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Unofficial P.E. Relationship/Romance Thread pt.2

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This is clearly a BSN thread with BSN moderating standards.

 

I might have to defect to.... The Codex.

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sonsofgygax.JPG

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Necromantic romance is the only solution.

 

How do we go about this?

 

I'm hoping you have this all planned out already, right?

 

 

 

Right?

 

See post #256

 

Now we just need to hope they release the modding tools to make this possible.

 

There's always Kickstart too. I mean, who wouldn't throw money at a project like that?

 

This is clearly a BSN thread with BSN moderating standards.

 

I might have to defect to.... The Codex.

 

It's no romance, but I can always give you a hug if you so desire? All you need to do is cover the traveling expenses.

Edited by HereticSaint

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This is clearly a BSN thread with BSN moderating standards.

 

I might have to defect to.... The Codex.

 

You do know that the Obsidian mods post at the Codex, right? :p


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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This is clearly a BSN thread with BSN moderating standards.

 

I might have to defect to.... The Codex.

come to the dark side

we have brofists

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[intelligence] I'm fighting the Good Fight with my posts.

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This is clearly a BSN thread with BSN moderating standards.

 

I might have to defect to.... The Codex.

Don't you already have an account over there?


Say no to popamole!

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This is clearly a BSN thread with BSN moderating standards.

 

I might have to defect to.... The Codex.

No there is far to little disturbing fan-art in this thread to pass as BSN romance thread.

To really reach that level folks around here need to stop just dreaming about a zombie harem and need to start drawing, or at least photo-shopping it.

 

The bickering here is nice though and I really hope that the moderators will not ruin it by being over-eager.

Edited by Andwit25

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This is clearly a BSN thread with BSN moderating standards.

 

I might have to defect to.... The Codex.

Don't you already have an account over there?

 

Yeah but (a) I haven't posted there for about four years and (b) I've forgotten my password and it was on an ancient email address that has been zapped.


sonsofgygax.JPG

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Why is it so bad opposing "modernizations", like quest compass and arrows above NPCs head "I HAVE A QUEST!" or opposing magic map markers like in Skyrim? Or what's so bad opposing small party sizes, opposing cooldowns like in MMOs. When they revealed how exactly the cooldown will work, the complaints quieted down because it wasn't idiotc MMO cooldown.

 

If you don't like those things in games, there's nothing wrong in opposing it. I'm not sure where you see me saying it was wrong for anyone to oppose it.

 

The post you were quoting was showing a rough division of "two opposing forces", which itself was a very over-simplistic look at the dynamics of a customer, or worse fan, base.

 

How do they satisfy the extremes of their "base?" By not catering to either side overtly, doing what they were going to do anyway, and depend on the end product being good enough, and enough of what enough of their base will enjoy, that not directly engaging with the extreme sides won't matter.

 

Unfortunately, like a politician.

 

We from the RPGCodex have seen basicly entire genre been abducted, beaten, tortured, shot back to the head, dissected, pissed and shat on and then finally cremated in the last decade mostly because of so-called "modernizations" and appealing for lowest common denominator - we now have a chance of getting a grand rpg from one of the best RPG developers of all time without publishers meddling.

 

As much as I might dislike certain aspects of more "modern" games (I want turn-based (not real time with pause), six party member parties that the player creates, and I want graphics to be like the year 2000 never happened (cursed NWN and other games moving into "3D")) I accept that mediums change over time. Tastes and trends change. Game design doesn't happen in a vacuum... companies are trying to cater to their audience. Do they misread trends and tastes, see the wrong things in market research and polls? Often, sure, but they try - and when things don't sell, they change their tactics.

 

The sad truth is that FPS and Madden will always outsell cRPGs. Always. And that, for about a decade, MMORPGs were the best selling PC games. You don't have to like this (I don't) but you kind of have to adjust. You can sit on your mountaintop and remain pure, crusty and upset at the world...

 

or you can try and enjoy the best of what exists out there, encouraging the games closer to what you want. I'm sure THIS is what you all believe your are doing, and are trying to do. Or most of you. Benefit of the doubt?

