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Flagellants for.. atmosphere? Or Monks for repetition?


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The idea is to change the name from Monk to Flagellant, seeing as that's what we are getting from Obsidian in Forton.

 

Should the Monk in P:E be called "Flagellant" instead?

Flagellant: http://en.wikipedia....ern_flagellants

Flagellants are practioners of an extreme form of mortification of their own flesh by whipping it with various instruments.

Monk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monk

A monk, is a person who practices religious asceticism, living either alone or with any number of other monks. A monk may be a person who decided to dedicate his life to serve the other living beings or to be an ascetic who voluntarily chooses to leave mainstream society and live his life in prayer and contemplation. The concept is ancient and can be seen in many religions and in philosophy.

 

It is entirely new, fresh, and I personally like the thought of it. Obsidian is doing something new with the Monk class, it's not a kung-fu gung-ho ninja fist fighter. It seems more towards a masochistic flagellant (a form of a Monk I believe), with curiosity in mortification as well as drug use.

 

Should the Flagellant's dominate the world of P:E in terms of population and culture? I wouldn't mind seeing some more Eastern Monks, but should they be scarce in this world?

 

Why should the Class Title be Monk?

This opens up the possibilities for Obsidian to build the Monk, most likely giving us more choices (To be able to make a Eastern Fighter Monk, or a Healer Monk, or the Flagellant Monk). Unless Forton is what defines what the Monk class is going to be (In that case it should be Flagellant). However, a Priest is also a Monk, and a Paladin too (According to this wikipedia it is). A Necromancer could be a Monk even, if he does what he does for religious purpose, enlightenment etc.etc.

 

Why should the Class Title be Flagellant?

Really only for the "It's new! Sounds fresh!" stuff, it would limit you within it's definition though. What we could get instead, could be a deep rooted story where the Flagellant has a bigger part in the general Culture of the world. To develop a better atmosphere for the Era. Obsidian could focus their direction on making the Flagellant class, instead of having to worry about making "Eastern Monks" for us who want it.

Edited by Osvir
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Just have to nitpick, a Paladin is not a monk, though the typical RPG Paladin don't gather wealth, Paladins in real history, if we base the modern use from the origin of Rolands companions, are more like noble warriors like the knights of the round table, good hearted yes, but not in any way poor by choice, neither is there a connection to the use of the title Paladin and refraining from having sex, such as monks in any religion that comes to my mind, does.

 

To the actual topic: Having monks being the D&D-type martial artist, kung-fu type monk, is getting a little old. I am hoping for a more european type of monk as base, making the playstyle completely different.

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I get the impression that Forton is not the embodiement of monks in the PE universe, but rather a monk who happens to have certain personality quirks. Like how Minsc was not the embodiement of the entire Ranger class.

 

I am strongly in favour of the class being called "Monk". I prefer that they follow in the D&D tradition of being unarmed and unarmoured specialists. I don't think things need to be changed just for the sake of being new.

 

I see the "Eastern" and "Asian" point brought up a lot and I don't really get it. Obsidian is creating a new setting for PE and the origin of Monk traditions can come from wherever they want, it doesn't have to be "the East". However I would prefer to see their skills and abilities look something like the D&D Monk.

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Flagellants for atmosphere, monks for repetition and nuns for sexy time :brows:

Edited by Orogun01
I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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Too obscure. How about Dervishes? ;)

Unless Obsidian has the manpower to fend off a Jihad from the extremist I would recommend they stay way from Muslim imagery.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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In the end I'm pretty sure Obsidian will come up with their own title, but yeah, I do think Flagellants would make a for very cool variation on the typical, silly, Monk class. It would even be pretty simple to come up with a class mechanic based on it: do damage to yourself to gain power.

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I want kung-fu. I didn't donate to a BG2 inspired game to not get my kung-fu man. If Obsidian were to add a flagellant type of priest, though, that would be neat.

 

Yeah that's kind of what I felt about it too, Flagellant altogether feels closer to "European Priest" or an "Anglo-Saxon Monk". I associate it more towards a "Cleric" (in isometric RPG terms)

 

Just have to nitpick, a Paladin is not a monk

 

To counter-nitpick, per definition, a Paladin could be a Monk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism

Asceticism describes a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from various worldly pleasures, often with the aim of pursuing religious and spiritual goals. Many religious traditions (e.g. Buddhism, Jainism, the Christian desert fathers) include practices that involve restraint with respect to actions of body, speech, and mind. The founders and earliest practitioners of these religions lived extremely austere lifestyles, refraining from sensual pleasures and the accumulation of material wealth. They practiced asceticism not as a rejection of the enjoyment of life, or because the practices themselves are virtuous, but as an aid in the pursuit of salvation or liberation.
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This man is clearly a monk (in the traditional D&D sense). He is a confirmed companion. I bet he knows Kung Fu.

 

PE-Forton-700x956.jpg

 

I certainly appreciate your idea of adding flagellants to PE, but I think it's a bit late for flagellant to replace monk in the class list. What abilities would you give the flagellant subtype of monk? Given we know that you will witness a horrible event at the start of the game it would make sense for a portion of the population to go a bit crazy. A Wandering group of flagellants would make for a nice early-level encounter.

