, once that story point is hit, betrayal happens.

 

I haven't really played a cRPG where NPCs who become disatisfied who could leave during a rest period with part of your belongings. Possibly this is scripting / resource intensive, but seems like it could create a mini-quest (to retrieve your stuff) that isn't static within the context of the games story.

 

So the question is, if resources weren't an issue, would this kind of behavior be interesting for NPCs to possibly have? Or would it just be too frustrating?

 

I love this. SO enhances the game. I added a mod to IWD2 to add better characters for your group and one of them didn't like what I did with a quest and took the potion I had to deliver or whatever and threw it on the ground and told me we would not be doing the quest. Absolutely AWESOME. As a result, I found IWD2 x10000 cooler, I started to take my decisions more thoughtfully, etc... Definitely a MUST. Anyone who says otherwise isn't thinking outside the box. So much opens up when your NPCs actually start acting according to their personality.

[-Zin-]

I voted no because this topic is absurd.

 

Yes, betrayal is cool, but now that it's discussed, I don't want it in the game because the more it's discussed the more we'll prepare for it It's kind of a weird question to begin with. If yes, then you know that it's coming, so what's the point in asking? And if not, then you'll be disappointed. You're setting yourself up to be screwed by this question.

 

Betreyal is a cool suprise-element to use in a story if it is merited and is used correctly. However, discussing it without having played the game is just plain weird unless you're the developer. Haven't we seen enough from mandatory betrayals in games like Uncharted, Resident Evil and so forth? Betrayal is only cool if you don't see it coming, OR, if it's Eric Cartman betrayal where you know he's going to backstab you, but you let him come along anyway to move the story along

 

But to ask people right now if we want to see betrayal in this very game? Well, no. Not if I know it's coming. Then it's rendered pointless and I want to see something else now.

[Juneau]

I have concerns with the ability for your NPC companions to bugger off and they are;

 

1) In most games where this system has been introduced it's almost impossible to build a group composition of certain class/types because of the inherent differences those characters portray. So even if you loved char a&b and did everything they wanted 1 is good and 1 is evil so 1 will leave you because you're either good or bad.

 

or 1 will leave you because he/she hates another member of your party and so on.

 

 

and

 

2) You spend a small fortune on them giving them amazing gear and then part 1) rears it's head and you're left with nothing despite doing a lot.

[Amentep]

Why would you insist on keeping a party of incompatible characters forcing one to run off? What a bad party-leader you are.

 

I kid, I kid.

 

But it seems to me enforcing some logic with your NPCs would be a good thing (and more particular would need a system that doesn't devolve party reputation into "donate to a church / whack a villager to keep neutral alignment and most everyone happy") Particularly given that PE isn't going to have an alignment system so there can be a lot more freedom of character opinion.

[Tamerlane]

I always thought that Zevran should betray the party in DAO. Like, not "if his approval is low at the end of the game he rejoins the Crows" kind of betrayal. More like, "first time you go to camp he tries to stab you in your sleep" kind of betrayal. Maybe he kills your dog or something, since that's simultaneously not game-ruining (the dog was terrible) but still really sucks (the dog was cool).

 

Because you brought your own ****ing assassin into the party, you idiot.

[Cryticus]

I am not sure everything that makes a party member more independent ( s/he have his own story that is in some way part of your story rather than being that random guy who just feels like helping total stranger, and go with him on year long journey) but with this thing is problem, if this is scripted than what happens is Bishop from , NwN2

first playign: what?what? bishop why what will I do Bishop? ( imersiv)

second : I should seen that comming this is so awesome ( not imersive but impresive)

third playing : and now I will take all your stuff and throw few cursed items in there, ( not imersiv, not impresive)

Anyway nothing will beat betreyer from Batten Kaitos

[K1113R]

Definitely a great idea. It adds realism to the characters. However, I think it shouldn't happen just due to low influence - more like at NEGATIVE influence.

[JayDGee]

I like how Ajantis will turn and attack you in baldurs gate if you act too evil.

 

I had that coming and I deserved it. to be fair he had warned me.

 

True he never stood a chance but I had to try and recruit someone else

[Remmirath]

I'm all for betrayal. Keeps you on your toes.

 

It would be cool if you had some chance of seeing it coming, though, at least if your character had particularly high wisdom or sense motive or similar or you were paying particularly close attention. Then you could try to do something about it (even if "doing something about it" and "killing the soon-to-be-betrayer" were one and the same).

[temporalTemptation]

I'd like it, on two conditions.

 

1) It was based upon my interaction with them. It's not pre-scripted and it's not "oh, your alignment just dropped into Chaotic Evil, I will suddenly try and kill you now". It might be reasonable that the paladin would try to strike me down if I got too wicked, but other things should be factored into account, such as how amiable I appear to them, how charismatic I am, the friendship (or rivalry) I've built up with them, whether I've listened to their concerns or just shot them down whenever they've raised objections.

 

2) I'm given a chance to undo the damage. If they lure me into an ambush, I want to be able to fight (or flee, or even talk) my way out of it, not just sit idly by as the cutscene plays. If they run off with my +5 Sword of Slashing and Stabbing and Shooting Divine Fire out yer Bum still in their hand, I want an opportunity to hunt them down and to teach them what happens to people who try to make off with my stuff.

[JayDGee]

consensus seems to be we have no problem with betrayal as long as we can have vengeance.

 

good thing forums aren't used as character testimony's in spousal murders

[Silentsigil]

I think a loose system would be best, maybe a series of possible events based on the class of the companion. If [thief] then, after x amounts of offending activity there would be a warning message (not necessarily a conversation with an option to talk them out of it, I think this is overdone and is too kind to players), something noting that this guy has been acting kind of suspicious, in one way or another.

 

Clues in the message could give you an idea of what's coming (for slight offenses and butt-hurtness you could get something like "Bob's been avoiding the others lately, and things have gone missing"--this could lead to items and gold disappearing. If you've acted so far off from their worldview that killing you seems best, then the message could say something like "You've been noticing that Bob has had a peculiar look in his eye in recent days. He's been sharpening his [weapon of choice] while watching you quite a bit lately."). After a few more rests, giving you a chance to reconsider how you're acting, and changing the outcome through those actions rather than a cheesy conversation, the event trigger could go off. X gold missing, stolen books or something for mild upsets, or maybe an event after you rest one morning where they try to kill you in your sleep (you get damaged by x amount and they flee).

 

The most important thing to me would be being able to find them after the betrayal. If they stole items or gold, they'd better have it on them, or I'm taking something else. Their ears, maybe. In this case, being able to intimidate them back into the party [With no more lip, gol-darnit] would be hilarious. If they tried to kill me, though, I think the mutual disfavor would have to lead the conversation inevitably to their horrible, disfiguring demise.