 

We are (sometimes) abrasive because we are passionate about our precious genre and we dont want the game compromised because small subset wants it to be like those other modern rpgs with melodramatic relationship dramas - and what I read from the MCA's interview, the game wont be like that, none of the Obsidian's games have been melodramatic but we still dont want to see the forums filled with people who demands that kind of romances and romances for every possiblity.

 

But a small subset is exactly who your are. What's the Codex's membership levels? Hundreds? Maybe a few thousand? Games have to sell (even for indie titles) tens to hundreds of thousands, if not millions. A few hundred die-hards who wish it was still 1980 (and, again, I'm here - I want that, too, for video game design philosophy) can't be a target audience.

 

Be glad that Obsidian is full of people who at least want to bring back a bunch of lost design mechanics from the early 2000's.

 

That being said I do trust Obsidian to make the best game they can and make it how they want it, and according to MCA's interview it'll be more like PS:T than BG1 and BG2 from the story point-of-view.

 

Not just MCA, but their KS pitch. From BG - exploration and companions. From IWD - tactical combat and dungeon delving. From PS:T - themes and story.

 

Just, you know, I don't think for most who LOVE PS:T a removal of Vancian magic, the addition of cooldowns, or even adding more overt romance to the companions, would have significantly "lessened" their love for the game.

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We'll compare who results to ad hominem first, the most and who actually posts constructive, intelligent, well thought out, legitimate posts that don't reek of self importance. I already know who's going to sound more reasonable and mature out of that pile.

You of all people accusing others of passive aggressive behaviour and ad hominem attacks is frankly hilarious.

 

Wow... just, all but that last one? It looks to me like maybe you don't understand what certain terms mean. You really mischaracterized A LOT.

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Thread pruned a bit. Lets see if we can tone down the personal aggravations before I need to get my hands "dirty" and start singling out individuals for limits on posting capabilities?

 

There should be post limit per topic. People like qloher, Merin, HereticSaint ( whatever is that supposed to mean) are repeating same **** over and over again so it looks as if both sides have arguments.

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I already know who's going to sound more reasonable and mature out of that pile.

my god, you people just don't give up, do you? why do you keep pushing this agenda of yours is beyond me. aren't there games with romances already? why can't you replay those if you like them so much? why try and shove romances into every new game?

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Let's Play The Temple of Elemental Evil (Complete)
Let's Play Neverwinter Nights and Hordes of the Underdark

Let's Play Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn

I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.

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Thread pruned a bit. Lets see if we can tone down the personal aggravations before I need to get my hands "dirty" and start singling out individuals for limits on posting capabilities?

 

There should be post limit per topic. People like qloher, Merin, HereticSaint ( whatever is that supposed to mean) are repeating same **** over and over again so it looks as if both sides have arguments.

 

"Only the people I disagree with have repeated their argument, no on else has"

 

Also, I find that hilarious, due to half the reason of me having to repeat my arguement is people either didn't understand what I was saying (Living One), or completely twisted around what I said and made it into something else (kenup).

 

Want another example of someone completely misrepresenting what I've said because they don't bother actually reading all my posts?

 

Here it is...

 

I already know who's going to sound more reasonable and mature out of that pile.

my god, you people just don't give up, do you? why do you keep pushing this agenda of yours is beyond me. aren't there games with romances already? why can't you replay those if you like them so much? why try and shove romances into every new game?

 

Please read my posts again, you obviously haven't if that's the conclusion you drew from them.

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Thread pruned a bit. Lets see if we can tone down the personal aggravations before I need to get my hands "dirty" and start singling out individuals for limits on posting capabilities?

 

There should be post limit per topic. People like qloher, Merin, HereticSaint ( whatever is that supposed to mean) are repeating same **** over and over again so it looks as if both sides have arguments.

I wish. Unfortunately the forum software isn't that advanced.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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sorophx, my brother in delectable avatars: It's not enough if every ninth out of ten games is the way these people want it to be. Only once every game is made in their design will they rest, even though they shall remain forever vigilant to make sure that every new game is also created in the same fashion.