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This man is clearly a monk (in the traditional D&D sense). He is a confirmed companion. I bet he knows Kung Fu.

[Forton Picture]

 

I certainly appreciate your idea of adding flagellants to PE, but I think it's a bit late for flagellant to replace monk in the class list. What abilities would you give the flagellant subtype of monk? Given we know that you will witness a horrible event at the start of the game it would make sense for a portion of the population to go a bit crazy. A Wandering group of flagellants would make for a nice early-level encounter.

 

Forton has also been confirmed to be a Monk who is a Flagellant.

 

The concept of a Monk class is broad and big, giving us as players more options to how we see it. But if Forton "defines" the Class (e.g., he's part of a certain Order or "Religion" that is prominent and dominant in the world of P:E) then the Class name could be "Flagellant" instead of "Monk". Because if Forton defines the class, then the title should be specific and not "broad". If I only can be different variations of the Flagellant that Obsidian has in mind, wouldn't "Monk" elude me in the game?

 

Lore-wise, I think, Obsidian could focus on creating a more revealing/definable and, for us, more logical and sensible "atmosphere" for the game just by having the class title be named accordingly to the in-game mechanics.

 

After all, who says that you can't have an "Eastern"/"Asian Monk"-inspired Flagellant Monk? ;)

Edited by Osvir
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Honestly I dislike the idea of naming the class flagellants. Mainly because calling the class that already decides something about my characters personality. Now as a subclass sure. As a trait required by being a monk of a certain order/deity I'm all for it. But for it to be universal that all monks are flagellants seems unseemly to me. At best you get a different name for an iconic class and at worst you get what seems like a blatant attempt at shock value. I'm all for breaking the mold and trying new things but this really doesn't do much of anything interesting or important while at the same time narrowing the possibilities of what a 'monk' is. Granted this is just my opinion which is no more right or wrong than the OP, it's just how I feel.

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K is for Kid, a guy or gal just like you. Don't be in such a hurry to grow up, since there's nothin' a kid can't do.

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Honestly I dislike the idea of naming the class flagellants. Mainly because calling the class that already decides something about my characters personality. Now as a subclass sure. As a trait required by being a monk of a certain order/deity I'm all for it. But for it to be universal that all monks are flagellants seems unseemly to me. At best you get a different name for an iconic class and at worst you get what seems like a blatant attempt at shock value. I'm all for breaking the mold and trying new things but this really doesn't do much of anything interesting or important while at the same time narrowing the possibilities of what a 'monk' is. Granted this is just my opinion which is no more right or wrong than the OP, it's just how I feel.

 

Its really no biggie to be honest. I'd prefer Forton to be a strand of Monk, a 1 out of 3 sub-classes of the Monk class. But I can also see Flagellant being the main class with 3 sub-classes, that's all. One being, conceptual idea, a Flagellant Wizard perhaps, being able to "become" an elemental by summoning spells onto his/her own flesh (literally). Or the Grimoire could be the Wizard Flagellant's body :o A Flagellant Martial Artist who uses "utility" (drugs, tools) like Forton (the Asian take on it). The third one a Doctor type Flagellant maybe? :p

 

A little bit off-topic, concept idea:

I'm feeling a Flagellant should be good with chemistry, thus being an excellent Alchemist. I can see some early level "experimentation" of potions actually benefiting (for a short while) the Flagellant, even if it is a "Potion of Acid Death" (potions you craft are always "unidentified" until you've drank them?).

Edited by Osvir
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In many ways Obsidian described a drug fuelled flagellant, but what they gave us was quite obviously a kung-fu monk.

 

I get mixed signals from Obsidian over this class, they really need to clarify their intentions and give us more detailed lore.

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To counter-nitpick, per definition, a Paladin could be a Monk.

 

I always thought of a Paladin as a rules lawyer that was a stickler for following some specific code of conduct particular to his knightly order. Sort of an embodiment of said code.

 

Monks struck me more as the reflecting type that observe and learn through observing and thinking (or meditation) and learn to master their own minds and bodies through exercise and discipline. Being good at martial arts is just a bonus from such mastery.

 

Edit: Being a Warhammer fan, a flagellant will always remind me of raving lunatics running around with bloodied naked torsos, whipping themselves while screaming "Repent!" and "We are all doomed!"

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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The idea is to change the name from Monk to Flagellant, seeing as that's what we are getting from Obsidian in Forton.

 

Should the Monk in P:E be called "Flagellant" instead?

Flagellant: http://en.wikipedia....ern_flagellants

Flagellants are practioners of an extreme form of mortification of their own flesh by whipping it with various instruments.

I belive you used wrong link for what you had in mind.

http://www.games-wor...questid=1675683 (is it OK with forum rules to use such links?)

When war threatens, bands of crazed Flagellants instinctively gravitate towards battlefields, appearing unannounced and charging headlong towards the enemy without fear or hesitation. Flagellants fight in a crazed frenzy, driven insane by the horrors the world has inficted upon them and desperate for their pain to end.
Edited by Comedian
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Is nomine vacans liberarit vobis ex servitut.

Is nomine vacans redit vobis ars magica.

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