Edited by Jasede

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We'll compare who results to ad hominem first, the most and who actually posts constructive, intelligent, well thought out, legitimate posts that don't reek of self importance. I already know who's going to sound more reasonable and mature out of that pile.

You of all people accusing others of passive aggressive behaviour and ad hominem attacks is frankly hilarious.

 

Wow... just, all but that last one? It looks to me like maybe you don't understand what certain terms mean. You really mischaracterized A LOT.

Ok. Merin, even if I accept your points about romances as the best ones on the matter; if you can't see that HereticSaint is just getting aggressive, uses ad hominems all the freaking time, generalizes, is a strawman etc., don't get angry if no one you debate with takes you seriously. He never debates or argues a point. He just attacks the presentation and never argues our points. That's ad hominem.

 

Edit: Finally more members than guests watch this thread! 8)

Edited by kenup

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I already know who's going to sound more reasonable and mature out of that pile.

my god, you people just don't give up, do you? why do you keep pushing this agenda of yours is beyond me. aren't there games with romances already? why can't you replay those if you like them so much? why try and shove romances into every new game?

You are so right.

And since there are already a ton of games out there with magic, I say it should be left out completely too.

While we are at it there are a ton of games with the ability to define the PC´s skill-set through some sort of leveling mechanic, better too get rid of that too. (Plenty of other games for the Codex crowd out there to replay no need to put those RPG elements into this game.)

 

Note this comment is not supposed to be taken seriously and just serves to point out the logic mistake in the post I quoted.

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Look, I think we can all agree I'm a terrible person who should be purged into the fiery pits of hell for all of eternity. Can we get over that now?

 

I think we can also, pretty much all agree that Obsidian has good people writing for them.

 

All I've said (or meant to say, once again) is that I believe ruling out romances because of forum goers is just as bad as ruling it in because of forum goers.

 

Then I said, if they do decide that there shouldn't be any romance or love whatsoever conveyed in the game that I want a logical in game reason why (for the same reason if friendships weren't available to my character). Sorry I want the plot to make logical sense.

Edited by HereticSaint

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I ... I don't get it.

 

I thought I did. I did get it with the Avatar: The Last Airbender fanbase. The series creators, once they established an interesting story and intricate setting, then proceeded to deliberately use romance as a subplot. But they only began developing these romances during the last minute of screentime for the entire series, opting instead to leave them at the "tee hee hee" phase for years of airtime. The fanbase, having been lead to expect romance subplots to accent the main story arc, became understandably frustrated with this snail's pace development and create a mountain of fanfiction, fan art, online discussions, etc not seen in any post Star Wars, pre-Pony fandom (well, there's Naruto, but I refuse to acknowledge the existence of an Orange Jumpsuit Ninja.)

 

I didn't participate or agree, but I got it.

 

But having "romance threads" on a forum for a game like Project: Eternity, and maxing them out every day - that I don't understand.

 

What is it about this project that entices most of its (vocal) backers to discuss romance in lieu of anything else?

 

Project: Eternity is a Role Playing game of the sort that can trace its direct lineage back to at least Ultima, and is the sort of game that has not seen a major studio release since 2003, based on games that for the most part had no or incidental romance content, and is being made by a development team that have gone on record as saying that they don't like writing game romances.

 

So why is this happening, and why is it happening here rather than on, say, with the Double Fine Adventure, or Broken Sword 5, or Wasteland 2?

 

Now that I've left myself open for nothing but flames and censure, I may as well make a few of the strawman arguments myself, just so we can save time and cut to the real issue, whatever it might be.

 

Romances are a beautiful part of life, and you are a heartless dead hunk of flint for not appreciating warmth and tenderness.

 

Yes, I'm heartless and hate love and friendship. That sure explains why I'm the biggest Brony on these boards.

 

 

Twilight_mean_grin_S2E25.png

 

That's not it.

 

I love stories about the human condition that I can emotionally identify with. Two points there: 1. Not all need romance. 2. Games so rarely get these sorts of stories right that I'm far more interested in letting Obsidian try that than divert effort into something they don't want to do.

 

You have a developmental disablity.

 

Rude to assert, trying to change the discourse, and even if I did it doesn't invalidate my question.

 

You are stuck on nostalgia, and want P: E to make all the exact same design decisions as the games you already know.

 

This one is my favorite. When Baldur's Gate was released, I had already been a gamer for a very long time. These are the sorts of games I nostalgia for: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal. As you can see by the sad state of that project, there aren't very many active gamers left from that era. I first heard of Fallout because of the hype surrounding Fallout 3. I have played ARPGs with action elements like Gothic, Vampire: Bloodlines, Drakensang, and Divinity 2 and enjoyed them as well.

 

(from allies) The romancers are people who were only introduced to CRPGs by the Trifecata of Suck that is Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2, and TOR.

 

If you are new to the hobby, then welcome. If those games were your entry into gaming, then you are in for some pleasant surprises: the gameplay that was done tolerably-to-poorly in those titles has been done so much better elsewhere, for you to discover and enjoy.

 

But it only takes a few minutes of research to look at the sort of games this one will be based upon, see the quotes from the developers about how they don't like writing romances, and understand that romances would not save a game that did not already have well done gameplay, setting, and plot elements to begin with.

 

I have more faith in people than that; liking one sort of game doesn't make you intellectually incapable of understanding how other sorts of games work, the way I understand the Avatar fans even though I don't share their gusto for shipping (awesome show, though.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

None of those are the answers, so what is going on, and why is it going on here?

 

derpy_hooves_is_confused____by_blackgryph0n-d424h54.png

 

If the developers are going to have their hands forced into adding a half hearted romance into a game I invested in, I'd at least like to know why.

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It'll be very interesting to see how the devs will handle this romance issue. :mellow:

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"Maybe your grandiose vocabulary is a pathetic compensation for an insufficiency in the nether regions of your anatomy."

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If the devs are smart, they won't get into the quicksand that is party romances. It screws over the whole game. Here is an interesting quote by Mister Chris Avellone:

 

There's been a lot of focus with companion mechanics in terms of like "how do I romance this person?" I'd like to think that there are other types of relationships that you can have with a companion, whether it's friendship, rivalry, hatred, or revenge. Romances end up being an easy target, but I think there's a lot more you can do with companion relationships.

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-10-19-project-eternity-how-chris-avellone-blew-by-4-million-on-kickstarter

 

You tell em, Chris. Leave the romances in the teen novels and the japanese dating sims.

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It'll be very interesting to see how the devs will handle this romance issue. :mellow:

 

Well, obviously. Maybe we should just assume they'll do romances for you people to enjoy but not make the core of the plot revolve around it, and then we can all shut up about this bloody topic.

 

Heh.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Chris Avellone is a hero of the people.

mca.gif

^

This is Chris reading forum requests about romance.

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I find myself compelled to like a brony.

 

It is... un-natural.

 

Chris Avellone is a hero of the people.

mca.gif

^

This is Chris reading forum requests about romance.

 

GtazX.gif

Edited by Crusty
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If the devs are smart, they won't get into the quicksand that is party romances. It screws over the whole game. Here is an interesting quote by Mister Chris Avellone:

 

There's been a lot of focus with companion mechanics in terms of like "how do I romance this person?" I'd like to think that there are other types of relationships that you can have with a companion, whether it's friendship, rivalry, hatred, or revenge. Romances end up being an easy target, but I think there's a lot more you can do with companion relationships.

 

http://www.gamesindu...-on-kickstarter

 

You tell em, Chris. Leave the romances in the teen novels and the japanese dating sims.

You know if this was a bioware RPG, I would have sex with you like there is no tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:w00t:

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I find myself compelled to like a brony.

 

It is... un-natural.

I briefly wanted to as well but there's some lines I won't cross.

Edited by Jasede

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